Photographer
Lallure Photographic
Posts: 2086
Taylors, South Carolina, US
Perhaps your look is simply not what the photog is looking for.
Photographer
nudeXposed
Posts: 1154
Shanghai, Shanghai, China
photographer's loss I'd say... move on. NEXT!
Photographer
Lee_Photography
Posts: 9863
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Should you keep trying? I'm not talking about bugging the crap out of them with weekly messages, I mean like if they post another casting a few months later would you apply again?
Let's say you [model] have been turned down by a photographer that you REALLY want to shoot with and notice they [photographer] post castings every now and then in search of models. It also states in their profile that they are open to TF* shoots for certain models/looks.
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? Simple, ask the photographer point blank, do you think you will ever shoot with me?
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
WIP wrote:
How could any photographer resist you. 
Photographer
Photo Jen B
Posts: 358
Surprise, Arizona, US
J O H N A L L A N wrote:
Answering in a completely general sense I'd say keep responding - however, take a good hard look at the model specs and genre that the photographer is casting for and verify that you and the genres you present in your portfolio fit within those. Otherwise it's just wasting both of your time to submit.
... This is pretty good advice that took me a while to remember myself. Still is something that I don't always follow. However, if asking someone to shoot and I see that I am completely outside of their typical model I will mention it after a comment to them that if they'd ever consider, I'm interested. Then again, the proof of their subject interest is in their port.
Jen
Photographer
Photo Jen B
Posts: 358
Surprise, Arizona, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
...
I gave up contacting them a while ago after they posted in the forums that they never shoot [black] models. They said that tripe?! What a f'n jack*ss!
Screw that jacka** idiot who is not worth an ounce of your attention!
Jen
Photographer
Photo Jen B
Posts: 358
Surprise, Arizona, US
David Stone Imaging wrote:
I used to avoid shooting Black women altogether. Many women from India the same thing. Not a racial thing...but technical. I thought getting the Nikon D800 would give me the dynamic range I needed for dark skin, but there are other things involved...like I still need to get the lighting part dialed in. ... side bar,
I have aD3100 and have shot several Black subjects and (while I am still new to shooting) didn't notice an issue in difference from pale to pigmented skin.
Then again, I generally use natural or ambient lighting.
Jen
Model
Amber West
Posts: 299
Dumfries, Scotland, United Kingdom
If it's a photographer who I know has a rotation of clients, or regularly shoots for new ones (particularly in genres I prefer and feel very confident in: erotica and fetish) then I might try again a couple of times. Or if I happen to notice their profile has changed a lot since I first contacted them. Other than that, no as it's such a well known code for, 'no way will I ever shoot you, but I am attempting to be polite.'. THOUGH SOMETIMES, 'not at this time', really does mean that. When I very first started, there was a photographer I contacted hoping for a trade shoot. Received a fairly abrupt back saying 'NO'(sure he doesn't remember this at all). Fast forward a few years, and he contacted me to book me for a very well paid shoot. 
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Should you keep trying? I'm not talking about bugging the crap out of them with weekly messages, I mean like if they post another casting a few months later would you apply again?
Let's say you [model] have been turned down by a photographer that you REALLY want to shoot with and notice they [photographer] post castings every now and then in search of models. It also states in their profile that they are open to TF* shoots for certain models/looks.
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? When I approach/contact a Model, and she tells me, I'm not doing any work in the Genre you shoot at this time, I usually take that to mean that they're not interested in working with me. I move on.
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? Personally, when I've said that, I meant it. And usually we did end up shooting something and it came out cool as hell.
Unfortunately, people don't often mean what they say and it's hard to know. ("no reply is a reply", "send them your rates when you don't want to shoot" and other such bullshit.)
Photographer
SWFilmpro
Posts: 102
Redondo Beach, California, US
Gianantonio wrote:
Exactly! Now you get it!!
ETA: My girlfriend is Italian. She always complains how Americans are so indirect. I used to disagree with her. But then I started volunteering in a class--English as a foreign language. On my second day of helping out, the teacher had an entire lesson around "How to be indirect." The context was just what you presented in your OP--how to tell someone something they won't want to hear without hurting their feelings...
Now, granted, most of us Americans know the code--at least most of the time. And there are likely regional differences in just how indirect one is.
For example, in most parts of the country, if a guy walked into another guy's garage, and the guy in the garage was using a blowtorch next to an open can of gasoline, the guy walking in would shout "Hey! Don't use a blowtorch near an open can of gasoline!!!!"
In Minnesota, however, the guy walking into the garage would say "Hm... A lot of guys wouldn't use a blowtorch near an open can of gasoline...." Ha ha ha! You think Americans are bad, trying dealing with the Japanese. They make Americans seem super direct. 
Photographer
Pictures of Life
Posts: 792
Spokane, Washington, US
Photo Jen B wrote:
They said that tripe?! What a f'n jack*ss!
Screw that jacka** idiot who is not worth an ounce of your attention!
Jen I had the same reaction when I read this, and typed a similar response, then I looked a little closer at the issue. The rationale and explanation are related to how well the photographer shoots dark skin. He admitted that his skills were not up to getting good skin tones when shooting dark skinned models and that lighter colored skin was much easier. Path of least resistance, shoot with light skinned models. It's not about racism, it's about shooting/lighting skill. I don't like hair lights that much. Blond model, no problem. Model with dark hair, oops, gotta remember a hair light.
BTW, if you look at the POTD contests, the light skinned models vastly outnumber the models with dark skin. Though I think that is sad, I'll admit that the reproduction of skin tones reinforces the idea that shooting dark skinned models takes more skill.
Sorry about the thread jack.
Photographer
fl8fr8m2
Posts: 31
West Hollywood, California, US
GER Photography wrote:
"Not at this time" = "Oh helllllll to the no!" :-))) Bingo.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Most of the time "not at this time" means I don't have any money to pay a model.
So for me it's simply TF. Hopefully my port is worthy of models willing to shoot TF with me.
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Pictures of Life wrote:
I had the same reaction when I read this, and typed a similar response, then I looked a little closer at the issue. The rationale and explanation are related to how well the photographer shoots dark skin. He admitted that his skills were not up to getting good skin tones when shooting dark skinned models and that lighter colored skin was much easier. Path of least resistance, shoot with light skinned models. It's not about racism, it's about shooting/lighting skill. I don't like hair lights that much. Blond model, no problem. Model with dark hair, oops, gotta remember a hair light.
BTW, if you look at the POTD contests, the light skinned models vastly outnumber the models with dark skin. Though I think that is sad, I'll admit that the reproduction of skin tones reinforces the idea that shooting dark skinned models takes more skill.
Sorry about the thread jack. Likewise, my apologies for the thread jack. I agree after reading your reply.
Jen
Photographer
Christian Lockewood
Posts: 39
Houston, Texas, US
I am a full fledged hobby photographer (or GWC if you prefer) employed fulltime in a career other than photography and I frequently face this dilemma albeit from the opposite perspective.
Because I generally compensate models I am contacted regularly and in particular by traveling models. I have been flatered by the quality of many models who have contacted me. Given unlimited time and resources I would be floored to work with the vast majority of them. However, my work schedule and personal circumstances only allow me a handful of opportunities each year.
When I am forced to say "not at this time" when I otherwise would have worked with a model I always ask that they keep me in mind if they happen to travel through my market in the future. So "no" is not always an absolute. There are definitely times when persistence and patience payoff!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
In general... when I tell a model "not at this time", it can have a whole range of meanings and reasons, basically an umbrella term, covering anything from "Oops... I just threw up a little into my mouth seeing your pictures"  to "I love your look, but at the moment, I don't have a client or personal project that I could fit you in, but might be able to do at a later time!", and any shade of reasons in between. However, the "not at this time" reason can easily circumpassed by the model becoming a paying client, which will turn that phrase into "What is your schedule and by when do you need the photos?" I saw cursory mentioning of skin tone, etc.: People who don't want to shoot black skin, because their cameras are not "good enough", should learn about proper exposure settings, lighting and color temperature in their existing cameras.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
GER Photography wrote:
"Not at this time" = "Oh helllllll to the no!" :-))) They could just be like you and tell me I have no skills as a model and that they'd never work with me :-)))
Photographer
J Haggerty
Posts: 1315
Augusta, Georgia, US
When I respond with that it means exactly that. I may not be able to use your look for this particular project and I don't have any others in mind but that could very well change in the future.
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
I would say keep trying until they have the balls to say "No"!
They could genuinely mean they have nothing suitable for you or they are busy.
If they don't want to work with you, its their problem if they don't have the balls to say so.
Have you looked at all their castings, got a feel for their work and suggested an idea for a shoot with you that might interest them?
Sometimes a model gets my attention with an interesting idea.
Model
Nadia Ruslanova
Posts: 465
Tampa, Florida, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Should you keep trying? I'm not talking about bugging the crap out of them with weekly messages, I mean like if they post another casting a few months later would you apply again?
Let's say you [model] have been turned down by a photographer that you REALLY want to shoot with and notice they [photographer] post castings every now and then in search of models. It also states in their profile that they are open to TF* shoots for certain models/looks.
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? After a few times... I flat out ask them if there is any potential to shoot ever, and if there is, what do I need to improve on/fix to be competative
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
Nadia ModelTx wrote:
After a few times... I flat out ask them if there is any potential to shoot ever, and if there is, what do I need to improve on/fix to be competative I've gotten to the point of just asking for a solid yes or no.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
I've gotten to the point of just asking for a solid yes or no. But it's often not that black and white. So you could be forcing a no when 'maybe in the future' may be more accurate.
For instance, whenever I put up an MM casting (not real often), I'll usually get girls that I know I wouldn't be able to shoot with any concept (unless they're paying of course) - but I'll often have 2-4 who are very strong agency signed or agency caliber girls that would be virtually equally good. I can only use one, so I have to pick. Doesn't reflect on how impressed I am with the 2-3 I didn't pick at all. Just could only use one of them.
Photographer
Industrial Images
Posts: 63
Farmington Hills, Michigan, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? I just had to turn someone down today because right now, the types of project set ups and creative things I am doing doesn't match that model's look. Was it a slam to her? No. With Christmas holidays coming up + having a full time day job + getting caught up on some photo edits (I'm a retoucher as well as a photographer), I am not booking anything formal before the end of the year.
I'd say just try emailing them in a few months to see if they have any projects you would be perfect for....it wouldn't be any different if you were with an agency and occasionally dropped them a line to let them know you are still out there. As long as you are nice about it, I don't see why anyone would get upset. I know I wouldn't.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
Should you keep trying? I'm not talking about bugging the crap out of them with weekly messages, I mean like if they post another casting a few months later would you apply again?
Let's say you [model] have been turned down by a photographer that you REALLY want to shoot with and notice they [photographer] post castings every now and then in search of models. It also states in their profile that they are open to TF* shoots for certain models/looks.
Each time you contact them, they respond "No projects fit your look at this time". Would you give up and say NEXT! or keep trying your luck? Screw the casting reply BS, put on your big girl panties, and just flat out PM him/her and speak your peace.
What's the worst that can happen? They'll say no and you'll go on about you life. Simple.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Screw the casting reply BS, put on your big girl panties, and just flat out PM him/her and speak your peace.
What's the worst that can happen? They'll say no and you'll go on about you life. Simple. I PM'd them my travel dates when I would be in their area (Vegas) and I answered their castings if the dates fell around the time I would be in town. Separate occasions, same answer: not at this time.
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
J O H N A L L A N wrote:
But it's often not that black and white. So you could be forcing a no when 'maybe in the future' may be more accurate.
For instance, whenever I put up an MM casting (not real often), I'll usually get girls that I know I wouldn't be able to shoot with any concept (unless they're paying of course) - but I'll often have 2-4 who are very strong agency signed or agency caliber girls that would be virtually equally good. I can only use one, so I have to pick. Doesn't reflect on how impressed I am with the 2-3 I didn't pick at all. Just could only use one of them. If that happens I normally say I really like your look and would love to use you for something else but I have what I need for this project thereby opening up the door.
But my stock answer for I am not a model doesn't have look I am going at this time means I am not interested in shooting them now or ever unless they pony up some cash.
If someone really wants to shoot with a model or photographer that badly offering to pay often changes availability.
I think it's kind of like telling a guy you wouldn't go out with him if he were the last man on earth.
There are easier ways to say it. Not everyone appreciates honesty.
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