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Rude responses...
Hi guys, I'm new to MM, and am just getting the hang of everything. I have received a few messages from photographers for shoots, now I have posted my own Casting Call also, but some are not in response to that. I have had a LOT from nude/erotic/fetish photographers, asking to work with me, now I don't want to assume that is all they want to shoot with me also, but I have tried politely to turn several people down and they ask me "why". 1) - I am not interested personally in shooting nudes 2) - Sometimes you just don't like a photographers work...just as I am sure that photographers turn down models because they too don't like theirs. One photographer was quite abrupt and rude as I read his message and hadn't replied yet, mainly because I had opened his message on my mobile and could not view his profile properly, so waited until I could access it from a computer. He messaged me again saying: "Dear Heather Jayne, I get two kinds of models: 1, who treat sites like this as play things, read messages and don't reply; and 2, models who are serious, reply and the result is great pictures." Now, I make sure I reply to everyone, even if it is just to say thank you but not at this time. I am getting more and more people respond with "why not"? How do you then reply to that without coming across as rude? I am aware the modelling/photography world is very small, especially here in London, and I do not want to give bad impressions of myself. Help! Heather x Dec 22 14 09:15 am Link I sympathise about the not being able to see profiles on your phone (I''m the same way). Can I ask, how long IS it taking you to reply to people? I know some folk to get bent out of shape if you don''t reply within a few hours (which is fine if you''re discussing a shoot which has a deadline - but not if it''s just a general message!), and in which case I am always grateful that they do send me a rude second email as it shows me they are impatient, possibly slightly ''self-important'', and not someone I would want to shoot with. So you are getting people replying asking you to explain yourself, when you have sent them a brief message stating, ''thank you, but not at this time.''? Not really sure what to say about this, I''ve been doing this for quite a few years, and on saying ''no'', other than a handful of rude people snidely replying back telling me how lucky I was they had even looked at my portfolio - I think I''ve only ever maybe had one or two people ask me why (I believe they were also very new photographers). The way I view it is, if they want critique, they should post in the Critique Forum or something similar. It''s not your job to give someone a huge round up of why you don''t feel their work is a good match for you or that they are a crappy photographer. It''s time consuming and you could inadvertently really rub someone the wrong way. So tread carefully. Perhaps, if you do have the time/inclination, and it''s because they shoot levels you don''t do, then ''I do really appreciate you contacting me, but I don''t shoot X. Best wishes….'' If it''s because you really don''t like their portfolio: ''Thanks again for contacting me, but I don''t think our styles would work well together. Best wishes…''. Then draw a line under it. Dec 22 14 09:32 am Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: You don''t. Dec 22 14 09:37 am Link Don''t worry about it. You seem to be conscientious of other people''s feelings which is a good thing. Some of the photographers here are a bit socially awkward and even narcissistic. You cannot please everyone, but kudos to you for being considerate. Dec 22 14 09:37 am Link Amber West wrote: That particular photographer gave me 2.5hours from sending his original message to sending me the follow-up one. I though that was a little over the top, but having read so many posts on here from photographers stating how rude people are for not responding I made sure I replied, even after the rude message. And yes he STILL asked why? But yes, him sending that message made me realise I wouldn''t work with him even if I liked his portfolio! Dec 22 14 10:27 am Link My guidelines: ... Regardless of what people say, you are not obligated to reply. ... Never reply with an unsolicited critique of anyone''s work. Never tell a photographer that his work is not good enough. That is never an excuse. ... Be direct & specific & terse. Don''t elaborate. Be honest. ... You can politely say "not interested". You don''t have to tell anyone "why". You don''t owe anyone an explanation. ... Understand that no matter how good we are, there are people who are better & people who are worse. It''s the model''s job to model, and sometimes that means modeling for people whose work you don''t especially appreciate. (It''s okay to charge $$$ for the people whose work you don''t like). On the other hand -- none of us invented photography and/or modeling -- we all learned from working with people who were better than us. You owe those people a karmic debt that can only be paid back by you working with people who are less skilled than you. Good luck. Dec 22 14 10:27 am Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: 2.5 hours is ridiculous. Complete control freak. Especially if it was only a general message. To be honest I would then block him, as he sounds pretty unreasonable and if you are already getting lots of responses, you don''t need that rude nonsense. Dec 22 14 10:36 am Link You seem very considerate. When you go to your Inbox here and open a message thread, the ones you sent will be marked "read" or "unread." Dec 22 14 10:48 am Link Philip R wrote: Thanks just had a look and seen he has "read" my response! Dec 22 14 10:49 am Link The internet has done huge damage to civil society and basic courtesies, like replying to invitations, are falling by the wayside, so full marks for doing your best to try to keep basic civilities alive. I find that the vast bulk of models do not reply to an invitation. The few that do reply in the negative are always polite and courteous, and I always respond by thanking them for taking the trouble to reply. I have never asked "why not" - I am sure that the model has reasons and I respect them. Dec 22 14 10:58 am Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote a sad note about a few rude photographers. First MM has changed the last nine years .AND... I have noticed....many new members are just GWCs... Many older professionals have just moved on. And ...this is the Internet .....there are always a number of individuals who may be abrupt, callous or even rude with their responses and my advice is to use an important word in the English language ........ "NEXT"...... ignore the rude replies or just block them. There are lots of pleasant MM photographers who I am sure will adore some pics in your portfolio & contact you. Dec 22 14 11:21 am Link One response is adequate. You don''t have to explain yourself. No need to get into a dialogue with someone you're not going to be working with. Anyone who would question a response is probably someone you wouldn't want to be working with anyway. Block them and move on. Dec 22 14 11:26 am Link They may be asking why because they get a lot of turn downs. I see no reason not to let someone know that their work is not good enough. If they are delusional enough not to know already, they should be told. I am not a top notch photographer by any stretch of the imagination and I know it but sadly some people need to be told the truth. Dec 22 14 11:27 am Link Thanks for all your responses guys. Dec 22 14 11:38 am Link Rob Photosby wrote: People seem to think that NOT RESPONDING to messages is a MM or internet thing but it''s not. Prior to the internet, the only way to contact someone was by calling/leaving voice messages or sending snail mail. NOT RESPONDING was prevalent then as well. Dec 22 14 11:41 am Link MDWM wrote: By the way, I am an anthropology student, so I LOVE your response to this! Dec 22 14 11:55 am Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: Well as an anthropology student, I'm sure the cave man had their way of not responding as well. LOL Dec 22 14 12:07 pm Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: A courteous "no, thank you " is probably more than they get from most models. I get a feeling some photographers on Model Mayhem are a bit like telemarketers. If you don''t terminate the conversation abruptly they will nag at you until you relent or you end the call. Dec 22 14 12:10 pm Link Respond and if they get huffy; delete and block. Simple. Dec 22 14 12:21 pm Link Responding and saying, "No, thank you" is sufficient and more than many, many, ... many people will do. They should respond by thanking you for your consideration and taking the time to respond. Nothing more. If they want to know more, copy and paste the link for this thread somewhere convenient and send them the link without further explanation. If they have been at all active in the forums, they should have read a bunch of these threads. However, it also depends on how many doors you want to permanently shut. If you say, "No, thank you, but perhaps another time?  " you will get additional good will. The problem with communication via the internet is that some communication is lost in the short written phrases we use. The tone of the response is left to the interpretation of the reader. The tone impacts the meaning. I would avoid putting down their work. They may be experimenting, they may suck, they may be great. The question is: Are you experienced enough to really judge what is going on and can you predict what they could do for you in the future. When all else fails: block. Dec 22 14 01:22 pm Link 
Model Posts: 6639 MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica Responding to all your messages puts you way ahead of most of the models with profiles here. Keep on doing the right things and you'll open up lots of opportunities to work with some great people. There are some amazing talented and nice people on MM! Don't be afraid to weed out the photographers who seem to prefer to "teach models a lesson" rather than communicate in a way that works for both parties. They don't realize that models field exponentially more emails per day than they do. They fire off a couple emails and stew all day when nobody jumps at their offers. Don't waste your time with nasty people, no matter how good their portfolios are. Good luck to you! Dec 22 14 01:31 pm Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: Block and move on. No need to stress over morons and idiots. Dec 22 14 01:32 pm Link MDWM wrote: Touche! Dec 22 14 02:39 pm Link Block the people who are just plain rude. If people are threatening or aggressive, or otherwise unpleasant, you should CAM them. While their behaviour with you might not be enough to get them banned, others might have complained about them, and it could all add up. You should not have to put up with this sort of behaviour. Dec 22 14 03:21 pm Link The less you say, the better. No matter what you say there will be those who will take great offense and attack you. I personally usually just say, "No thank you, I am not interested". I avoid giving specifics because that starts a neverending litany of emails where people get butthurt. If it''s a simple matter of you not doing nudes then say so. Dec 22 14 06:37 pm Link I still don''t understand how people are having a hard time viewing this site on their phones. What kind of phone do you have that can''t handle this really simple site? Serious question. Dec 23 14 05:17 am Link Isis22 wrote: +1000 Dec 23 14 05:54 am Link People who ask "why" are idiots. .No is no.. There''s no benefit in arguing the point or trying to change your mind. The are likely NOT professionals and need to get on with their petty lives. Dec 23 14 06:06 am Link If they ask "why", know that you are not obligated to tell them or even continue the heated conversation. Dec 23 14 06:21 am Link To coin a phrase, you probably "dodged a bullet" as someone as snarky as that you wouldn''t want to work with anyways, let alone associate with. It likely would have been terrible chemistry on set. I also model too, but if that individual took your non-immediate-response as some sort of personal insult, I would think them to be prone to more impatient and self-centered conduct. Personally, I attempt to feed people their own medicine when the situation calls for it: As a sample, my response to such rudeness would have likely been: ------------------------------------------- "Dear Anonymous Photographer, I get two kinds of Photographers: 1, who are rude and treat models as subservient play things, send messages and demand replies; and 2, Photographers who aren't as arrogant as you present yourself and act with a measure of professionalism, to whom I reply and the result is: great pictures." Dec 23 14 11:40 am Link Put important details in your casting (like you don''t shoot nudes) and if photographers aren''t reading them properly it''s on them. If that''s what you are already doing then don''t worry; you are doing fine. It''s on them. I think everyone deserves an answer and I answer everyone, so I recommend you do the same, but not everyone will agree with that approach. Either way, don't spend more mental energy on it than it's worth. Dec 23 14 11:44 am Link Honestly beyond telling a photographer or whoever you''re not interested you have absolutely 0 obligation to explain why you don''t want to work with them. I think for someone to even ask is a bit unnecessary and somewhat rude. It puts you on the spot and just allows people to get offended by your reasoning or to try and convince you to change your mind. Don''t respond to people asking you why you don''t want to shoot with them and if they''re persistent block them, they''re not being professional in my opinion. Dec 23 14 01:12 pm Link Dont bother being nice. If you want to cut through all the crap and get rid of the whiny fuckers, just say: ''fuck off, or I will get my huge, angry boyfriend to come round and hit you in the face with the edge of a spade''. It''s the only thing they understand. Dec 23 14 01:56 pm Link TMG wrote: Dont do that. Hopefully, no one needs to tell you not to do that. Dec 23 14 02:43 pm Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: Just remember that when you finally get called "...rude, ill-mannered, and unprofessional..." you should take it as a compliment from that particular doucheweasel. Dec 23 14 02:49 pm Link Hunter GWPB wrote: Nah, she might as well. There are quite a few really good photographers knocking around these sites, but mostly it''s talentless old (and sometimes not so old) pricks who think the expenditures on a brand new state of the art camera and lens combo makes them important and serious enough to get the respect of young girls, in order that out of that respect they drop their knickers. And they get pissed off - humph humph, splutter, splutter - when their work is seen as not worth a second glance. Dec 23 14 03:34 pm Link TMG wrote: It isnt that I disagree with your attitude toward photographers. Some of the people on here are nothing short of jerks and should have no contact with polite human beings. I highly recommend that she doesnt make terroristic threats or threaten assault, much less than to do so in writing. Even in jest. Dec 23 14 03:43 pm Link Hunter GWPB wrote: 1) If the real King of Prussia sees this, you are fucked. Dec 23 14 03:49 pm Link IAmHeatherJayne wrote: Just a simple, "I''m unavailable" should do the trick. If they come back again and again, continue with the same for as long as your patience lasts. Dec 23 14 03:57 pm Link TMG wrote: Well that escalated quickly. Dec 23 14 03:58 pm Link |
