Jason Felip wrote:
I hate the way my emails read when I ask a model for her rates.  I would appreciate seeing what other photographers write and how they word their emails so I can make my inquiries a bit less awkward.



Thanks

Arguably you don't need to know the models rates in the first round of communication. You could keep it really simple and just ask "Would you like to shoot?"

If they want to and aren't willing to do it as a trade, they will include their rates in their reply.

Airballin wrote:
You can only offend me or sound awkward asking me to work for you for free.

Since you are not a photographer I will explain the TFP, TFT, TFCD concept.  Neither side is really working for "free".  The photographer brings his equipment and knowledge and the model brings her looks, experience, and usually the clothing. They BOTH get usable (hopefully) photographs for their book, portfolio, or profile. 

Finished images have a value, they would have otherwise had to pay money to get them.  Therefore since the model receives something of value (s)he is not working for "free".

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Dont ask rates !!!
Make offer what you are willing to spend

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I never ask for rates.  I offer what a model is worth to me for a particular shoot.

Images by MR wrote:
If I was to hire a model for a project I'd never ask them for rates but rather tell them what I'm willing to pay.  They
can take it or leave it.

This

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Dont ask rates !!!
Make offer what you are willing to spend
Not accepted...Move on to next model

Yep, exactly.  This is what I do. I have my budget, thus take it or leave it. 

Regarding those VIP models I'd discussed rates with who wanted $200 an hour, or no less than $300 or such, I have found other models who looked JUST AS GOOD willing to take 1/2 to 1/3 of those demands.  I think there is a "fun" factor, to use their adjective, involved in my style.  Most certainly it's not most models' cup of tea but to the ones that were interested, "fun." The monetary compensation might just have been merely gravy...

One of the models I'd worked with said what I paid her is about 1/3 what she makes from regular photography shoots.  But like some of the others, she said my goofy video shoots were more fun than regular still photo shoots.  And she said she'd love to shoot again.  For her comment, I gave her an extra $20 tip at the end of the shoot.

One of those VIP types that were out of my budget range, I did respond that once I get a larger piggy bank with a good paint design I would get back to her because she has a great look for my genre.  She gave a and said, "Thank you for understanding, I'd love to work with you."

Jason Felip wrote:
Thanks for the excellent responses.  Very enlightening.  I realize now I have been going about it all wrong.  Instead of asking for rates I will say what I am willing to pay and move on if it isn't enough.  So glad I asked this. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

Cheers

As a model, I always prefer this.

Vector One Photography wrote:
Since you are not a photographer I will explain the TFP, TFT, TFCD concept.  Neither side is really working for "free".  The photographer brings his equipment and knowledge and the model brings her looks, experience, and usually the clothing. They BOTH get usable (hopefully) photographs for their book, portfolio, or profile. 

Finished images have a value, they would have otherwise had to pay money to get them.  Therefore since the model receives something of value (s)he is not working for "free".

No I am not a photographer, but I do pretend to be one on MM like most people here. As I take all my own photos. Good, bad or whatever you want to call them.
But I can say this,  I am a full time artist. It's the only job I have and the only job I ever had.
My response was not about TF.  Who mentioned anything about TF shoots anywhere in the thread? The OP was asking about sounding awkward asking for rates. And my response was "You can never sound awkward asking for rates". Asking people how much they charge or offering to pay them instantly shows that you respect what they do and you understand what they do has value, even if you can't afford to pay what they might be asking.

Contrary to what you may think about what I do, it is actually work. And I do get asked frequently "to work for free" and not for the benefit of improving ones portfolio.

Ashley Marie Howard wrote:
As I model I would rather be asked if I am interested in shooting for x amount of compensation versus being asked what my rates are. I hate being asked mainly because I don't know what the photographers budget may be and I don't want to sour a potentially good work relationship by quoting a rate that may be too high for the photographers budget. I would much rather a photographer just quote what they are willing to pay for the shoot at the beginning and then I can decide if it is worth the payment to accept the offer to work with them.

Of course you do.  9 times out of 10 the photographer will offer you more than you might be willing to do the shoot for.  This is the trick of all the traveling models.  Trust me they are not willing to help a photographer .

Look if you are being paid than ou know the budget. .... Then state a price lower than your budget.  If then the model accepts then you are in good shape.  If need be you can negotiate to your budgeted limit.

If you are not being paid then offer trade.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:

Of course you do.  9 times out of 10 the photographer will offer you more than you might be willing to do the shoot for.  This is the trick of all the traveling models.  Trust me they are not willing to help a photographer .

Look if you are being paid than ou know the budget. .... Then state a price lower than your budget.  If then the model accepts then you are in good shape.  If need be you can negotiate to your budgeted limit.

If you are not being paid then offer trade.

It's not their responsibility to help a photographer. We don't need to trust you on that, no one would ever expect that would happen.

Jason Felip wrote:
Thanks for the excellent responses.  Very enlightening.  I realize now I have been going about it all wrong.  Instead of asking for rates I will say what I am willing to pay and move on if it isn't enough.  So glad I asked this. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

Cheers

Not so fast. That's not always the best advice. It also depends how badly you want to shoot a particular model. Negotiation is a process, it's not a take it or leave it situation.

I usually ask a model her rates because I know it causes most model's head to spin. Some models who work a lot have set rates that they command historically but I'm talking about other models who don't shoot all that often. Once they respond with a number, if it's less than I would have offered,  .. I book it. If it's more .. I say thanks for the information but unfortunately, I can only afford X ..would you consider shooting for X? Then she can decide if it's worth shooting or not.

I find that if I toss out a number first, I most always over pay. It's a tough economy out there, work on finding a number you both will agree on.

Ashley Marie Howard wrote:
As I model I would rather be asked if I am interested in shooting for x amount of compensation versus being asked what my rates are. I hate being asked mainly because I don't know what the photographers budget may be and I don't want to sour a potentially good work relationship by quoting a rate that may be too high for the photographers budget. I would much rather a photographer just quote what they are willing to pay for the shoot at the beginning and then I can decide if it is worth the payment to accept the offer to work with them.

Very informative. I thank you, Victoria, and Danielle for some honest answers.
It seems I too have been going about it wrong by asking rates and never hiring anyone because their rates were way beyond my model fee budget (being on an artist's budget).

Julia Francesca  wrote:
I like knowing exactly the nature of the shoot you want to hire me for. Also you can make a quote. After all, it is YOUR budget!

I will always bid on a job when asked, and I will gladly work within a photographer’s budget.

ontherocks wrote:
nothing wrong with inquiring about their rate. if they normally do TF then they'll probably start a forum thread on how much they are worth.

or you could just say "i'd like to shoot with you some time" and see how they respond. you might get silence, you might get an offer for TF or you might get their rates.

or just set a budget and say "this gig will pay $100 for 2 hours of work"

This is a good way to approach this, and I generally respond positively to requests like this.

I once worked for a radio broadcasting group, and when we discussed advertising with potential clients some would balk, saying “Your rates are too high.” Our answer was that our rates were set by our advertisiers.

And that was largely true. We had an idea of what we thought our value was, but our actual rate was that sweet spot between what our fantasy rate was and what the abject cheapskates could afford to pay. Once we settled on that rate that became our defacto price, and that rate was ratified by regular and repeated sales in the marketplace.

The market determines the rate. If the supplier wants to earn a higher rate then he must provide a higher quality product to be able to enter a higher-priced marketplace. This is why Fords do not sell for the price of Rolls-Royces.

I do have a rate, and my rate has been determined by what other clients have paid me. I am worth that amount not because I say so but because the market has told me so with their hard-earned dollars. If I am asked for my rates then this is the basis for the answer I give.

Not everyone will value my services as much as the other clients who have already hired me, not everyone will be able to afford me, and not everyone will even have a clue as to what the norm is for the services they require. That’s OK. All providers and clients will eventually find their appropriate budgetary match.

That said, I am generally hired after having an offer extended to me without a request for rates, and apparently those who extend me those offers tend to value my services as much as I and the rest of the market do. I suspect that those few who have asked me my rates (and subsequently did not hire me) were hoping that the answer was “Free”.

Ashley Marie Howard wrote:
As I model I would rather be asked if I am interested in shooting for x amount of compensation versus being asked what my rates are. I hate being asked mainly because I don't know what the photographers budget may be and I don't want to sour a potentially good work relationship by quoting a rate that may be too high for the photographers budget. I would much rather a photographer just quote what they are willing to pay for the shoot at the beginning and then I can decide if it is worth the payment to accept the offer to work with them.

+1
I agree!

Magic Image  Pin Up wrote:
I come out straight and forward and ask: Ok Doll Face how much to shoot them tomatoes and your kishter and while I am add it if I shoot the Beaver will Mr. Kleaver get upset. But the real scoop is I don't have the doe to pay ya so will you take a couple of snap shots and we can call it even. Later Doll.

Sounds like my last relationship

Cherrystone wrote:

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Dont ask rates !!!
Make offer what you are willing to spend

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I never ask for rates.  I offer what a model is worth to me for a particular shoot.

This

+1 to all

Ashley Marie Howard wrote:
As I model I would rather be asked if I am interested in shooting for x amount of compensation versus being asked what my rates are. I hate being asked mainly because I don't know what the photographers budget may be and I don't want to sour a potentially good work relationship by quoting a rate that may be too high for the photographers budget. I would much rather a photographer just quote what they are willing to pay for the shoot at the beginning and then I can decide if it is worth the payment to accept the offer to work with them.

So if you decide not to work with the photographer based on what they can afford to pay you or if you quote a rate that is too high and so the photographer passes.  Isn't the end result the same thing?

Of course it is. 

That is why you should find young tallents models and shoot TF.  If it is a client paid shoot then hire an agency model

Victoria Elle wrote:

As a model, I always prefer this.

Sure you and other models do, hoping that they will quote a rate higher than you would settle for.