DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Nikon never mentions a Sony Sensor in their machines..until it was broken down and looked inside...And then they admitted..it was designed by Nikon, but produced by Sony!! LOL

It is amazing with the instant internet..that Sony last year...announced they had developed a new 50mp Full Frame Sensor...and Today..Canon announces their new machines..has a 50mp sensor...hummm...lol

Let's not get wrapped up in the Sony angle. Sony isn't getting it done, so they're taking manufacturing jobs from other shops. Canon, and Nikon, are the top dogs, and Sony can't touch them. Sony has a very strong low end presence, but can't get in the ring on the professional level. These aren't "Sony sensors", they're just made in Sony's house, because Sony isn't using it for anything else.

Don't forget that Canon made a FF sensor with 102MP. Like... 3 years ago! They aren't going to produce it, but the R&D department made one, just to push the limits, and show that they had their shit wired tight.

Bottom line, what do the pictures look like?

By the way, Canon emphatically denies Sony has an at all to do with this sensor. "...completely in house..."

photoimager wrote:
Do not expect any 'humble pie eating' from the Canon users who trashed the introduction of the D800 as having 'too many pixels' ( for some things it does )

I expect them to be touting the camera very quickly, which is fine.

Interestingly, if it is a Sony sensor, we might well see a Sony version or a Nikon version on the market by the time this camera is actually available.  If the Sony sensor is different than the Canon sensor, meaning that Canon really did design their own, then it is even more likely that either Nikon, Sony or both have one of their own in the works.

One has to wonder why Canon introduced the camera five months before it will be available.  They have done that before.  They've announced a product so they could say they were the "first," when others came out sooner or very soon after.

Instinct Images wrote:
Not a single word about a Sony sensor. The rumors, at least the most recent ones, were pretty spot on though.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Nikon never mentions a Sony Sensor in their machines..until it was broken down and looked inside...And then they admitted..it was designed by Nikon, but produced by Sony!! LOL

It is amazing with the instant internet..that Sony last year...announced they had developed a new 50mp Full Frame Sensor...and Today..Canon announces their new machines..has a 50mp sensor...hummm...lol

The question has been answered at Canon Rumors over who made the sensor in the 5Ds:

Chuck also answers the question about who manufactures the sensor over at Shutterbug, and it is indeed made by Canon. Contrary to some nagging rumors over the past few months.

That makes it very likely that Sony, Nikon or both have a camera in the works using the Sony sensor.

What is interesting is that he confirms that the dynamic range will be similar to the 5D III and the ISO capability similar to the 7D II.  The latter doesn't surprise me since the pixel density and size are about the same.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:

Let's not get wrapped up in the Sony angle. Sony isn't getting it done, so they're taking manufacturing jobs from other shops. Canon, and Nikon, are the top dogs, and Sony can't touch them. Sony has a very strong low end presence, but can't get in the ring on the professional level. These aren't "Sony sensors", they're just made in Sony's house, because Sony isn't using it for anything else.

Don't forget that Canon made a FF sensor with 102MP. Like... 3 years ago! They aren't going to produce it, but the R&D department made one, just to push the limits, and show that they had their shit wired tight.

Bottom line, what do the pictures look like?

By the way, Canon emphatically denies Sony has an at all to do with this sensor. "...completely in house..."

And you might be right....Because the earlier reviews..the guys who have had the pre production copies..have said the Dynamic Range is not better than the 5Dlll 22mp.  So this might not be that Sony 50mp. Remember what I always say...never trust those damn Rumor Sites!!! lol

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Remember what I always say...never trust those damn Rumor Sites!!! lol

My turn for an LOL, but thumbs up to you. 

Shot By Adam wrote:

Wrong. I have many commercial clients I shoot for. I can assure you, when I tell them I'm shooting at 36 megapixels, they care.

Many, or even most people in some cases, care about things they have no idea why. Just because they heard a lot that it matters, usually from advertise and aspiring amateur photographers showing off their cameras.

Many people have asked if I have a big camera. Because for them big camera means good photography ans therefore good photographer. They have no idea why but they care.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Instinct Images wrote:
Not a single word about a Sony sensor. The rumors, at least the most recent ones, were pretty spot on though.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Nikon never mentions a Sony Sensor in their machines..until it was broken down and looked inside...And then they admitted..it was designed by Nikon, but produced by Sony!! LOL

It is amazing with the instant internet..that Sony last year...announced they had developed a new 50mp Full Frame Sensor...and Today..Canon announces their new machines..has a 50mp sensor...hummm...lol

The question has been answered at Canon Rumors over who made the sensor in the 5Ds:


That makes it very likely that Sony, Nikon or both have a camera in the works using the Sony sensor.

What is interesting is that he confirms that the dynamic range will be similar to the 5D III and the ISO capability similar to the 7D II.  The latter doesn't surprise me since the pixel density and size are about the same.

x


Do you all know what this means, That Canon still does not know how to make a quality Sensor. DXO MARK has always rated Canon Sensors well below the Sony and Nikon Sensors. Wow. For months I heard that Sony has a 50mp..which they do have. But Canon went to in house to develop their own.

So Sony will release their A9/A7rll  along with Nikon's D860/D900/D500.  Oh My...Canon is back to square one! How Nice.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
WOW...I have told you all...Never Trust those Damn Rumor Sites!!!  I have always insistent that we wait and see the True facts before we jump the gun! 

But on a serious note...I am so happy this is NOT a Sony Sensor in those Canon Cameras...That makes my day. I can't wait to see the new line up from Sony and Nikon.

For once we agree.  I think this makes it very interesting.

Steve Young Photos wrote:
I can only imagine what the files would be like with a 53 MP camera.

Still tiny compared to drum scanned 4x5 images

Marin Photography NYC wrote:
Dynamic range is over rated so are pixels.

Dynamic range is most certainly not overrated. It enabled you to have a lot more flexibility in how you light and shoot and image and a lot of additional flexibility in post. Dynamic range is a large part of why Arri cameras still dominate the high end cinema industry in spite of being 2.5K instead of 4K or more.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Underwhelming.  Though improvements in sensor quality have allowed pixel density to increase and still have excellent IQ and DR, the proof of the pudding, as a number of respondents have suggest, will be in the actual images that the sensor is capable of rendering. 

If Canon did, indeed, produce this new sensor "In House", then I'll have to be convinced.  Glad I moved to Nikon a couple of years back.  I was impressed from my own testing comparing the 800 and the 810, that the D810, sans the AA filter, resulted in a visible increase in image resolution and slightly less noise at high ISO, it isn't enough to make me leap on that bandwagon just yet.  Since I just sold my crop sensor Canon that was converted to IR, I'm now in the market for a Nikon body to convert.  There are some really good buys right now in D610's, so that's looking like the path for me.

It's good that you like it. A lot of people have commented in a snarky manner that they have abandoned Canon for Nikon, so this is aimed at all of them...

It's not about the body, which will evolve anyway. It's about the compatibility of the whole system. Canon can take all of the EOS lenses ever made, and the first EOS body can use the newest EOS lens as expected. Nikon has so many different systems they have put into their lenses, that it's a headache to try to keep them all straight. The Df was supposed to take them all, but even THAT camera, that was MADE for that purpose, STILL has issues.

The lenses are the key anyway, and they are useless without a good body. The entire system is what needs to be considered when making a decision, not which camp you wanna play in. The photographer works alone for the most part, so considering what other people think of your choice of camera demonstrates priorities incompatible with professional photography.

just sayin'

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Nikon never mentions a Sony Sensor in their machines..until it was broken down and looked inside...And then they admitted..it was designed by Nikon, but produced by Sony!! LOL

It is amazing with the instant internet..that Sony last year...announced they had developed a new 50mp Full Frame Sensor...and Today..Canon announces their new machines..has a 50mp sensor...hummm...lol

Canon isn't Nikon. Canon is a significantly bigger company with way more resources. There's nothing special about building a 50mp sensor. This new sensor has the same pixel pitch as the 7D Mark II. Could it have been a Sony built sensor? Sure. But apparently it's not.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
This was Canon's Preemtive Strike. Canon is not releasing these two cameras not until June. Meanwhile at Sony they will be releasing very soon, before Canon releases their cameras...The Sony A9/A7rll  with their own 50mp. And Sony is also providing Nikon with that same sensor for their new D500/D860/D900.

That's nice. Why don't you start a thread to discuss it instead of constantly harping about Sony in this thread???

Instinct Images wrote:

That's nice. Why don't you start a thread to discuss it instead of constantly harping about Sony in this thread???

Ok...I will help you out...One of the Rumors being spun around for a few months...that since Sony already produced a 50mp Sensor...And then Canon on CR and CW...was going to announce a new couple of cameras with a 50mp....Get it now?

Thanks ....

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:

Ok...I will help you out...One of the Rumors being spun around for a few months...that since Sony already produced a 50mp Sensor...And then Canon on CR and CW...was going to announce a new couple of cameras with a 50mp....Get it now?

Thanks ....

Yes I get it - you were wrong despite being insistent that the new Canon would sport a Sony built sensor.

Instinct Images wrote:

That's nice. Why don't you start a thread to discuss it instead of constantly harping about Sony in this thread???

I was thinking the same thing. Especially since your port demonstrates that you mostly take pictures that could be accomplished with a cell phone about as efficiently. I'm not saying they're bad or anything, just that they don't require the tech necessary for the sort of photography these other cameras are meant for.

I have found that to be true of a lot of Sony fans. Sony makes some great cameras, with a lot of auto functions. Tough to take specialized shots with them, but they're amazing at what they're designed for.

...selling cameras to amateurs.

Instinct Images wrote:
Yes I get it - you were wrong despite being insistent that the new Canon would sport a Sony built sensor.

That is why you should never trust them Rumor sites!


...and by the way Sony does provide Canon a sensor on their GX7.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:

That is why you should never trust them Rumor sites!


...and by the way Sony does provide Canon a sensor on their GX7.

...and Canon produces the 5Ds, which is what this thread is about. Not who makes the sensor for a camera so lowend, that I had to look it up just to find out it was lower than the rebel.

You're posting off topic. Do you have anything to say about the 5Ds that will increase our knowledge, and demonstrate understanding of the system?

Bad Dog Photog wrote:

...and Canon produces the 5Ds, which is what this thread is about. Not who makes the sensor for a camera so lowend, that I had to look it up just to find out it was lower than the rebel.

You're posting off topic. Do you have anything to say about the 5Ds that will increase our knowledge, and demonstrate understanding of the system?

Yes..I do...Oh My Lanta!

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Underwhelming.  Though improvements in sensor quality have allowed pixel density to increase and still have excellent IQ and DR, the proof of the pudding, as a number of respondents have suggest, will be in the actual images that the sensor is capable of rendering. 

If Canon did, indeed, produce this new sensor "In House", then I'll have to be convinced.  Glad I moved to Nikon a couple of years back.  I was impressed from my own testing comparing the 800 and the 810, that the D810, sans the AA filter, resulted in a visible increase in image resolution and slightly less noise at high ISO, it isn't enough to make me leap on that bandwagon just yet.  Since I just sold my crop sensor Canon that was converted to IR, I'm now in the market for a Nikon body to convert.  There are some really good buys right now in D610's, so that's looking like the path for me.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:
It's good that you like it. A lot of people have commented in a snarky manner that they have abandoned Canon for Nikon, so this is aimed at all of them...

It's not about the body, which will evolve anyway. It's about the compatibility of the whole system. Canon can take all of the EOS lenses ever made, and the first EOS body can use the newest EOS lens as expected. Nikon has so many different systems they have put into their lenses, that it's a headache to try to keep them all straight. The Df was supposed to take them all, but even THAT camera, that was MADE for that purpose, STILL has issues.

The lenses are the key anyway, and they are useless without a good body. The entire system is what needs to be considered when making a decision, not which camp you wanna play in. The photographer works alone for the most part, so considering what other people think of your choice of camera demonstrates priorities incompatible with professional photography.

just sayin'

I think you may have misread my post.  I am one of the people that did abandon Canon for Nikon.  And it is Canon's announcement about their new sensor (whoever may have made it) that has me underwhelmed and skeptical.  Hopefully, I will be pleasantly surprised by a great body, with a great sensor and a great processor.  Time and actual images will tell.  But, for me, I'm solidly in the Nikon camp.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:
It's not about the body, which will evolve anyway. It's about the compatibility of the whole system. Canon can take all of the EOS lenses ever made, and the first EOS body can use the newest EOS lens as expected. Nikon has so many different systems they have put into their lenses, that it's a headache to try to keep them all straight. The Df was supposed to take them all, but even THAT camera, that was MADE for that purpose, STILL has issues.

You have this the wrong way around. With the Nikon bodies you can fit almost any Nikon lens from the 1959 onto any Nikon body ( some exceptions on a very few very specialised lenses due to mirror clearance ). DX lenses can be used on FX bodies and vice versa provided you allow for the fall-off / vignetting if doing the former. Yes, to have AF you need an AF lens and some bottom end bodies need the AF motor in the lens. Compare that to Canon's range where EF-S lenses are not able to be attached to a 'full frame' body and the older FD mount lenses cannot be directly mounted onto EOS bodies.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:
The lenses are the key anyway, and they are useless without a good body. The entire system is what needs to be considered when making a decision, not which camp you wanna play in.

Agreed although a quality lens on a cheap body will, image quality wise, outperform a quality lens on a basic body. it is also not just the specifications but how well it actually works for you. The user-interface and ergonomics. I am regularly involved in meet-ups and with one of the makes being discussed it is easy to locate required functions and there is consistency across models. With the other make, even people who have a camera of that make can struggle to find the right place in the menus or the right symbol of button to press in order to change the most basic of settings.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:

I was thinking the same thing. Especially since your port demonstrates that you mostly take pictures that could be accomplished with a cell phone about as efficiently. I'm not saying they're bad or anything, just that they don't require the tech necessary for the sort of photography these other cameras are meant for.

I have found that to be true of a lot of Sony fans. Sony makes some great cameras, with a lot of auto functions. Tough to take specialized shots with them, but they're amazing at what they're designed for.

...selling cameras to amateurs.

No need to start insulting other photographer's portfolios!

Steve Young Photos wrote:
I can only imagine what the files would be like with a 53 MP camera.

Rakesh Malik wrote:
Still tiny compared to drum scanned 4x5 images

True. It's all about trade-offs.

A 4x5 can't shoot at 5fps, or video.

You picks your tools and you gets what you wants.

Instinct Images wrote:

No need to start insulting other photographer's portfolios!

Aww, see? I wasn't. I even said, "I'm not saying they're bad or anything, just that they don't require the tech necessary for the sort of photography these other cameras are meant for."

Go ahead, read it again. You'll see. Just because someone shoots something that doesn't require expensive gear, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Landscape for example... Using a FF sensor is considered a waste by many landscape photographers. Does that mean Landscape is shitty? Of course not!

I think you might have read into that comment something more reflective of yourself than me. Ya think?

photoimager wrote:
I do not know why there is any fuss about who makes the sensor as long as they can make it to the desired specifications set by the designers of the sensor.

One word: competition.
Don't matter who made the sensor but matter who made the project.
Canon made the project so the sensor is Canon regardless if they are produced by Sony.
Nikon, Pentax, ecc. instead use a Sony sensor, the result are comparable, so they can't say they make different project.

In this test, we've shot our low-light test scene at an exposure 5EV below our standard low-light Raw exposure, then push 5EV in Adobe Camera Raw. This illustrates the latitude of each cameras' Raw files, which is also intimately linked to the camera's dynamic range.

Jason Haven wrote:
It's pretty clear that this sort of camera is meant for landscape shooters, or studio work (with the intent being a large output)...

But I don't really see the point for landscape if it lacks dynamic range improvements... and from what DPReview said, it has the same (somewhat disappointing) dynamic range as the 5DIII.

Sadly, I have to agree.  If the 50 megapixels was for landscape photographers, more dynamic range is clearly an overlooked priority.

On the other hand, after the DP reviewer lamented that the DR and ISO performance was unimpressive.... he wrote something to the effect of "but wow, 50 megapixels". 

The engineering required to create all things for all people probably doesn't yet exist.
The compromises required to bring something as complex as a high end Nikon or Canon camera body to market boggle the mind.

Since I have been collecting Canon glass for 15 years, I am hoping the next iteration from the Canon chip engineers will catch up, or edge past the Sony/Nikon team's dynamic range accomplishments.  Except for the loss of advantages potentially gained by reason of competition, I suppose I wouldn't care if Canon used a Sony sensor, if that means my glass collection would gain access to more DR.

I don't shoot for a living, so in my case, this is all about pushing limits for fun.

R_Marquez wrote:
First samples released by Canon:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/

I guess no a single lens that was used was able to give all the detail from the 50 megapixel sensor.
But we should wait dxomark for the precise measures.

Bad Dog Photog wrote:

Aww, see? I wasn't. I even said, "I'm not saying they're bad or anything, just that they don't require the tech necessary for the sort of photography these other cameras are meant for."

Go ahead, read it again. You'll see. Just because someone shoots something that doesn't require expensive gear, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Landscape for example... Using a FF sensor is considered a waste by many landscape photographers. Does that mean Landscape is shitty? Of course not!

I think you might have read into that comment something more reflective of yourself than me. Ya think?

You missed the rules here on M.M. No critique of the person's work unless it's asked by them. In a subtle way, you did that.