Derek Ridgers wrote:

Your sarcasm doesn’t really help your argument.  Originally you claimed -


I was just trying  to make the point that sometimes it wasn't a positive factor.  In the genres I mentioned, those artists almost always succeeded despite their education rather than because of it.

To say that all artists eventually need the assistance of gallerists, curators, publishers, journalists, gallery owners, art patrons etc. that have themselves been educated is undoubtedly true.  But it’s an argument so tenuous as to have no real meaning. 

No one with any sense would argue against education and I wasn’t trying to do that.

Thanks for the clarification.  You can't say someone became critically acclaimed without the educated critics.  It doesn't make sense.

Naughty Ties wrote:
Erotic fetish.

Oh wait...I already do it full time so I guess I'm good. 

really and you make living doing that wow nice

Derek Ridgers wrote:

Unless you are only ever going to shoot small bands in small clubs, it will be a very frustrating experience.

Photographing big bands in big arenas you normally get the first three songs.  Sometimes only the first song.  During which time the musicians purposely don’t go near the photographers.

Often the bands PR person will tell you exactly where to stand and you’ll be in that spot with many others, all with their elbows out.

You’ll often be 40 feet away with TV cameras and security personnel ranged in front of you.

Then, after your allotted time, the PR person or the security lead you out.  Often not out the front but out the back and at an event like Glastonbury it can take quite a while to get around to the front.  By which time you’ll have missed seeing half the show.

All this and you'll most probably have to sign all your rights away too.

Good luck with all that.  You really, really need to like the music.

I'm aware that this is the case at many big venues. I remember one of my first concerts in Tijuana, Mexico in which this was the case. However I chose to shoot from the VIP section which was away from the stage & I used my zoom lens. After about the 3rd song, sure enough, all the photogs that were in the photographers' pit were being led out while I was still capturing some cool shots from my perch.

Derek Ridgers wrote:

Unless you are only ever going to shoot small bands in small clubs, it will be a very frustrating experience.

Photographing big bands in big arenas you normally get the first three songs.  Sometimes only the first song.  During which time the musicians purposely don’t go near the photographers.

Often the bands PR person will tell you exactly where to stand and you’ll be in that spot with many others, all with their elbows out.

You’ll often be 40 feet away with TV cameras and security personnel ranged in front of you.

Then, after your allotted time, the PR person or the security lead you out.  Often not out the front but out the back and at an event like Glastonbury it can take quite a while to get around to the front.  By which time you’ll have missed seeing half the show.

All this and you'll most probably have to sign all your rights away too.

Good luck with all that.  You really, really need to like the music.

Sounds like you've done it a few times. That's the typical scenario for 99% of the photographers shooting concerts and music festivals, but there are some better gigs to be had but they are very few and far between. Danny Clinch gets access to almost anywhere anytime at Bonnaroo, even shooting onstage at times. That's the job I want, Danny Clinch's gig. I hope he becomes a full-time harmonica player and recommends me as his replacement.

I was asked to shoot an EDM music festival as a house photographer. I hope it leads to something bigger and better!

Glenn C
http://glennwc.tumblr.com

Glamour by Glenn wrote:
Sounds like you've done it a few times.

Yes, I was a full time rock photographer for 25 years. 

I stopped doing it about ten years ago when I became too old to know who any of the new bands were and I couldn’t shoot one frame without having to sign some sort of contract first. 

By 2008, illegal file sharing and the worldwide recession hit the record companies (so there was less money sloshing around) and the internet did for many of the great music magazines. So most of my generation of rock photographers also stopped.

It was fun while it lasted.

But I know there are plenty of photographers who still do it.  Many of them quite active on Model Mayhem.

Deep Visions wrote:
I'm aware that this is the case at many big venues. I remember one of my first concerts in Tijuana, Mexico in which this was the case. However I chose to shoot from the VIP section which was away from the stage & I used my zoom lens. After about the 3rd song, sure enough, all the photogs that were in the photographers' pit were being led out while I was still capturing some cool shots from my perch.

If you can sneak in past security with a decent camera and a long lens, and they don't see you when you're in there, this is a way to do it. 

But it’s often not the ideal perspective.  You really want to be down the front, in the middle.  As Glenn says, you can shoot bands from the stage but this isn’t really the ideal perspective either.  I’ve seen some great shots of Freddie Mercury taken from the back of the stage, so there are exceptions.  In that case you really do want someone who commands a stage like Freddie used to do and not just stand there immobile like some.

Solas wrote:
pffft...you guys are cheating ! it's no longer just a dream if you're doing it !

Disagree!

My dream - find a niche publishing company that really NEEDS me.  One that produces & sells helpful, inspiring books to their specific market for a reasonable price.  Ideally I'd end up owning a share of the company.  I'd draw a really decent salary, have 4-6 weeks of paid vacation, health - disability - life insurance that would be prohibitive on my own due to recurring cancers, a good mix of studio & location - still & video - "product" & fashion, have an air-conditioned studio, do some national & international assignments, and have enough flexibility to be on hand for doctor appointments, school plays, field trips & teacher conferences while my kids grow up.

=====

Realized since 1993, and it's still my dream job!

Marcio Faustino wrote:
I don't have a dream job. my dream is to be free.

Free to do what?

Phoenix Digital Image wrote:

Free to do what?

Free to do nothing when I am in the mood. To sleep as much as I want. To grow my own food and see them growing. To walk and explore landscapes whenever and as much as I want, going to nowhere in particular without worring about tomorrow, or worrying about going early to bed, or shave, or have time to eat, and so own.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
If you can sneak in past security with a decent camera and a long lens, and they don't see you when you're in there, this is a way to do it. 

But it’s often not the ideal perspective.  You really want to be down the front, in the middle.  As Glenn says, you can shoot bands from the stage but this isn’t really the ideal perspective either.  I’ve seen some great shots of Freddie Mercury taken from the back of the stage, so there are exceptions.  In that case you really do want someone who commands a stage like Freddie used to do and not just stand there immobile like some.

At another concert in Tijuana, Mexico, I was given a backstage pass that was only valid when my friends' band was onstage, at which point I was given full access to roam onstage & snap photos of the band, & I got many great ones. Once they were done, I was exiled back into the audience. There was no photographers' pit at this particular venue, & no way in hell was I gonna elbow my way to the front & risk damaging my gear. Nonetheless I still captured many sick shots from afar with my zoom lens.

A-M-P wrote:
Traveling Fashion Photographer

What is that? I've never heard of one.

Dan Howell wrote:

What is that? I've never heard of one.

Norman Parkinson?

A-M-P wrote:
... Celebrity Photographer

Once upon a time that must have been a fabulous job.  Eve Arnold photographing Marilyn Monroe for instance.

But nowadays, as many others on MM may confirm, it’s not a fabulous job at all.  It can mean an endless round of setting up your stuff in hotel rooms and waiting all day for your three allotted minutes.

But it can be much, much worse than that. 

I have a photographer friend who lives here in London.  He got hired to shoot a famous rock band with an iconic female singer.  He was flown out to LA and put up in a plush hotel and asked to be ready to go at a moments notice.  After which the band simply never called him.  They just left him there to stew.  He was there for about a month, in a constant state of nearly readiness.  At the end of the month, my friend virtually had a nervous breakdown.  This whole episode didn’t help his career at all and it took him a while to recover.

This was back in the day when record companies had big budgets.  And this sort of thing wouldn’t happen to today, I don’t suppose.  But other equally crazy things do go on.

I could write a small book on this topic.  Some day I just might.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
Once upon a time that must have been a fabulous job.  Eve Arnold photographing Marilyn Monroe for instance.

But nowadays, as many others on MM may confirm, it’s not a fabulous job at all.  It can mean an endless round of setting up your stuff in hotel rooms and waiting all day for your three allotted minutes.

But it can be much, much worse than that. 

I have a photographer friend who lives here in London.  He got hired to shoot a famous rock band with an iconic female singer.  He was flown out to LA and put up in a plush hotel and asked to be ready to go at a moments notice.  After which the band simply never called him.  They just left him there to stew.  He was there for about a month, in a constant state of nearly readiness.  At the end of the month, my friend virtually had a nervous breakdown.  This whole episode didn’t help his career at all and it took him a while to recover.

This was back in the day when record companies had big budgets.  And this sort of thing wouldn’t happen to today, I don’t suppose.  But other equally crazy things do go on.

I could write a small book on this topic.  Some day I just might.

I was supposed to work with the former Prime Minister at the Presidential Palace.  I have worked with several high-ranking officials, but this one was the highest.  They give you a two-day window, and tell you to be ready to shoot on a 1/2 hour notice. 

They didn't call in a couple days, and with no word, I accepted an assignment in Egypt.  They called while I was gone, and were really upset I wasn't waiting for them... LOL.  Well, if they had called in the agreed-upon timeline...

Anyway, I am doing my dream job.  I do have to say, it is seriously fulfilling but also a lot of work.  In the next year, I am negotiating contracts for Turkey, Iran, Cuda, India, and perhaps Algeria.  We'll see what pans out. LOL>

Derek Ridgers wrote:

This was back in the day when record companies had big budgets.  And this sort of thing wouldn’t happen to today, I don’t suppose.  But other equally crazy things do go on.

I could write a small book on this topic.  Some day I just might.

Please do!!

Derek Ridgers wrote:

Norman Parkinson?

not from what I could tell.

location photographer and traveling photographer are not the same thing. I don't see too many photographers who bounce between markets. Some may service 2 or 3 markets, but I don't see that as a traveling photographer.

Dan Howell wrote:
location photographer and traveling photographer are not the same thing.

Agreed but that wasn't the question you asked.

TenBee Photography wrote:
Wildlife Photographer

I agree. That would be my dream job too! I love parties!!!!!!

Peter House wrote:
I want to be the rockstar photographer who experiences the highest success and then it all spirals out of control and ends up with an E! True Hollywood Story.

I'd prefer to be the "photographer of Rockstars" (and other musicians). What I can't figure out is why most of them still employ the ancient "3 songs and your out" rule. Since they make most of their money from concerts, you'd figure they would want as much coverage as they could get.