Sausage69 wrote:
...my photos end up just looking like snapshots...

What separates compelling imagery from "snapshots"?  Basically a strong visual illusion of three dimensional space... photographs are two dimensional therefore through the use of perspective inducing compositional elements they have the ability to transcend into a graphic illusion which conveys three dimensional space...

What are the primary compositional elements to achieve this?
Converging parallels... The Last Supper is a late 15th-century mural painting by Leonardo da Vinci in the refectory of the Convent of Santa Maria delle Grazie is a sterling example... As Virtual Studio suggests, study the works of the great masters... they got it right...
S-Curves This classic compositional element is oft found in advertising art...
Diagonal lines Rising diagonals convey a feeling of movement and are oft used to draw a viewer's eye into an image...

These are but a few of over a dozen compositional elements commonly used to create a 3D illusion...

That said, the "Elements of Art" are classically defined as components of a work of art that can be isolated and defined. Typical enumerations are
Line
Shape and form
Space
Color
Texture

Each and every one of these parameters are complex and oft require diligent study to master... As an honor student have you considered a class in art theory? While it might not be biology it may serve your photographic endeavors well...

Sausage69 wrote:
...Even with controlled lighting, they come across as contrived and clinically posed...

As the creative in responsible charge on a project it is your responsibility to direct naive talent effectively.  Yes the easy answer is Casting for tenured thespians who can emote and assume whatever persona the narrative calls for...  Where to find? Agency talent works well here...

Sausage69 wrote:
I know being exposed to more work like music videos and exhibitions would go towards developing this sense in you, but generally, is there any other way to develop it?

Joe McNally's first job in photography was with a newspaper... After weeks of frustrating results Joe asked the senior editor "How can I do more interesting photos" the reply which he has followed ever since... Get yourself in front of more interesting subjects...  Just a thought...

Sausage69 wrote:
Any ideas where they get inspiration for things like this from?

Actually I find this gifted artist image to be rather inspirational... Kudos to the entire team here...

Best advice? Assist top commercial shooters in your market... This has been my path and I've benefited immensely from the aforementioned...

final thoughts? patience grasshopper... 

Hope this helps...
All the best on your journey...

J E W E T T wrote:
Get models that can emote.

I agree with this.

Also, find a stylist and good MUAH person too, and let them interject some of their own ideas too.  Too much of your own self-direction becomes posed, imho.

As to the emote part, I've always thought that a really good model was born that way.  I have two nieces who went to the big-dollar modeling schools and while that helped their poise and self-confidence, it may have only boosted their on-camera skills 10%.  They were never 90% going in, maybe 30% on a good day, so what they got out of the school and its classes still would not make them 100%.

I've maybe had three that were stand-outs in 50 years, and initial meeting was like "No way will this turn out any good."  However, and for whatever odd reason, I feel I could have left the set and let the camera run on its intervalometer and all shots would have turned out great.  They are just in another league.  One of the MUAH's I work with out of LA told me on a recent fashion shoot with 10 pro agency models she had to make-up, only one stood so far out ahead of the others which make the client blow up and chew out the others "To do what Mary is doing, damn it!" - and they never got it down to whatever she was bringing or doing either, no matter how much the lady went off yelling at them.

And don't try an copy what others do.  Too much becomes a cliche or a rut.  Even watching music videos got to be boring enough with so many cliches that VH1 and MTV dropped the music video scene from their 24/7 format.

Good luck!

Sausage69 wrote:
I'm interested in knowing because most of my photos end up just looking like snapshots.
Even with controlled lighting, they come across as contrived and clinically posed.

I know being exposed to more work like music videos and exhibitions would go towards developing this sense in you, but generally, is there any other way to develop it?

For example, photos like this :



Any ideas where they get inspiration for things like this from?

It begins and ends with your own noggin.

Sausage69 wrote:
I'm interested in knowing because most of my photos end up just looking like snapshots.
Even with controlled lighting, they come across as contrived and clinically posed.

I know being exposed to more work like music videos and exhibitions would go towards developing this sense in you, but generally, is there any other way to develop it?

For example, photos like this :



Any ideas where they get inspiration for things like this from?

It begins and ends with your own noggin.

Virtual Studio wrote:
Go to the Art (like paintings from the past) section of your local library - start looking through things people have done in the past. It will whack your composition skills through the roof.

Singapore has a decent contemporary art scene http://theculturetrip.com/asia/singapor … singapore/ - visit - participate. Talk to local artists and learn what they are trying to say.

/thread

Solas wrote:
You need to have vision.

I've been lucky enough to hold some seminars in the past with photographers.  I've always brought that up.  I don't care if you stand on your head to create a shot.  You have to know what you want "usually" before getting there.

For me?  It's a preconceived idea of what I want, and widdle away to get to that end point.

Sausage69 wrote:
Thank you for all the suggestions. I agree that having a powerful idea (from a vivid imagination) is a first step, thing is this is not something I have inherently due to the way I have been brought up, the things I studied, and so on. The internet has helped greatly in giving exposure to works from around the world though; 20 years ago who would have guessed this exposure would be available on-demand.

I've seen a lot of nice artsy ideas here on MM, but many of them while having great concepts are spoiled for me because of the lighting. Many of them have this HDR-like look. I'm right now very much influenced by the Japanese style where many prefer to use natural light or very subdued controlled lighting, while adding interest with props or set design.

Some examples here:
http://sumida340.blog.fc2.com/
http://yasphoto.blog111.fc2.com/

I really admire these guys, and even met the second guy at an event, although I couldn't really understand where he draws inspiration from as I can't speak the language very well.

Also heard that understanding the process of how the old masters like Rembrandt came up with their simple yet powerful portraits would help.

Obviously you are determined to improve your photographic eye and not looking to cheat your way to make artistic photographs. That's the first step.
From experience, the only thing I can suggest is to STUDY these artists and others and figure out their process, their lighting technique, maybe experiment by copying their works privately. It may take you a few weeks or maybe years but doing that will spawn inspiration to borrow parts from every photographer to eventually make your own vision. A vision that comes from you only but it takes a lot of time and practice to find your niche and vision... and in my case hundreds of rolls of film and years of reviewing magazines and books when I was a kid figuring it all out.

Solas wrote:
You need to have vision. When you have that, the technical details are just... that. The vision is where the art comes from. Essentially vision is like, mission objectives of the image. What are you trying to say ? What are you trying to convey? How can you use the techniques you know to do that, or do you have to learn more to do it?
It helps of course, to have a good model, a good list of resources like a set designer, a clothing designer.. but you don't need all that. Work within your vision.

Robb Mann wrote:
Art comes from within. No one can tell YOU how to create art.

Unless you are cynical and shallow, then just underexpose and keep key elements in soft focus.

I don't think you can be taught talent, or creativity, or good taste.  Either it's inside you or it's not.  You can perfect talent but you can't learn it.  You can improve your technical knowledge by education (including looking at others work), experience, and much trial and error (just go shoot).

You look at something or hear something and a vision comes into your head, an idea, or a concept and then you need the technical ability to record it using your camera.  One without the other is useless, just look around MM. There are some great ideas but no ability, there is some great technical shots but no feeling, no impact. If your thoughts are blah, your photos will be blah.

P.S. what is "artsy" ?  And maybe the problem is aiming for artsy.   Aim for good, don't worry about artsy.

J E W E T T wrote:
Get models that can emote.

or better yet, get a photographer that can emote.

Sausage69 wrote:
I'm interested in knowing because most of my photos end up just looking like snapshots.
Even with controlled lighting, they come across as contrived and clinically posed.

I know being exposed to more work like music videos and exhibitions would go towards developing this sense in you, but generally, is there any other way to develop it?

For example, photos like this :



Any ideas where they get inspiration for things like this from?

Artsy is not a feeling.

Happy, sad, joy, loss, fear, gluttony, loneliness, boredom etc are feelings.


Once you can focus on actual feelings, then you can focus on putting them in the photo. Then when you've done it over and over you'll feel compelled to do it in new and different ways and that's where your "artsy" feeling will come from.

Art Silva wrote:
You can copy... let me say that again;
You can copy technique and style but you can't copy finished work... That's what I wanted to make clear.

When I was in high school, I would copy or try to replicate the techniques of top fashion, top sports and news photojournalists and art photographers by studying their work in magazines and books until I can adopt parts of what I learned into my own style which took a long time to mold.
I wanted to see what they saw, I wanted to capture in a way they did, I wanted to find out what made them tick and how they chose certain compositions and what thought process lead them to shoot it that way.

You can't Copy art but you can taste and digest art to form your own perception and open your mind and your own style... it's called inspiration!

I think you should try to copy.  It is only one step but it is helpful.  When I was a kid I would copy everything.  I loved comics and would copy those the best.  It will give you confidence later on when you learn one technique you will over apply it but that is ok.   When your techniques grow your confidence and creativity will grow.  Copy artists that you love.  Also copy pieces that you love.