Photos by Stan wrote:
Strange that people are saying that they have never heard of this ...
It is a common thing when I am looking on Model Mayhem in my area that the model does not even know they have a profile on here ....

YOU however have no Idea that you are talking to the photographer ( acting as sole manager )

So don't think you are paying a photographer as an escort .. it is just the manager / agents cut from you
( and he will take a cut of the model also )

It's against the rules for models to be "managed" by photographers on this site.  So I would be very upset if I found I were not communicating directly with the model.  I'd CAM them ... Click "help" and then "Contact-A-Mod"  ... it's that easy.  No need to put up with it!  This is NOT standard practice! 

I communicate multiple ways before I shoot with models and that includes talking on the phone.  It helps reduce the chances of models flaking, and also of sluggo's being involved.  Also I've never hired through an agency.   No way am I going through a sluggo or "manager!"

Photos by Stan wrote:
Strange that people are saying that they have never heard of this ...
It is a common thing when I am looking on Model Mayhem in my area that the model does not even know they have a profile on here ....

YOU however have no Idea that you are talking to the photographer ( acting as sole manager )

So don't think you are paying a photographer as an escort .. it is just the manager / agents cut from you
( and he will take a cut of the model also )

Really!!  Managers are not allowed on Model Mayhem.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
It's against the rules for models to be "managed" by photographers on this site.  So I would be very upset if I found I were not communicating directly with the model.  I'd CAM them ... Click "help" and then "Contact-A-Mod"  ... it's that easy.  No need to put up with it!  This is NOT standard practice! 

I communicate multiple ways before I shoot with models and that includes talking on the phone.  It helps reduce the chances of models flaking, and also of sluggo's being involved.  Also I've never hired through an agency.   No way am I going through a sluggo or "manager!"

Not meaning to hijack this thread ...
in a PERFECT world people follow the rules ...
but in a world ruled by money , my single account means ZERO against the approx. 80+ accounts run by 2 or 3  local "sluggos" ( pretty sure that is a low count on my part )
- I was told if the model did not make the claim , my word meant NOTHING -
and they won't , talked with a few in person , one of which would not believe "he' had set up a page even after she was shown her profile on here !

Photos by Stan wrote:

Not meaning to hijack this thread ...
in a PERFECT world people follow the rules ...
but in a world ruled by money , my single account means ZERO against the approx. 80+ accounts run by 2 or 3  local "sluggos" ( pretty sure that is a low count on my part )
- I was told if the model did not make the claim , my word meant NOTHING -
and they won't , talked with a few in person , one of which would not believe "he' had set up a page even after she was shown her profile on here !

I have worked with many models on MM and never had this happen.

Photos by Stan wrote:
Not meaning to hijack this thread ...
in a PERFECT world people follow the rules ...
but in a world ruled by money , my single account means ZERO against the approx. 80+ accounts run by 2 or 3  local "sluggos" ( pretty sure that is a low count on my part )
- I was told if the model did not make the claim , my word meant NOTHING -
and they won't , talked with a few in person , one of which would not believe "he' had set up a page even after she was shown her profile on here !

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I have worked with many models on MM and never had this happen.

Same here.  I find those numbers hard to believe.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Same here.  I find those numbers hard to believe.

I wouldn't say this happens a lot, but I have seen 'clusters' of (male, though that's probably irrelevant) model profiles around various towns and cities in the UK that are strikingly similar and have pics obviously taken by the same photographers.  Are these profiles being 'managed' by the same person?

On the other hand, though, I would add that I have been asked by people who have modelled for me if I could get them more work, and I have done so, using various means.  If I had thought MM was a worthwhile place to get paid work, I would have probably encouraged the models to set up profiles on MM, but the models were the sort of people that have no interest in the internet, and I knew I would end up acting as an intermediary, passing messages on and maybe setting up shoots, which I didn't want to do.

Nate Beck wrote:
From a model's perspective, if I learned a photographer I'd worked with was pulling these kinds of shenanigans, I'd be pissed. The ones I've worked with have been super supportive with referrals and helpful in networking. It's too bad for the models, but sounds like the consensus is the photographer is out of line here.

^This.

That guy sounds like a douche.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Same here.  I find those numbers hard to believe.

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OK ... as I have not "done a search" in a while .. and I have been on here for years ....
I just did a quick search ( 100 mile radius of me )
out of 902 possible models ... there are only 15 showing still active ... so quite a few have gone away
( that is for just one guy .. as I said, I know of 3 in my area alone )

BUT , I will still stand by my numbers as an overall from 2-3 for the last say ... 8 years total

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, why the need to be rude?  Like I said, everyone has the right to request any term or condition he or she wants, and I have the right to accept, decline, or make a counteroffer.

Shot By Adam wrote:
Sorry, but sometimes some people just need to be taken down a notch or two.

Fair enough, but why is that your job?  What qualifies you to do this job?

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I have never heard this before and would not agree to it.

He does not own the models!

Photos by Stan wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK ... as I have not "done a search" in a while .. and I have been on here for years ....
I just did a quick search ( 100 mile radius of me )
out of 902 possible models ... there are only 15 showing still active ... so quite a few have gone away
( that is for just one guy .. as I said, I know of 3 in my area alone )

BUT , I will still stand by my numbers as an overall from 2-3 for the last say ... 8 years total

Only 15 still active? Wow! All I can say is that the models I shoot with are far more active on Facebook, even if they have a profile here.  Every serious model I know has multiple networking going on with profiles on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram, as well as on here.  I'm not into working with models who wont speak with me on the phone either.  I'm old school.  How does anyone think we did it before the Internet?

Cwen  wrote:

^This.

That guy sounds like a douche.

I dont answer any inquiries from photographers wanting work with my non MM models.  And I would never allow a photographer to escort a model... Nor would I pay them.

I find my models they can find their own and they can get on this site and message the model all by themselves.

For me to recommend a model to another photographer I would have to be impressed with the photographers work. Sadly I am impressed by so few.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:

I dont answer any inquiries from photographers wanting work with my non MM models.  And I would never allow a photographer to escort a model... Nor would I pay them.

I find my models they can find their own and they can get on this site and message the model all by themselves.

For me to recommend a model to another photographer I would have to be impressed with the photographers work. Sadly I am impressed by so few.

I won't recommend a photographer I don't know, but I'll definitely pass on a potential opportunity to a model I've worked with so they can decide for themselves whether they want to look into it.  Deciding I'm not impressed with someone's work so I'm going to withhold their interest from the model doesn't sound much different than making the model's decisions for them, just as a manager would.

Nate Beck wrote:
From a model's perspective, if I learned a photographer I'd worked with was pulling these kinds of shenanigans, I'd be pissed. The ones I've worked with have been super supportive with referrals and helpful in networking. It's too bad for the models, but sounds like the consensus is the photographer is out of line here.

Agreed - it's really a bit slimy - @OP, I'd not waste another second with this guy.

MoRina wrote:
I model for free, but my cat charges 100/hr.

And worth every penny, OMG, that face!

That cat is awesome.

MoRina wrote:

But we're a package deal!

Fine, If that's the way it has to be.

I'll pay the hundred bucks for one pic of your cat on top of my car. You'll be in the background all sweaty looking like you just washed my car. After you wash my car, and dry it.

Oh, and the cat has to smile!

Natural Light on Location wrote:

Fine, If that's the way it has to be.

I'll pay the hundred bucks for one pic of your cat on top of my car. You'll be in the background all sweaty looking like you just washed my car. After you wash my car, and dry it.

Oh, and the cat has to smile!

No deal!  I don't wash cars.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

So, why the need to be rude?  Like I said, everyone has the right to request any term or condition he or she wants, and I have the right to accept, decline, or make a counteroffer.  There is no need to respond in a childish way just because you don't like their offer.  Being rude is counterproductive.  I assume that every model I meet will in turn talk with every other model in the world, and I am firm, polite, and respectful at all time, even when (or especially when) I am declining their offer.  I truly don't understand why anyone trying to be a professional would be mean when someone asks for what they want.

There are limits to giving someone the benefit of the doubt.  No one makes this kind of demand thinking it's a benign request.  If it's plausible that someone is ignorant, I might agree with you, but extending that courtesy to blatant jackasses trying to take advantage of you is beyond the call of politeness.

- Phil H - wrote:

This is simply not true. We do actively investigate all claims of managed accounts and where we suspect an account is managed, there is little hesitation in shutting it down, along with the account of the person doing the "managing".

Wherever possible, we do try and help the model assume control of her own account and where this is achieved, the account can be reactivated. If we can't do that, then the account stays shut down.

I would therefore strongly urge you to report any accounts where you suspect it is not the model themselves, running/administering the account and we'll be happy to look into it.

I believe you are trying to do some damage control here by saying that ...
I was never told anything close to that
I was told that if I could not get the model themselves to make the complaint .. nothing ... I repeat nothing ... would be done by this websize on just my word alone

BTHPhoto wrote:

I won't recommend a photographer I don't know, but I'll definitely pass on a potential opportunity to a model I've worked with so they can decide for themselves whether they want to look into it.  Deciding I'm not impressed with someone's work so I'm going to withhold their interest from the model doesn't sound much different than making the model's decisions for them, just as a manager would.

What BTHPhoto said.  My sentiments exactly.

Photos by Stan wrote:

I believe you are trying to do some damage control here by saying that ...
I was never told anything close to that
I was told that if I could not get the model themselves to make the complaint .. nothing ... I repeat nothing ... would be done by this websize on just my word alone

Where were you told this?

MoRina wrote:

No deal!  I don't wash cars.

Honey Hush.

I am trying to negotiate with the cat, and get my car washed.

Photos by Stan wrote:

Not meaning to hijack this thread ...
in a PERFECT world people follow the rules ...
but in a world ruled by money , my single account means ZERO against the approx. 80+ accounts run by 2 or 3  local "sluggos" ( pretty sure that is a low count on my part )
- I was told if the model did not make the claim , my word meant NOTHING -
and they won't , talked with a few in person , one of which would not believe "he' had set up a page even after she was shown her profile on here !

And also breaking the law in most states, even if the "model" agrees to such a slugo arrangement most states require licensing for being a agent.

Anyhow to the OP; not normal and something to stay far away from.  New models are born everyday and this arrangement is red flags, warning flares, and smoke signals

Koryn wrote:
I don't get it at all.

People need to put their big girl panties on and go to work like mature adults do...alone.

RandallFreytag wrote:
Now, now, I get that some models like to have escorts with them - and what's always of paramount importance to me is that the models are supremely comfortable.  So as long as the escorts aren't interfering with the normal course of the shoot, then I have no problem whatsoever.

But I can't imagine that I'd be comfortable with another photographer standing behind my while I'm shooting.

I want the models I shoot with to be comfortable with me, without bringing someone to threaten me.  But, beyond that, I'm certainly not PAYING for such nonsense.

And, in response to your original situation; I'd love to have gotten that message. The laughs I, and the models I shoot with, would get from it would be fabulous.