Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
Photographer
Natural Light on Location
Posts: 252
Fort Worth, Texas, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
Sadly, I wish this were true but it's not. With some models, flaking is in their DNA. Looking back over the last 10 years, I'd say that the majority of models who have flaked on me were being paid...some being paid really well.
Two years ago I was booked by a client to take photos in their booth and do on-site printing as a lead-gen and to get people in their booth at a large motorcycle bikefest. They put a motorcycle in their booth and they wanted a model to sit on the bike and take photos with people. They were being paid $75/hour to literally do nothing but sit on a bike and smile 20-30 times an hour. The event was four days long...half day on day 1, full days on day 2 and 3, and a half day on day 4. They wanted to have two different models...one working on day 1 and 2, the other on 3 and 4. The models would be working a total of 10 hours each. So basically, they sit on their ass, do nothing, and make $750 "working" for 2 days.
I suggested to the client a list of models I've worked with in the past and they balked at them all. They wanted models a bit more "strippery" looking. So I ran some casting calls and found two they approved of. One had just posed in Penthouse, the other had a somewhat impressive resume. I sent out a few emails to try and vet them a bit and was unsuccessful, but the client really wanted them. Each model was told to arrive 30 minutes before they were scheduled to work in the booth to get dressed, put on makeup, etc. I checked-in with both models the day before the event and everything was a go.
Day 1: Model 1: Scheduled to arrive at 10:30 a.m. and start working at 11.
10:45 no show.
11 a.m. no show. I called...rang and rang...went to voicemail.
11:15 a.m. no show
11:30 a.m. no show. I called again and now she answers. "I'm sorry, my alarm didn't go off and I'm on the way". I asked how far away she was and she told me less than 2 miles.
11:45 a.m. no show. I call and she answers. "I'm pulling in right now!"
The location of the event was at Cashman Field here in Las Vegas. Their convention hall is at the bottom of a really big hill and parking was a good 10 minute walk, up a hill that is about 5 flights of stairs. I had to get her a badge to get in so I walk up to the top of the hill and wait at the security check-in. She's nowhere to be seen. I call her...no answer. She calls me back 5 minutes later and tells me she's on the way, got lost, blah blah blah. I told her if she's not in the parking lot in 30 seconds to not bother. I wait 10 more minutes and she's not there. I walk back down the hill, go to the booth, and she calls me to tell me she's arrived. I told her to go fuck herself and that she was fired. For the next hour she blows my phone up leaving me nasty messages. Turns out she was in California partying the week prior and drove back to Vegas early just for this gig and really needed the money blah blah blah. I couldn't care less. If she needed the job that bad, she would have shown up on time, just like every other responsible person does with their jobs.
The client was furious over this, but not at me. Well, it turns out, there was a 3rd model working for them...one of the models off my list. She was getting paid a bit less but was only there to hand out fliers in the booth. They asked if she wanted to do the gig with the motorcycle and she was super excited to do it. She jumped right in, did an amazing job, got paid more money, and made a killing in tips, which she never once asked for. Guys just loved giving her money. I told her we did have another model booked for the last 2 days and she was fine with that, but she was absolutely awesome for the first two days...
![https://www.shotbyadam.com/images/bikefestday1.jpg]()
On the night of the 2nd day, I called the second model to confirm. She said she was all good and then started complaining about the pay...which we agreed upon 2 weeks earlier. "The money is good but I'd feel a lot better if I could sell autographs in the booth or if we could setup a tip jar or something like that." I told her that we agreed upon a rate and if people gave her a tip, that's cool, but she was not to hustle for them.
Day 3. Pretty much a repeat of Day 1. I'll spare you the ugly details but the model was an hour late showing up. When she eventually answered her phone, and I asked where she was, she told me that she was still doing her hair and was waiting for her boyfriend to pick her up. ETA, about 1 hour. So she thought it would be OK to show up 2 hours late...this was the Penthouse model. I told her, like I did the first model, that she was fired and to go fuck herself. We used the fill-in model again and like the first two days, she was awesome.
My point being is that sometimes, even when you pay models, they still flake. I wish that weren't true, but it most certainly is. Said it before, I'll say it again. The Money has nothing to do with it.
I watched two Models, one male one female, no show a gig one Saturday. They both had done test shoots for it and were approved by the client. They knew what the pay was, and what time to be where. I was helping the Director with the casting, that was my sole involvement in the scenario.
Neither one showed up, neither one answered their cell phones, and when finally contacted later. He said, he forgot, and she said she had to babysit her sisters baby. LOL
I always like the part in these threads where the white knights mount their steeds and say things like, "you must have been Dodgy, or it wasn't legit, or you did something wrong, or the location was sketchy, or you weren't paying enough."
Those things are just excuses, the no shows use later, to excuse their behavior.
For the record. They were being hired to be in a local tv commercial for a local car dealer to act like a couple buying a car.
Thirty Second commercial, probably three hours total, fully clothed, with hair and make up provided, shot at the new car dealers. Is that legit enough?
The pay was $2,500.00 (each) plus residuals, and it was through an Agency.
My point is, some want to work and will make it no matter what. Some will flake, no matter what.
Both said they were sorry, and we could try again next Saturday, if I could reschedule them! ROFLMAO!
Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
Natural Light on Location wrote:
Both said they were sorry, and we could try again next Saturday, if I could reschedule them! ROFLMAO! Well don't leave us in supsense, how did they do the next week? lol!
Photographer
Michael DBA Expressions
Posts: 3730
Lynchburg, Virginia, US
DespayreFX wrote:
Well don't leave us in supsense, how did they do the next week? lol! Somehow I think nobody knows because nobody cared.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
If you book client work with freelance models from sites like these its a roll of the dice. This is why advertising agencies use professional agencies. Agencies usually vet their models. Part of the testing process is to gauge how reliable the models are. If a model doesn't show for a shoot you can call the agency who will send a second choice. Freelance models have no one to answer to but themselves. I as a photographer have limited ways to know how reliable they are. The truth is the vast majority of work on MM is TF (unpaid) or low paid shoots. I would say in general that paying models a fair wage for their time helps insure they show up. If its a time sensitive job then consider picking your models up.
Some may not want that but its an idea. I was at the Midwest Beauty Show where I spoke to a salon owner from NY. He told me that he bought his models with him and paid for their hotel. My guess to insure that he'd have some. This was in answer to why not grab some from MM or Craigslist. However models are offered work based on their look not their credit score or loan repayment history or degree status.
Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
DespayreFX wrote:
Well don't leave us in supsense, how did they do the next week? lol! Michael DBA Expressions wrote:
Somehow I think nobody knows because nobody cared. Hahah, also, cuz there's zero chance in hell they let those 2 clowns come back the following week? 
Photographer
Natural Light on Location
Posts: 252
Fort Worth, Texas, US
DespayreFX wrote:
DespayreFX wrote:
Well don't leave us in supsense, how did they do the next week? lol! Hahah, also, cuz there's zero chance in hell they let those 2 clowns come back the following week? We have a winner...
I never heard from him again, but she called me all that summer begging for any kind of work, LOL
Um, I'm busy right now, I'll get back to you....
Photographer
3 Leaves Left Imaging
Posts: 139
Hoboken, New Jersey, US
This has been the most entertaining thread, I loved the granny video. LMFAO! On Thursday a model that I was aware of and have wanted to shoot contacted me saying that she was in town and available to shoot. WIthin a half hr of receiving her message I replied saying great, are you available to shoot this Sunday? It's been three days and she still has not read my message. I had heard that she is wacky and now that has been verified. I will cross her off my list of people I'd love to work with. I am so used to flaky behavior here that I more or less don't expect shoots to happen. 
Photographer
REMOVED
Posts: 1546
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
You obviously missed the point.
You obviously missed the point too. The point for me is that I will never again attempt sarcasm on these condescending
and humorless forums.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Fotopia wrote:
The point for me is that I will never again attempt sarcasm on these condensing, and humorless forums. Sarcasm is a skill and a talent. Some people have it, some people do not. Perhaps you are the latter.
Photographer
REMOVED
Posts: 1546
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
Sarcasm is a skill and a talent. Some people have it, some people do not. Perhaps you are the latter. Oh yeah, the word is condescending, this snotty attitude, personal criticism of those completely unknown to you is an aspect of why this site has such a crap reputation among real world media professionals.
I have far more positive and professional sites available to me for self promotion where I'll be from now on.
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 4810
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
DespayreFX wrote:
... that's super-annoying, and right up there with "Grandma died" (again), for me. Home come so many models are so sexist?
Are their grandfathers immortal or do they just not give a toss if Grandpa kicks the bucket?
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Fotopia wrote:
Oh yeah, the word is condescending, Looks like the pot just met the kettle.
Photographer
REMOVED
Posts: 1546
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I just consider the source and go on to more meaningful pursuits, why can't you just let it go Adam?
Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
DespayreFX wrote:
... that's super-annoying, and right up there with "Grandma died" (again), for me. Rob Photosby wrote:
Home come so many models are so sexist?
Are their grandfathers immortal or do they just not give a toss if Grandpa kicks the bucket? The latter. I only know 3 grandpas that are immortal... on an unrelated note, I'm pretty sure both my parents have decided to outlive me, just to screw me out of any inheritance, but that's just my working theory.
Photographer
rmcapturing
Posts: 4859
San Francisco, California, US
One thing that helps is learning how to move on. I've had girls who don't get back to me a week or days later after when we message back and forth and they end up being reliable. Sometimes it's the opposite. Just move on, don't take it personal.
Model
Jen B E
Posts: 213
Hesperia, California, US
NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
No one has ever flaked on me. Okay, there was that one time but I don't count it because she was from Craigslist and we did eventually shoot.
BUT.
I've started to notice (because I'm slow on the uptake) that there is this other thing that happens quite a lot: the slow motion conversation, in which I'm trying to plan something complex and their end of the conversation always comes with a 3 day lag. There's also the 'soft flake,' which is a flake in the planning stage so you don't notice it as a flake.
I think what happens is they start to realize, "holy shit. There's PLANNING involved? Screw that." But whenever I try to just shoot more casually they're like, "No, I want to be like this other elaborate thing in your port!"
That is all.
Hello,
Do you have the models email or telephone number?
That could help. I know that MM doesn't work on mobile for example
Jen
p.s. if she is like me, she could've went out of town with an old laptop and didn't remember the password for another account
p.p.s. I'm going to message you about something now that you made me think of it
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 35726
Los Angeles, California, US
Jen B E wrote:
Hello,
Do you have the models email or telephone number?
That could help. I know that MM doesn't work on mobile for example
Jen
p.s. if she is like me, she could've went out of town with an old laptop and didn't remember the password for another account
p.p.s. I'm going to message you about something now that you made me think of it I'm talking about multiple people over a long span of time.
I think a lot of it is, "I got a better paying offer for that time that I'd rather take and instead of saying so I'm using the old 'no answer is an answer' thing and I leave it to you to eventually catch on.'
If they did the former I'd say, "perfectly understandable. No problem. Lets try again another time,'" but when they do the latter I just cross them off my mental list, fwiw.
Photographer
Maxfield Photography
Posts: 244
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
Like the OP, I don't get many true flakes from model mayhem. In 11 years I've had nearly 1 for personal shoots, although I've had a few, maybe 3, when I've recruited off Model Mayhem for group shoots. But I do get a number of "soft flakes" where we have a date scheduled, and the model has to postpone for one reason or another. Sometimes the shoots eventually take place, other times I never hear from the model again. I really do believe that some people are in love with the notion of being a model, but when it comes time to put in the actual work, well... that's a bit of a rude awakening for them. "You mean models don't just show up, look pretty, and collect a phat paycheck?"
You know the number one predictor I've found as to whether a model is serious about their work? I mean apart from a killer portfolio, but what about a model who is just getting started? It's their communication skills. Do they have a lot of info about themselves in their bio? Do they respond in full, thoughtful sentences, or, when you write several paragraphs, do they respond with "Ok"? What is that supposed to mean, "OK"!? Who can get any useful information from "OK"? When you ask them questions, do they answer them? Models who are serious about modeling will engage in the conversation. If they can't be bothered to respond in a meaningful way, if they don't seem to want to engage in the planning process, they are likely "models" in name only.
To reduce the chance of flaking:
- Always get a contact number. It doesn't have to be in your first communication, but get it before the shoot.
- Be thorough in communicating details, especially time and place.
- Be professional. You can be friendly, but don't be flirty.
- Don't plan too far in advance, it's hard to sustain the excitement about an upcoming shoot for more than 10 days.
- Don't plan less than 3 days in advance. There is not enough time to work out the details.
- Remind the model a few days before, and then the day of the shoot. This is SO important, it's can't be understated.
- Meet in person or talk on the phone to confirm things. If they are serious, they can spare 5 minutes for this purpose.
- And always use a good dandruff shampoo.
Photographer
Conrad Turner
Posts: 37
New York, New York, US
This might be unrelated, but I had a model solicit me for work and when I replied to her asking for her rates, it took her a MONTH AND A HALF to reply! When I checked her on it she gave me a sob story about her cat being sick, getting force out of her company and then had balls to talk down to me and demand I apologize or block or get blocked, I was like "so be it, blocked her"
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 35726
Los Angeles, California, US
One that went silent posted an availability notice that would put here elsewhere during our scheduled shoot. The stupid thing is all she would have to do is just say, "Look, I'm not getting enough work in your area so I need to change plans. Maybe we can try again in future," and we probably would try again in future.
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