Forums > Photography Talk > Lighting dimmers vs Router controllers

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

I need to dim the output of some fresnels.
The changes in light colour are not a problem.
Dimmers are the most convenient way of controlling the output.
Light dimmers for 1000w are fairly expensive, and yet router controllers are relatively reasonable.
Will router controllers damage the fresnels? Only reason I can think of to not use them.

Oct 23 16 01:56 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Herman Surkis wrote:
I need to dim the output of some fresnels.
The changes in light colour are not a problem.
Dimmers are the most convenient way of controlling the output.
Light dimmers for 1000w are fairly expensive, and yet router controllers are relatively reasonable.
Will router controllers damage the fresnels? Only reason I can think of to not use them.

I am doing it this way, because moments ago I lost the entire post when going out to get links to the products.

By the time you are done with exchange and shipping it is $75cdn.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ … immer.html

While these guys from a different source are $25cdn. And similar is available at some hardware suppliers locally.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/like/35185493087 … rmvSB=true

The Impact from B&H is very similar to the 500w foot controllers I bought via Amazon. The 500's are not 3 prong, and are not linear dimmers, but close enough, sort of.

Since I will need 3 and it is a hobby for me, and they will not be used that much, I am trying to save money.

Any thoughts out there?

Oct 23 16 02:05 pm Link

Photographer

Managing Light

Posts: 2678

Salem, Virginia, US

Herman, I'm assuming that the lamp behind your Fresnel is an incandescent of some type, and therefore needs a lamp controller, which is a resistive load - the type you referenced from B&H.  The ebay controller is for motors; it expects to see a somewhat inductive load.  While the 15 amp specification of the ebay controller would seem to be adequate, I'd worry about using it for a purely resistive load like a lamp operating at a kilowatt.

Oct 23 16 02:23 pm Link

Photographer

You Can Call Me Pierre

Posts: 800

Loma Linda, California, US

Can you switch lamps down to 750 or 500 watts?

Oct 23 16 03:09 pm Link

Photographer

Zack Zoll

Posts: 6895

Glens Falls, New York, US

You Can Call Me Pierre wrote:
Can you switch lamps down to 750 or 500 watts?

Or use scrims?

Oct 23 16 03:57 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Zack Zoll wrote:

Or use scrims?

Scrims, gels etc. would work. But not as quick and easy as dimmers.
And remember A scrim requires another stand, and careful placement and, and ... How many scrims do you need to control a light by 6f.
Yes in movies they do that, but it is more work.

The issues mentioned, re lights and motors is interesting.
How is it that some people use the motor controller for lights? What damage could they be causing? If I knew more about some electrical stuff I would likely have an answer.
Overheating is something that comes to mind, but not sure if it is a real issue.

Oct 24 16 01:13 pm Link

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 7504

New York, New York, US

On small theater stages I've run multiple banks of lights, fresnels, liekos and par cans, using ordinary household dimmers which are normally 15 amps @110 volts or a maximum safe capacity (in theory) of up to 1650 watts per dimmer.  Since performance tends to fall off with use, run, coiling of cable and vary somewhat from the "norm" I always maxed out my load at 1000 watts per dimmer and never had a failure in more than 15 years of use of my home-made dimmer board consisting of two banks of dimmers, each fused at 15 Amps.. 

I would think that you'd be just fine if you simply dimmed each unit with its own dimmer.  Home Depot or any good hardware store should have them in a rotary style or the slightly more expensive slider type that I prefer.

Oct 24 16 09:20 pm Link

Photographer

Giacomo Cirrincioni

Posts: 22232

Stamford, Connecticut, US

They are simple (and relatively cheap) to build, I have several that I've made.  You just have to buy properly rated dimmer switches.

Oct 25 16 05:18 am Link

Photographer

Warren Leimbach

Posts: 3223

Tampa, Florida, US

Hi Herman

I'm not sure how much you want to spend.  But yes, the heavier dimmers are a bit pricey.

I built one from a 120v household wall mount switch rated for 2k watts.  I think it was marketed as a "chandelier dimmer" and if memory serves it was about $75 for the component. 

You can buy them factory made for maybe $200+   They will have better water resistance and look more professional than my homegrown version.  They are marketed to tent rental companies and event companies.
http://tentwares.com/catalog-item/electrical-dimmer/

EDIT  The more I think about it, it you might consider just renting the dimmer a few times a year.  Maybe $5/day?

As the world moves to LEDs, the need for such heavy dimmers will probably go away.


As for the fan controller, the one your referenced might be undersized.  The fan controller is made for an inductive load.   The light is a resistive load which generates more heat.  I don't think the fan controller will damage the light.  But I do think the heat generated might burn out the fan controller.  So if you go the fan controller route you might want get one with an oversize rating.

Oct 25 16 09:30 am Link

Photographer

Michael Bots

Posts: 8020

Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Standard item from any electrical supply place -- yes there is a big price jump from 600W units which is unexplained as the only real difference is the current rating on the Triac/SCR and the added heat-sink capacity


Any of    Lutron  NT1500 or NT-2000   N-2000  N-1500     should work for you with spare capacity (less overheating - longer life)

                                         (Incandescent / Halogen)
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pa … mbers.aspx
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pa … mbers.aspx

(rotary knob cheaper than slide control)



LUTRON NOVA N-1500 SLIDE DIMMER SWITCH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTRON-NOVA-N-1 … 1934047730

1000W
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTRON-NOVA-N-1 … 1934041296

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lutron-Nova … 1910807929



                         inside?   (1000w or less at 110V -- load rating is current dependent)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000W-Voltage-R … 0608914161

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Router controller --- doesn't dim to off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6E1uI8yOy0

Oct 26 16 03:00 am Link

Photographer

Noah Russell

Posts: 609

Seattle, Washington, US

Its true that tungsten lighting is a restive load vs the inductive load of a motor, but the harbor freight router speed control doesn't seem to care in my experience. It dims 1000w tungsten and remains cool..... They are a triac based just like  lighting dimmers but the harbor freight controller uses a much larger triac(I have taken one apart smile .

I have a handful of old eBay Fresnel that I have retrofitted with flash tubes so they work like any other strobe. And if I need to shoot video I still have a 1k modeling light. smile

Cheers,
Noah

Oct 26 16 03:50 am Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Noah Russell wrote:
Its true that tungsten lighting is a restive load vs the inductive load of a motor, but the harbor freight router speed control doesn't seem to care in my experience. It dims 1000w tungsten and remains cool..... They are a triac based just like  lighting dimmers but the harbor freight controller uses a much larger triac(I have taken one apart smile .

I have a handful of old eBay Fresnel that I have retrofitted with flash tubes so they work like any other strobe. And if I need to shoot video I still have a 1k modeling light. smile

Cheers,
Noah

Info I needed.

Thanks all.

Trouble with asking tech questions here is that your are likely to get more info than you want.  wink
But you are likely to get what you need.

Building can get expensive if you use some high capacity light dimmer switches.
Owner of the shared studio and the continuous lights has built some 2 light 1000w dimmers. Meaning it dims one or 2 lights at the same time. Less versatile. Individual is best way to go.

I decided to keep the 500w dimmers. Too much trouble to return, and the price is not bad.
And it is nice to hear that the router controller should not damage the 1000w lights. So it may be worth buying.

I need to remind people that this is just for a hobby. Perhaps I should remind myself.
And not as expensive as Titanium golf clubs.

As a fun point he also has a Norman Fresnel flash. Too many toys, and not a big enough space to really play with them. And on ones own it takes a lot of time to change things up. I am one of those who only has a vague idea of what they want to shoot, at the start of a shoot. And then I like to experiment during a shoot. (advantage of shooting for your own pleasure, you can play)

Thanks, and I hope this was also of use to others.

Oct 26 16 02:45 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Michael Bots wrote:
Standard item from any electrical supply place -- yes there is a big price jump from 600W units which is unexplained as the only real difference is the current rating on the Triac/SCR and the added heat-sink capacity


Any of    Lutron  NT1500 or NT-2000   N-2000  N-1500     should work for you with spare capacity (less overheating - longer life)

                                         (Incandescent / Halogen)
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pa … mbers.aspx
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pa … mbers.aspx

(rotary knob cheaper than slide control)



LUTRON NOVA N-1500 SLIDE DIMMER SWITCH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTRON-NOVA-N-1 … 1934047730

1000W
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTRON-NOVA-N-1 … 1934041296

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lutron-Nova … 1910807929



                         inside?   (1000w or less at 110V -- load rating is current dependent)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000W-Voltage-R … 0608914161

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Router controller --- doesn't dim to off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6E1uI8yOy0

You found stuff I could not.
Never figured out how that happens.
Lutron goes from reasonable to very expensive. Local hardware seems to overcharge. Building is not tough DIY but I have found in the past, that by the time you run around sourcing parts, building it etc. the time and money involved, you could have bought it made for not much more. Very much depends on my mood.

But, now I have some great options.

Oct 26 16 02:53 pm Link

Photographer

Gabby57

Posts: 470

Ponca City, Oklahoma, US

I've used the "router" controllers with 600W Fresnels for several hours at a stretch with no issues whatsoever.  But I'm no electrical engineer so can only say good luck and your mileage may vary.  By the way, they are a lot cheaper at "Harbor Freight" than ebay or were when I got mine several years ago.

Nov 07 16 03:27 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Gabby57 wrote:
I've used the "router" controllers with 600W Fresnels for several hours at a stretch with no issues whatsoever.  But I'm no electrical engineer so can only say good luck and your mileage may vary.  By the way, they are a lot cheaper at "Harbor Freight" than ebay or were when I got mine several years ago.

Will look closer.

Nov 09 16 10:22 pm Link