MM's new updates are going to cripple their site. There are numerous photo display sites out there, we don't need another site where even free members can display more. MM's niche was the ability to connect models and photographers and other creatives.

Now first time users with a basic membership, will not be able to email non-friends and will be unable to utilize this site for the real reason it has thrived all these years - connectivity. I do hope the management can see that taking away emails between people who are not yet friends and trading for more photos in a portfolio is not the answer for gaining more paid memberships and keeping the site alive and functioning. An email should come first, then a friend connection. And the ability to reach out to models and photographers even as a new member is integral to the functionality of this model and artist community. Entice people to sign up for more photos (they will if active) and keep allowing emails between people of all membership and friendship levels.

/End "I'm not awake yet but I'm disappointed" rant.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I'm FB friends with a successful traveling model.  She posted the following.  Is this true?

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/965861
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/965862

30 day vip trial (don't know about older basic members)

Existing Premium Users Upgraded to VIP: we have given all existing Premium users a free upgrade to VIP for the remainder of their subscription time. When your subscription time is set to renew, you will be taken to the NEW Premium tier unless you upgrade to the new VIP level.

basically, work like crazy the first 30 days, then pay or get locked back down; or start another new profile after 28 days

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I'm FB friends with a successful traveling model.  She posted the following.  Is this true?

How dare you doubt her

MatureModelMM wrote:
I never add anyone as a friend until after we have exchanged messages, usually several times.  I can't see how it would be helpful to anyone joining at the basic level if they aren't able to send at least a few messages per day.  Many people don't automatically add all the friend requests that they get, and for good reason.

Im not understanding how this is an "improvement", many know and see that on many profiles it says "message me first" before making a friend request.........................W

also the levels more likely should have been 15 goes to 25 or 30
75 goes to 100 or 125
and last should be 200 or 250 pics, who in the world needs or wants to post 500 pics?

Also is there a change in the links and BB code or does that stay the same?

MatureModelMM wrote:
I never add anyone as a friend until after we have exchanged messages, usually several times.  I can't see how it would be helpful to anyone joining at the basic level if they aren't able to send at least a few messages per day.  Many people don't automatically add all the friend requests that they get, and for good reason.

This sums up the way I also use the networking aspect of MM

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
All new members get a free one month VIP trial.

All basic members that joined in 2017 were offered a free one month Premium upgrade. All remaining Basic members were offered a discounted Premium upgrade.

All Premium members (at the time of the update) were upgraded to VIP for the duration of their subscription.

Legacy members can message non-friends. (Loki, you're a Legacy member.)

All the info is posted here:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/965861

Yes, it is clear that new members get one month to try for free, then get bumped down to a useless level of service.

I think it is clear that management hopes users will opt to upgrade to a paid membership.  If not, the site becomes useless after the trial.

It will be interesting to see what happens.  Management is essentially betting the future of the site on the hope that new members will be willing to pay, and that existing paid members will be willing to renew, once the free members go away.

I could be wrong.  Perhaps this will lead to the site becoming wildly successful as everyone upgrades to a paid membership, and advertising revenue increases due to all the new members.   We shall see.

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
All new members get a free one month VIP trial.

All basic members that joined in 2017 were offered a free one month Premium upgrade. All remaining Basic members were offered a discounted Premium upgrade.

All Premium members (at the time of the update) were upgraded to VIP for the duration of their subscription.

Legacy members can message non-friends. (Loki, you're a Legacy member.)

All the info is posted here:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/965861

You're nuking your base, your membership of non-active members will exponentially grow. Trying to force people to pay more for a site that is giving less and less is not a good business plan.

Michael Fryd wrote:
What we are watching is the death spiral of a site that has lost touch with the needs and desires of their members.

Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.

I'm with you on all of these but there is one last option that I have considered as well.  It really the ultimate tin foil hat theory and I realize it but here goes anyway.

Worst case scenario:

IB certainly does not want the site to fail.  It'd be pointless for it to fail from any smart business stand point.  However if it's going to fail why not get every posable dime you can before it goes completely dies and goes the way of OMP.  Basically just sucking people for what they can get while they can get it.

Barry Kidd Photography wrote:
...
IB certainly does not want the site to fail.  It'd be pointless for it to fail from any smart business stand point.  However if it's going to fail why not get every posable dime you can before it goes completely dies and goes the way of OMP.  Basically just sucking people for what they can get while they can get it.

You're better off getting $100/year for another 5 years, then $200 for one last year, and then nothing.

As you raise prices, you lose customers.  This can be good or it can be bad.  If doubling the price causes a 10% drop in customers, you still come out ahead in the short term.  If raising prices 10% causes a 50% drop in customers, then profits go down.

The trick is finding the right balance.

One of the things that makes this so interesting is that the value of the MM service goes up with more members, and down with fewer members.  Anything that reduces the number of members reduces the value.  Reducing the value, tends to push down the number of members, and we have our death spiral.

The challenge facing MM is coming up with a way to keep membership up while increasing revenue.  The obvious strategy is to provide a free level of service that is enough to get membership up, but provide benefits to paid members that encourage a significant number of members to pay for upgrades.

The issue here is that non-paid members cannot send messages to others, unless they are already friends.  A huge value of MM to many people is that they can network with, and arrange work with new people.  "new people" tend to be people you are not friends with.  The new pricing structure pretty much minimize this previous valuable MM service. 

The issue here is that if someone is already known to me, I likely have other ways of contacting them.  Texting, email, facebook, etc.  The primary reason I need to message on MM is to arrange work with new models.   New models tend to not have the money for paid memberships.   

To me, the new policies suggest a strong disconnect between how people use this site, and how management thinks we use the site.   When there is this much of a disconnect, I expect more and more issues as time goes on.

Of course, I could be wrong.  I could be in the minority.  Perhaps most photographers will welcome being able to come to MM without having to worry that there is a message from someone who wants to hire them.  Perhaps they are tired are having such a huge pool of models that they can approach to hire?  If management is correct, people will be happy to join this site once they realize they won't be bothered by others...

Michael Fryd wrote:
Of course, I could be wrong.  I could be in the minority.  Perhaps most photographers will welcome being able to come to MM without having to worry that there is a message from someone who wants to hire them.  Perhaps they are tired are having such a huge pool of models that they can approach to hire?  If management is correct, people will be happy to join this site once they realize they won't be bothered by others...

I'M DYING OMG LOL. *BOWS DOWN TO THE GOD*

JQuest wrote:
This format will simply drive more traffic to instagram and Facebook. I've stayed away from using Facebook as a landing site for contacting models, however I can see going forward I'll need a place where basic membership models will be able to contact me as well as a place for travelers that aren't VIP members. I guess I'll just add a FB link to my MM bio page.

It seems counterintuitive to limit messaging on a site that was created for messaging. I'm certain they have their reasons though.

I've already being using Facebook almost exclusively for communication with models or potential models.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I've already being using Facebook almost exclusively for communication with models or potential models.

So,

1)  How do you use FB to find models in your area?

2)  How do you use FB to find models willing to pose nude in your area?

3)  How do you use FB to find traveling models?

4)  How do you view images of potential models, especially if you are interested in the nude & FB doesn't allow nudes?

msly wrote:

I suspect that site is going to be picking up traction now.

joshsflickr wrote:
......


In all the years I've seen MM, I've never seen the site reworked to keep up with any other site. Browsing photos has always been clunky, and the upload restrictions aren't helpful either. There is no app or clean mobile site. I've sent messages that were replied to months later because the site was never good at doing what it was supposed to do. It should be as accessible as possible. There's a reason the biggest web based social sites are on a freemium model. You need a user base to exist. Users like access and clean looking pages.

........

Well said. In particular, I appreciate that you have mentioned the clunky image browsing. There are several flaws in the browsing programming, especially when the port being browsed has multiple pages and/or albums. These flaws make browsing large portfolios slow and tedious. Meanwhile, on sites like FetLife and others, image browsing is streamlined and intuitive. I agree that MM should be about connecting and interacting with collaborators. But the ultimate result of such collaborations, and what attracts outsiders to the site, is the images. Browsing images shouldn't be a chore.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So,

1)  How do you use FB to find models in your area?

2)  How do you use FB to find models willing to pose nude in your area?

3)  How do you use FB to find traveling models?

4)  How do you view images of potential models, especially if you are interested in the nude & FB doesn't allow nudes?

1) By networking.  There are many models I've shot with in the past who are not on Modelmayhem, but they have Facebook  accounts.  I get referrals from them for other models who I may also shoot with.  Also many of the models I've found on Modelmayhem are found on Facebook.  The response rate is much better and faster getting in contact with them on Facebook than it has been for me here lately.

2)  By communicating with them, especially if they are model members of the Secret Groups that other photographers and myself are in that are specifically for nude models.  I also network with many photographers on there so that I can do vetting. 

3)  There are many traveling models who have their own pages where they post their itinerary.  Most models that are traveling that I've shot with are using Facebook. 

4)  You are mistaken.  Facebook does allow nudity in Private Groups they call  "Secret" ... and I'm in a couple.  I'm also "Friends" with 665 people on Facebook who are mostly models or other photographers.   I've also reconnected with some people from my past that makes me feel great about using Facebook.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

I suspect that site is going to be picking up traction now.

The post that you refer to doesn’t appear to be here any more?

Maybe it was removed as it was promoting a competing portfolio hosting and networking website?

If so, I don’t want to repeat that offence.  It’s easy enough to deduce what is being referred to. 

The owner of that website seems far more hands on and proactive than do the owners of MM.  The software is also far more useful and advanced.

But…

It currently has very little coverage in the USA.

And I find the MM forums to be much more friendly and informative.  Even though there seems to be so few people on here nowadays.

One only has to try the available alternative to see just how awful it could be.

The demise of MM would be a real shame.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
But…

It currently has very little coverage in the USA.

And I find the MM forums to be much more friendly and informative.  Even though there seems to be so few people on here nowadays.

One only has to try the available alternative to see just how awful it could be.

The demise of MM would be a real shame.

The admins over there are giving free unlimited account for 1 year to all new US based members, renewable for another year if another member is referred to that site. So I predict a higher number of sign ups will happen over there from the US

mlsy wrote:
The admins over there are giving free unlimited account for 1 year to all new US based members, renewable for another year if another member is referred to that site. So I predict a higher number of sign ups will happen over there from the US

Do you ever go on their forums?

I tried once and it quickly became a metaphorical car crash.

Now I read them sometimes but never contribute.

I reckon the people on the MM forums are actually properly helpful sometimes.  I think that's worth trying to hang on to.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
...I reckon the people on the MM forums are actually properly helpful sometimes.  I think that's worth trying to hang on to.

Agreed.  But there are 11 pages (on the change feedback pages) of people begging MM to save the core usefulness of the MM site. And while we all hope that things will change, I wish I could point to a single signal of any kind from MM that suggests there's any kind of realization / consideration over what's going on.

I still have some hope left, but frankly (I'm just talking personally) it's dropping daily.  And I'm sure that you, like many others, are suddenly getting contacted (off site) with alternatives.  It seems that they're all "spotting an opportunity".  I just hope that it's not necessary.  But in the end, we can only try as best we can.  That's all we can do.

LightDreams wrote:

Agreed.  But there are 11 pages (on the change feedback pages) of people begging MM to save the core usefulness of the MM site. And while we all hope that things will change, I wish I could point to a single signal of any kind from MM that suggests there's any kind of realization / consideration over what's going on.

I still have some hope left, but frankly (I'm just talking personally) it's dropping daily.  And I'm sure that you, like many others, are suddenly getting contacted (off site) with alternatives.  It seems that they're all "spotting an opportunity".  I just hope that it's not necessary.  But in the end, we can only try as best we can.  That's all we can do.

It's not a question of how many people are upset, it's a question of how many people will upgrade their membership.

From a short term perspective, it's worth losing 5,000 serious long term members, if they can get 20,000 others to upgrade.

The long term issue is whether or not the site will continue to attract people without the long term members?

Michael Fryd wrote:
The long term issue is whether or not the site will continue to attract people without the long term members?

I have a little different take on it.  I think it's more about the models staying after 30 days and the ability of them to contact, or be contacted by, photographers that they might be interested in working with.

If you take away the bulk of the models, you end up with a few hundred photographers exchanging tips.  A valid but, I'd suggest, much smaller niche market...

Patrick Walberg wrote:

1) By networking.  There are many models I've shot with in the past who are not on Modelmayhem, but they have Facebook  accounts.  I get referrals from them for other models who I may also shoot with.  Also many of the models I've found on Modelmayhem are found on Facebook.  The response rate is much better and faster getting in contact with them on Facebook than it has been for me here lately.

2)  By communicating with them, especially if they are model members of the Secret Groups that other photographers and myself are in that are specifically for nude models.  I also network with many photographers on there so that I can do vetting. 

3)  There are many traveling models who have their own pages where they post their itinerary.  Most models that are traveling that I've shot with are using Facebook. 

4)  You are mistaken.  Facebook does allow nudity in Private Groups they call  "Secret" ... and I'm in a couple.  I'm also "Friends" with 665 people on Facebook who are mostly models or other photographers.   I've also reconnected with some people from my past that makes me feel great about using Facebook.

Thank you for the help. I'm still not sure about the whole Instagram/Facebook modeling thing, but I am trying to learn more.

How do you find/join these secret groups?