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Models that are Flake?
How can we tell or be informed that a model is a Flake? I have had 2 in a row, NO shows. Jul 04 17 01:08 pm Link MASTER LENSMAN wrote: There is no way to know this, but you can possibly get around the problem by offering to pay them. The going rate here seems to be a $100hr. Jul 04 17 02:15 pm Link No way to know for sure, but since I've started doing same day of confirmations, I haven't had an actual no-show. Models who drop communications are a large risk for no shows or cancelations, the further the model has to travel, the money at stake, etc are all risk factors, but none absolute. Jul 04 17 03:20 pm Link Abbitt Photography wrote: This. Jul 04 17 03:29 pm Link Personally, I'm always trying to find a solution to this . . . and there never is one . . . Right now though, if their communication is shite, we don't shoot. Which is great since I've dodged at least 3 bullets so far! Two people never responded past our initial correspondence, and one took 6 months to respond. On the flip side, using this idea, I found someone that gave me a week's notice she couldn't do our pre-planned shoot. Then she asked to reschedule. And that's why her and I shoot together a lot. And the one in my profile picture shot this while feeling a bit physically ill 'cause she didn't want to cancel; in fact, she had some swelling under the mask (but she knew she'd be wearing a mask anyways). Her and I shoot a lot too. Jul 05 17 03:11 am Link I'm not a Professional Photographer but a pre-shoot meeting seems to work with new Models although there are really no indicators past that point. I'd agree with the comment above about communication. A Model who wants to shoot or gain experience is enthusiastic and will make communication a priority. Jul 05 17 04:21 am Link Two flakes since 2008 doesn't seem bad at all! Jul 05 17 04:23 am Link Money seems to work as a pretty good deterent to flakeyness. I also try to shoot the models as quickly as I can. Some model for only a month then they disappear into thin air. Many times I will change my schedule to shoot someone same day. I know many photographers have put years into their craft while many models will put in a good 30 days and retire with their profiles still up. It's not a rag on models, it just is what it is. Jul 05 17 05:09 am Link L o n d o n F o g wrote: I couldn't disagree more. In the last 10 years, I'd say that of all the flakes I've had (and I'm fortunate to have had a small amount), the ratio of flakes that were paid versus ones on a TFP shoot is probably 4 to 1. I can't even remember the last time I had a model flake on me for a TFP shoot but I can sure as hell remember all the models who flaked on me that I was paying. Jul 06 17 12:44 am Link L o n d o n F o g wrote: Money doesn't work, they still flake. Jul 06 17 03:33 am Link I say this all the time but I don't think anyone ever listens. The cure to models flaking on you is for you to develop a team of models maybe 6 to 10 who you love working with you and who themselves are interested in being a part of the work you are creating. I have done this since 2012 and I have not had a flake since I started this approach. I only shoot about 3 new MM models each year, one of those will become a part of my team. I now am shooting women who are referred to me by the models I have worked with. Friends, fellow students, and for some reason most of the seniors from a certain high school show choir. ( yes they were all 18) I stay busy now shooting two shoots a week. ( I am now retired so had to cut back from the 4 to 5 shoots a week.) I shoot mostly nudes. They are all shot on a trade basis. I am lucky that most of these models won't shoot nudes with other photographers and that some only work with me exclusively. So I would say instead of decrying the flakey models ( very few people today live up to their commitments sadly) do something positive for yourselves and create a model team for yourself. Start slow with only one or two collaborators then expand as the opportunities allow. Jul 06 17 06:53 am Link Risen Phoenix Photo wrote: While a good idea, this doesn't always solve the problem. I have a rolodex of models I work with on a regular basis who I know are reliable, look great, and are easy to work with, but that doesn't mean that my clients always like them. When a client comes to me and says, "I want a blonde girl and asian guy for the shoot" I go through my list and send over samples of their work. I explain that I know these models to be reliable and it's their decision to say yes or no, not mine. All I can do is guide the horse to water. So if the client says they like only one or neither of my suggestions, then we have to go through casting calls and that's when the risk-level goes up and that's usually where my headaches begin. Of course, I explain this to the client. It is also why the majority of the flakes I've had in recent years have happened, because the vetting process for these models was weak because I haven't personally worked with them before. Jul 09 17 06:51 am Link it's probably best to assume they are all, then be pleasantly surprised if one actually shows up Jul 10 17 10:11 am Link It is impossible to keep models in general from flaking, if you haven't had one flake on you it just means your not shooting enough. I shoot agency girls 3-4 times a week and every now and then get a flake but I dont come here and bitch about it. Whats the point? Jul 10 17 10:56 am Link Things happen. I accept that when I trade with models some may not show. Yet I've had models drive hours to work with me. Some have posed nude in filthy sketchy places. More then one has bought me lunch and dinner. Focus on your success and not failure. I ask all models confirm sessions. No call or text I assume it isn't happening. Learn to spot problems early on. Does the model seem genuinely interested. Does she update her profile often. If the shoot is really important and you can afford to pay something, do so. Jul 10 17 11:28 am Link No way to tell for sure. Sometimes you think everyone is a Go, then they cancel at the exact time they're supposed to be there. You could just be on an unlucky spell. We just had a bright full moon. Maybe others do this too, but I try to Avoid full moons for shoots. Over the years, I've found people tend to flake more, plus misread what I send them on full moons. But, on the other hand, models and photogs tend to do this anyway. Jul 11 17 11:13 pm Link In my experience, the best way to avoid flakes is to not depend on a model you haven't worked with before. Schedule unknown models for multi-model shoots. Then if one doesn't show up, you've still got someone to shoot. I also expect confirmations via email. I ask for verification the day before the shoot. If I don't hear back by midnight before the day of the shoot, the shoot's off. And on the day of the shoot we have a phone-call verification... voice, not text. If I'm travelling to the model, I don't pack my vehicle until I call and get the model's voice verification. If the model is travelling to me, I expect the model to call me and let me know she's on the way. Jul 12 17 12:24 am Link I just had a model cancel on me for personal, trade work scheduled for this weekend. I also had a photographer cancel last last month. He was someone I had worked with before so I did not ask for a deposit, which is my norm. Fortunately I was able to fill the slot so no time and money were lost, but this is beside the point. I do understand that things happen so let's assume your cancellation had a valid reason for not showing up. This is in no way your fault. You set aside your time and put forth the energy to make plans for it. Other than just being someone with a good heart, you have no reason to let it slide. So whether a person fails to honor a commitment for valid reasons or invalid ones, the person left holding the bag is always harmed, and even if they forgive it is hard to forget. I have decided that in the future I am going to do something different in a trade situation. As a photographer or model collaborator, I will always require models and photographers to make a refundable deposit for trade work, say half my normal rate. If they show they get their money back. If not, I will keep it, regardless of their reasons. Now before I get jumped on, I realize this is a one sided policy but if, unlike your flake, you are a serious person with a good track record whose time has monetary value, it seems to make sense. I will let you know how it goes. Jul 12 17 01:55 am Link Lisa Everhart wrote: There is one problem with that Lisa: I give a model (or photographer) a deposit, do all the set up work, drive to meet her, she doesn't show up, how do I get my money back? Now I am burned twice. I would need such a large level of trust to put out a deposit, that a deposit would seem redundant if I trust someone that much. Jul 12 17 05:00 am Link Hunter GWPB wrote: Yes, I was going to say the same, good luck with getting a deposit! Jul 12 17 06:12 am Link Always assume model will flake for some bazaar reason. (karma,stars,horoscope,boyfriend,remote relative sick or dead,obscure pagan holiday,incurable sickness,or innumerable other reasons). Model Flakes Happen, get over it. You can msg. me for a list of mine if I can find that hard drive. Jul 12 17 09:38 am Link Hunter GWPB wrote: Well, in your case, you should be the one requiring the deposit, and like I said, I realize it is one sided. Jul 12 17 09:47 am Link L o n d o n F o g wrote: I never have a problem getting deposits from photographers for paid shoots when I model now. Why would it be any different to get a deposit from a model I am shooting for trade, or from a photographer who is shooting me for trade? If they are serious, then they should cough it up. If not, then I will likely be fortunate to have saved my time. Jul 12 17 09:51 am Link The best way to guarantee that models never ever flake on you again it too....stop shooting models.  I have seen some major flaking happen in all these years I have been in the business. Major as in flaking out on Victoria's Secret first time bookings...twice Jul 12 17 09:51 am Link The best assurance that a model will show is need and motivation. Does the model need what you can offer and motivated to put forth the effort. If you can’t establish the two, then expect a no show. Jul 12 17 12:03 pm Link Lisa Everhart wrote: Perhaps. I only have problems with flakes from newer models, and that is rare. There are questions that I have learned to ask before hand. There are red flags, one of which is the requirement of a deposit. In your case, I may make an exception. Jul 12 17 01:21 pm Link You need to listen to Flake News. Jul 12 17 02:53 pm Link I just noticed that there is already a discussion on flakiness. Pardon me for the repeat. How about something related to, but also discusses the other side? I might be now considered a "flake model" to a photographer due to miscommunication. Here is the background: My Approach: On my profile, I have a confirmation section that states the following: “Confirmation: Before the appointed date of the photo session, please send me a message 48 hours prior for confirmation. So, both parties know the event is active. Not the day of.” During communication with the photographer, I always ask, “Are you agreeable to the terms stated on my profile? I do not want to conflict interest.” They mostly state, “Yes.” Experience: However, I have 4 photographers confirm with me the day of. By that time, I am already committed to other things such as my full-time job, which I do not touch my cell phone or go on Model Mayhem, for that is rude to the employer and unfair to my peers. Example Experience: I have been searching since early May, for a photographer that can execute a Classic Hollywood portrait style that can be found in George Hurrell for Trade Work. This light manipulation and stark shadowing, but also have this softness glow, I have come to admire. Someone approached me, and moreover, was local. He also has the same aspirations. And extra bonus, enjoyed Jazz as well because I wanted a Billie Holiday flare. We communicated back and forth for 2 weeks, and in that engagement, we discuss locations, poses, clothing, etc. We also met at the Healdsburg Jazz Festival at Paul Mahder Gallery, which was to become the location. I had a blast and met some awesome individuals. We schedule a photo session the following week on a Tuesday, since I am free on Tuesdays. But then no word for over a month; thus, I figured, I was dropped. I message him because I felt his character was not the type to drop someone without informing them. In a couple of days, he replies back stating he was busy, which I give him the benefit of the doubt. We scheduled a photo session on Monday, July 10 after I finish work. Thus, I waited for the 48-confirmation message. I received nothing. On that Monday, during the break, I checked my email, and he emailed me "the day of" for confirmation. I was horrified. For a couple of reasons, 1) I had work commitments, 2) I do not wish to inconvenience nor waste individual’s time, & 3) I did not want to be labeled as a “flake model.” Because I assume that I was dropped again, I did not prepare for the session. I canceled the photo session almost 2 minutes before it started. I tried comminuting with the photographer with my sincere apologies and rescheduling, but I have received nothing. I was also unfriended in Model Mayhem. Despite all that, I really wish to work with them because I thought we connected well, and I appreciate his style. Aftermath: What is the protocol for a photographer to confirm their photo session with a model? What should I do in order for this experience not to happen again? And honestly, do individual’s read profiles? Thank you for your opinions on the matter; it is very much appreciated! Jul 12 17 05:08 pm Link Jocoya wrote: Here's an idea: if you're approaching 48 hours before the shoot and still haven't had confirmation, you can send one last message to the other person saying that if you don't get a confirmation within the next few hours, you're sorry but you'll have to cancel. Jul 13 17 05:25 am Link There are always going to be flakes. You can take steps to reduce the risk but you'll still get them. The most important step is not to ignore warning signs. Trust your gut. People will usually provide clues of their risk of being a flake. Jul 13 17 09:49 am Link Visual Delights, thank you for your pointers. Yes, I sent a confirmation request by email because the individual has a smartphone. Next time, instead of assuming, I shall send a text. Thank you. Jul 13 17 07:31 pm Link L o n d o n F o g wrote: That doesn't work as well as one might thing. I had three shoots set up in three days (not sequential, but close) and two were TF, one paid... the only one that flaked was the paid one. The other two were not only on time, but wonderful to work with. Jul 18 17 12:07 pm Link Jocoya wrote: I have a smartphone and never read e-mail on it Jul 19 17 12:44 pm Link I kinda stopped looking for models on model mayhem. Too many photographers inundating the most desirable models. Sometimes I get courtesy reply, a few days weeks later...or never. Casting calls. Well I never got the job. Never. I still respond to a post, but I don't expect a response. Just too many photographers. I went outside of the MM community, now I'm just trying to find time for my self. I meet the most beautiful models and don't have a flaking problem. In fact most of them come in groups, so I arrange muahs for them, of course it helps if I have designer clothes to be modeled but that's another story. MM is difficult, really tough. Jul 23 17 11:15 am Link the lonely photographer wrote: I'm with you. The single most common reply I get to a query is: no reply at all. the lonely photographer wrote: If you don't mind saying, where outside of MM have you been finding those beautiful, non-flaky models? Jul 23 17 12:02 pm Link Brooklyn Bridges Images. I do call them; however, a hand full of artists such as designers and photographers, who have explicitly told me that they only take text, for they work majority of the time. Thus, I text them. It just depends on the person's preference. Jul 23 17 12:11 pm Link when trying to get amateurs to model, the risk of flakes is high. hiring a professional model from an agency is the best way to be assured of the model, 85-90% of the time, showing up, being on time, being professional. Jul 23 17 06:42 pm Link |
