Forums > Photography Talk > model takes the deposit but doesn't show up

Photographer

BAI photography

Posts: 8

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

I booked a photoshoot with her n March, 2021 and she asked me to pay a deposit of 137.50$ and sign a contract that clearly indicates that her hourly rate is 150$. Yet in early May, she violated the condition of the contract by increasing her rate to 300$/h. When I requested cancellation of the photoshoot and a refund of the deposit, she said the contract did not require her to refund and stopped replying to my email.  What can I do?

Jun 30 22 06:58 am Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 135

Los Angeles, California, US

BAI photography wrote:
I booked a photoshoot with her n March, 2021 and she asked me to pay a deposit of 137.50$ and sign a contract that clearly indicates that her hourly rate is 150$. Yet in early May, she violated the condition of the contract by increasing her rate to 300$/h. When I requested cancellation of the photoshoot and a refund of the deposit, she said the contract did not require her to refund and stopped replying to my email.  What can I do?

Model also did not show up?

Maybe the payment method you used can be reversed, but that was quite some time ago. there is the option of small claims, there is the option of naming and shaming, there is the option of future consumer protection of working with models that do not require a deposit. The wording of the contract is also relevant, but the expected service should also be clear.

Jun 30 22 07:48 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20621

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

BAI photography wrote:
I booked a photoshoot with her n March, 2021 and she asked me to pay a deposit of 137.50$ and sign a contract that clearly indicates that her hourly rate is 150$. Yet in early May, she violated the condition of the contract by increasing her rate to 300$/h. When I requested cancellation of the photoshoot and a refund of the deposit, she said the contract did not require her to refund and stopped replying to my email.  What can I do?

While the law in your jurisdiction may be different, I'd be willing to bet that they're nearly identical to those in all of the US states and other modern countries.

Most people will say that it's a 'civil case' (basically an argument about money) however there is an element of criminality to it (ie: bait and switch, fraud).  When you present the issue to law enforcement agencies they too may try to brush you off and tell you that it's a civil case, but if you can cite some criminal statutes so that they realize you know it's an illegal act they'll probably give attention to the matter and actually do something about it.

It's very likely that the so called model pulled this shit on others, too.  If you can find other victims that even makes it more obvious that it's a criminal case of fraud.

Of course, it all depends on what the contract says, but in order for the fee to be changed after the fact it would have to have a clause stating that.

Jun 30 22 08:41 am Link

Photographer

TaylorScott Photography

Posts: 729

Surprise, Arizona, US

Is this model on MM? If so contact a Moderator and see if there is anything they can do, like lock her profile until she makes resituating. If you have her personal info, I would take her to court. Here in the US we have a small claims court for dollar amount under $5000. No lawyers are able to attend. Not sure what your country has but you could check to see. Maybe you can get double for her breaking the contract.

Me personally, I would not pay a deposit for a shoot on an out of town model without have all of their legal information. I may book a room for her to stay in but would not pay for it until she was present.

Not sure what other options you have there.

Jun 30 22 08:47 am Link

Photographer

TaylorScott Photography

Posts: 729

Surprise, Arizona, US

SayCheez! wrote:
"Most people will say that it's a 'civil case' (basically an argument about money) however there is an element of criminality to it (ie: bait and switch, fraud).  When you present the issue to law enforcement agencies they too may try to brush you off and tell you that it's a civil case, but if you can cite some criminal statutes so that they realize you know it's an illegal act they'll probably give attention to the matter and actually do something about it."

In the US you can cite mail or electronic fraud. Show them emails. This is a hard case to plead when you have an email record of your conversation.

Jun 30 22 08:52 am Link

Photographer

tcphoto

Posts: 1031

Nashville, Tennessee, US

How did you pay her, PayPal, Venmo or check? You should be able to dispute an online payment and stop payment on a check for up to six months. I would follow through with it out of principle.

Jun 30 22 09:21 am Link

Photographer

Nor-Cal Photography

Posts: 3720

Walnut Creek, California, US

BAI photography wrote:
she asked me to pay a deposit of 137.50$

I have never agreed to pay a deposit to any model. Most are willing to waive their request and a few have lost a job opportunity.

But just one worthless opinion.

smile

Jun 30 22 10:54 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11727

Olney, Maryland, US

The first thing that I did was to click through to your profile page to see who the model is.

You are entitled to place "Do not recommend member xxxxxx" on your page. Then if someone contacts you privately, you may explain.

Jul 01 22 07:07 am Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 135

Los Angeles, California, US

Nor-Cal Photography wrote:
Most are willing to waive their request

"just for you, this one time"

Jul 01 22 02:05 pm Link

Photographer

Znude!

Posts: 3318

Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US

Report her as deceased to MM and request they memorialize her account.

Jul 01 22 02:59 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 8095

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Your first mistake was paying a non agency model any kind of deposit. Sorry dude, you got played. Lesson learned.

Jul 02 22 12:20 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28657

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I never paid a model a deposit until last summer. Burned. First time, last time. Luckily, she only took me for $100, but still.. Never again. I want to put her on blast, but that never ends well so live and learn.

Jul 02 22 10:49 pm Link

Clothing Designer

veypurr

Posts: 464

Albuquerque, New Mexico, US

John Jebbia  wrote:
I never paid a model a deposit until last summer. Burned. First time, last time. Luckily, she only took me for $100, but still.. Never again. I want to put her on blast, but that never ends well so live and learn.

Without putting anyone on blast would it be possible for you to elaborate on the scenario?

Jul 03 22 01:26 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

https://64.media.tumblr.com/c610ccb8d9adf6b5901d4d51aa67e005/tumblr_mimq9qezIB1r71gs5o1_500.gif


OP:Sorry this happened to you but sending funds to unknown, anonymous people on the internet is a disaster waiting to happen.
This scenario was inevitable.
Hope you get your $$$ back but more importantly I hope you learned your lesson.

Jul 03 22 04:16 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28657

Phoenix, Arizona, US

veypurr wrote:
Without putting anyone on blast would it be possible for you to elaborate on the scenario?

Give me a couple days to redact identifying information and I'll post the screenshots. Trust me, I've thought about putting her on blast, but that rarely ends well so I'm just chalking it up. Part of me feels like professional models should be aware of which "models" are out there making things harder for them though.

Jul 03 22 06:09 pm Link

Model

Dea and the Beast

Posts: 4796

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

John Jebbia  wrote:
Part of me feels like professional models should be aware of which "models" are out there making things harder for them though.

To what end?

No agency model is not going to gaf, and the few actual working veterans on here that are reading this, are probably doing so only for (weak) entertainment value.

That contract was about as worthless as any gym membership contract.

Models get stiffed so often,  it's almost comical. And still, the sole responsibility lies with the person being stiffed, right?
RiGHT?!??

Jul 07 22 12:18 pm Link

Photographer

Rob Photosby

Posts: 4810

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

I doubt that the "model"ever intended working with you.

With the greatest of sympathy, all that you can do is chalk it up to experience, although I am surprised that you agreed to an initial rate of $150/hour, which, from my experience in Australia, is already well over the odds, and $300/hr is more than any reputable model asks.

The behaviour described seems clearly fraudulent and you might have nominal recourse via the police and the Small Claims Tribunal, but, when the police are too busy to investigate burglaries and the fee for lodging a small claim is $80 (Qld price, but I expect that NSW is similar), your loss is too small to be actionable.

You cannot name and shame on model mayhem, but you can on facecrook if you check out the photography groups. That being said, I wonder if this model even exists (she may be a teenage boy who has stolen photos for all we know) and there is nothing to stop her/him from scamming again under another name.

Jul 08 22 05:44 pm Link

Photographer

Green Wave Photo 312

Posts: 118

Chicago, Illinois, US

I would never, EVER, pay a model a deposit for a shoot. That’s not to say it’s wrong. Maybe you feel like you have to. Maybe the model feels like you should. But I would never do it.

I’m reminded of wise words a photographer friend said to me when I was starting out… “Photographers don’t pay models, clients do.” So I’ve never paid a model for a test shoot outside of images from the shoot. Having said that I’ve had plenty of jobs where the client didn’t have the budget for agency talent and I’ve sourced talent here or elsewhere. If a model told me that they would need a deposit (which hasn’t happened yet) I would totally move on to the next one.

Jul 09 22 05:53 am Link

Photographer

Red Sky Photography

Posts: 3898

Germantown, Maryland, US

Green Wave Photo 312 wrote:
I’m reminded of wise words a photographer friend said to me when I was starting out… “Photographers don’t pay models, clients do.”

And when the Photographer is the Client, he often pays the model and the MUA and the studio fees if applicable. For lots of people, photography is a Hobby, not a business, and as such sometimes requires you to spend money.

When I was shooting lots, I could easily find Models to trade with, but when looking for a Model who knows how to pose, with a specific look, I sometimes had to pay the rest of the team to achieve my idea. No different for me than buying a lens that has the attributes I needed, or specific wardrobe.

I've paid deposits a few times and I've paid for flights sometimes and Hosted many models here, haven't been burned in over 15 years and made some lasting friendships.

Jul 09 22 07:36 am Link

Photographer

Green Wave Photo 312

Posts: 118

Chicago, Illinois, US

Red Sky Photography wrote:

And when the Photographer is the Client, he often pays the model and the MUA and the studio fees if applicable. For lots of people, photography is a Hobby, not a business, and as such sometimes requires you to spend money.

When I was shooting lots, I could easily find Models to trade with, but when looking for a Model who knows how to pose, with a specific look, I sometimes had to pay the rest of the team to achieve my idea. No different for me than buying a lens that has the attributes I needed, or specific wardrobe.

I've paid deposits a few times and I've paid for flights sometimes and Hosted many models here, haven't been burned in over 15 years and made some lasting friendships.

Sounds like you've developed a keen ability to weed the flakes out. Whether sourcing for a job or test shoot or personal project, that is key.

Jul 11 22 07:33 pm Link

Photographer

Malleus Veritas

Posts: 1339

Winchester, Virginia, US

BAI photography wrote:
I booked a photoshoot with her n March, 2021 and she asked me to pay a deposit of 137.50$ and sign a contract that clearly indicates that her hourly rate is 150$. Yet in early May, she violated the condition of the contract by increasing her rate to 300$/h. When I requested cancellation of the photoshoot and a refund of the deposit, she said the contract did not require her to refund and stopped replying to my email.  What can I do?

Simple.  You sue her for breach of contract.  Assuming you kept all your correspondence, you have plenty of evidence so your case is airtight.

All states in Australia have a Small Claims Tribunal:
https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/othe … -tribunals

Or you eat the loss and treat this as cheap learning experience and life lesson.

Unless it is someone I know, personally or through a friend, I *never* pay a deposit.  99.9% of the time it is a cash and dash scam, and I have zero tolerance for scammers.  Asking for a deposit is a giant blinking red flag.

Jul 19 22 08:18 am Link

Photographer

Malleus Veritas

Posts: 1339

Winchester, Virginia, US

Red Sky Photography wrote:

And when the Photographer is the Client, he often pays the model and the MUA and the studio fees if applicable.

Exactly.  Photography is not how I make my living. 

My time is valuable, and it's actually more cost-effective for me to pay a model and call it done, once I factor in the value of my free time.  If I do trade, there's pressure for me to turn the images around quickly.  Fuck that.  I do editing on my schedule when I feel inspired.  Maybe I'll do edits the next day, maybe I won't get to it for a couple of months. 

I don't need that monkey hanging on my back.  I have enough deadlines to contend with at my day job, I don't need to create any more for myself.

Jul 19 22 08:30 am Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18909

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

I think I have only paid a deposit once and it was to a well know , long time MM with a very active account and was for only $50. Most others waived the deposit, only one did not and contacted me when she was in the area to schedule on a date I told her I wasn't available.

Jul 20 22 08:17 am Link

Photographer

Deric Photography

Posts: 2

Seattle, Washington, US

Malleus Veritas wrote:
Exactly.  Photography is not how I make my living. 

My time is valuable, and it's actually more cost-effective for me to pay a model and call it done, once I factor in the value of my free time.  If I do trade, there's pressure for me to turn the images around quickly.  Fuck that.  I do editing on my schedule when I feel inspired.  Maybe I'll do edits the next day, maybe I won't get to it for a couple of months. 

I don't need that monkey hanging on my back.  I have enough deadlines to contend with at my day job, I don't need to create any more for myself.

This is my MO, too, for my nude photography. Same reasons too. A couple of times I've had models complain that I didn't give them images in a timely manner (a week or two) and I remind them our agreement was they were being paid for the modeling time, not the photos, and any photos I send to them is done as a gift and not as a right. Most models though, are super happy when they get 5-10 images when they weren't expecting any.

On deposits-even the high-profile models (above 300,000 followers on IG) I've paid to shoot have charged $150/hr. or less and have agreed to waive the deposit on my word that I will pay them the deposit if I cancel. It takes trust from both ends but sending money beforehand by any party...not wise.

Aug 04 22 05:54 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 13564

Washington, Utah, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
Your first mistake was paying a non agency model any kind of deposit. Sorry dude, you got played. Lesson learned.

I second this.  In contrast to modeling agencies, there is little recourse when independent models flake.    My philosophy is to never invest anything in a shoot that I’ll be overly disappointed to lose if the model no shows.   That also includes studio rental or giving up something important for a shoot.

Aug 04 22 06:35 pm Link

Photographer

Howard B

Posts: 255

Bremerton, Washington, US

I have had problems with models and giving them a deposit for future session. They don’t show up for a paid photo session and you lose time waiting for them.
I have had a model call me one hour late and say they can show up in about 30 min. 30 min later I call them and they say they are making cookies for her kids. She has the gall to say she can be there in an hour.  She got upset that I said forget it in an email in capital letters.

Aug 13 22 07:42 pm Link

Photographer

Jon Winkleman Photo

Posts: 152

Providence, Rhode Island, US

Call a lawyer or go to small claims court. I am not a lawyer but contracts are basically mechanical. Fortunately you have a signed contract. The deposit was condition for both parties. She accepted it conditionally upon signing the contract for agreeing to do the shoot on the date and for the rate stated in the signed contract. If you the photographer cancelled but she was still willing and able to do the shoot, you lose the deposit. However she has decided to break the contract by refusing to model at the agreed to rate. She must return the deposit as it was conditional even if not explicitly stated in the contract.

Lawyers are expensive and time also has a monetary value. What is $150 worth to you? Have a lawyer send her a letter stating that she must either honor the signed contract or return the contract or you will sue for both the contract and damages. Personally if things became acrimonious with a models I would not want to shoot them or expect any good images from a “hate shoot.” This would be playing poker with her and see who will call the bluff. She will not want to hire a lawyer to defend herself to keep $150 that her lawyer will tell her she is not entitled to. However if she talks to a lawyer friend they will tell her that you will not spend a lot on court fees and lawyers because even if you win, the damages will be less than legal fees. A threat from a lawyer could expedite things. Otherwise there is small claims court. That is slower but you will not need a lawyer. However even if you to small claims court figure out the financial damages regarding the cancelled shoot. Studio costs, a lost day. Higher cost of booking a last minute model as a replacement. Really think about it and itemize and expense to you caused by her cancelation and ask for that as well.

I know if I take a day off from my day job I lose more than $150. In the end, is this worth it to you?

Sep 30 22 08:19 am Link

Model

Jen B

Posts: 4474

Phoenix, Arizona, US

John Jebbia  wrote:
I never paid a model a deposit until last summer. Burned. First time, last time. Luckily, she only took me for $100, but still.. Never again. I want to put her on blast, but that never ends well so live and learn.

Oh darn!

This is terrible, (dirty, hustling, no good thief!) Did the model come with references, if so, likely the model is going down a path of no goodness. sad

Jen

Oct 20 22 03:54 am Link

Photographer

pete59t4

Posts: 7

Downers Grove, Illinois, US

Word to the wise...don't sign contracts unless you have enough money to go to court to enforce them.

Oct 24 22 02:07 pm Link