Forums > Photography Talk > Sensor sensitivity?

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1669

Buffalo, New York, US

How comparable is a digital sensor to film? Can you control sensitivity after an image is detected? For example if you wanted to long exposure stars, but also there are street lights that would blow out the image? No way to ignore light above a certain level?

Sep 11 22 10:19 am Link

Photographer

LightDreams

Posts: 4457

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
For example if you wanted to long exposure stars, but also there are street lights that would blow out the image?

SHORT VERSION:

I'd suggest looking at blending shots with different exposures instead.  I suspect that may prove to be a much more practical solution to your (fairly extreme) "street lights combined with stars" exposure problem.

I.E.  Multiple shots of the same scene (on a tripod, of course) with different exposures, that are blended together in post processing.


LONG VERSION:

While I've done a lot of model shots that incorporated long exposure (cityscapes) night work, "starry skies" are definitely not in my area of expertise...

However, I recently followed a tutorial (that I can't find at the moment) by an expert in nightscapes which blended wonderful night country scenes (trees, etc) with beautiful starry skies.

My takeaway was that it involved multiple shots of the same scene (on a tripod, of course), that were blended together in post processing.

Not only did you have the wildly incompatible exposure levels (as per your question) but, for an excellent "starfield shot", he had equipment to track the movement of the stars, keeping them "still" for the camera during the long exposure.  Obviously, that tracking movement would completely mess up any lit foreground areas (not to mention street lights!), so...

In his particular case (in a really dark country area), he used some subtle light painting for trees, etc, to get his separate (desired exposure) shots of the foreground area, that he blended with his best "starfield" exposure shots.

One way or the other, I'd suggest looking at blending shots with different exposures instead.  Again, I suspect that may prove to be a much more practical solution to your (fairly extreme) "street lights combined with stars" exposure problem.

Sep 11 22 11:38 am Link

Photographer

LightDreams

Posts: 4457

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

1) As far as your question about how digital sensors compare to film, digital sensors are just fine when it comes to dynamic range.   Good modern digital cameras, at base ISO, typically have 12 to 15 stops of dynamic range (some cameras have even more).

So as long as you don't blow out your highlights, and you're working with RAW digital files, you have a tremendous ability (in post production) to recover detail in somewhat overexposed and greatly underexposed areas of the shots.  Some brands and models are better than others (noise in the shadows, etc), of course, but you get the idea.

Having said that, exposing for street lamps AND for stars is REALLY extreme, which is why I suggested an alternative approach.


2) As far as your question related to effectively using "levels" to limit your high ends, again you're generally not going to be doing it "in camera".  There are some profiles to give you a wider (more compressed) range for your "in camera" jpeg image processing, but nothing like what you're talking about.

Again, as long as you don't completely blow out your highlights (no details left to be "captured"), and you're at least still capturing "something" at the low end, AND you're working with RAW images shot at a base or reasonably low ISO, then you have tremendous leeway.  Typically 12 to 15 stops of dynamic range that you can work with in post production.  That's REALLY good, but still not enough to pull off complete "miracles"!

Sep 11 22 12:57 pm Link

Photographer

Frozen Instant Imagery

Posts: 4152

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
How comparable is a digital sensor to film? Can you control sensitivity after an image is detected? For example if you wanted to long exposure stars, but also there are street lights that would blow out the image? No way to ignore light above a certain level?

Film had less dynamic range than a digital sensor has. Slide film, in particular, has a much smaller dynamic range (I don’t remember the numbers, but something like 5-7 stops?)

There isn’t a way to stop exposure on a digital sensor once it reaches a certain point, excepting, of course, that it stops once it reaches saturation (blown highlight). But you can’t do that with film, either.

Several people have suggested stacking multiple exposures - that’s a solution, and more practical than looking for a sensor with unusual properties.

Sep 11 22 06:05 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1669

Buffalo, New York, US

Frozen Instant Imagery wrote:

Film had less dynamic range than a digital sensor has. Slide film, in particular, has a much smaller dynamic range (I don’t remember the numbers, but something like 5-7 stops?)

There isn’t a way to stop exposure on a digital sensor once it reaches a certain point, excepting, of course, that it stops once it reaches saturation (blown highlight). But you can’t do that with film, either.

Several people have suggested stacking multiple exposures - that’s a solution, and more practical than looking for a sensor with unusual properties.

What if one can select certain light sources that the sensor can ignore all together? Just draw on viewfinder areas to black out?

Sep 11 22 08:34 pm Link

Photographer

LightDreams

Posts: 4457

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
What if one can select certain light sources that the sensor can ignore all together? Just draw on viewfinder areas to black out?

In camera?   Short answer:  No.

Camera companies design "in camera" features that they believe there is quite significant demand for.  And, usually, where the market has already PROVEN that such a demand exists.  So you might want to temper your expectations somewhat.

Personally, I suspect that if you talk to those who design the cameras, the first thing they'll say is "that is a post production" issue.  Or, modified to some degree in close to "real-time" with good tethering software (on the computer's side).  But NOT "in camera".  And certainly not editing out parts of the sensor "before the shot"...

Sep 11 22 08:50 pm Link

Photographer

Studio NSFW

Posts: 781

Pacifica, California, US

What if one can select certain light sources that the sensor can ignore all together? Just draw on viewfinder areas to black out?

Light doesn’t work that way either.  All light sources are emiting  photons, which are traveling in a straight line from their source until they hit  something. The sensor couldn’t know whether a photon was emitted by a streetlight or by the moon. There are such things as sensors that are only sensitive to specific wavelengths  of light and so would “Ignore” a light source not emitting in that wavelength but that’s not what you are describing.

So far  as sensitivity, digital sensors have up to 15 stops of dynamic range depending on the sensor.   Negative film had 7 stops, color negative 5 stops, and transparency film had less than a stop of dynamic range.  Dynamic range being that exposure latitude between no light, so sensor reads black, and too much light, so sensor reads pure white.

For what OP is describing ,  you’d handle that with multiple exposures, multiple frames and deal with it in post.

Sep 12 22 06:15 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20621

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

When I was a rep for Kodak Digital Imaging I was given a whole bunch of cameras to use and demonstrate.
We had one of the first cameras that had capabilities of doing long exposures... I'm talking many many minutes long.

When I created long exposure photos the photos came out great looking.  There was no 'bleeding' from light  (ie: halos around a subject).  I was kind of astonished at the quality from a relatively cheap camera.

Then I analyzed a few things.  First I noticed that the processing time of the photo (the amount of time it takes for the photo to appear after the shutter is released) was exponentially longer with every second of exposure.  The other things that I noticed were some light streaks (from passing vehicles for instance) seemed to have a slight break in them, and more evenly spaced breaks in them as the exposures got longer.

Then I figured out that the super long exposures were just several separate photos put together by the processor in the camera.  Basically it was the same as stacking, but built into the camera.

I'm not 100% sure but I have a feeling that's still how super long exposures on digital cameras still work, except now the cameras operate much faster so the slight gap that might appear in a streak of light isn't really seen anymore because the time between the two photos is shortened by the operating speed of the camera.

Sep 12 22 08:34 am Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11729

Olney, Maryland, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Sensor sensitivity?

As I understand things, sensor sensitivity is a physical property of the silicon wafer, it's not variable. ISO changes are created by electronic amplification.

Sep 13 22 07:54 am Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1669

Buffalo, New York, US

Perhaps a way to delete overly bright objects all together in post using an auto function and overlapping it with the darker version in the other photo exposure?

Sep 13 22 08:14 pm Link