KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:
The selfish people are those around them who ignored all of the warning signs and chosen to not take them seriously. I know many loved ones do all it takes to save them, but so many of them choose to ignore them, then call them selfish . . . guess it's too hard to look in the mirror.

I just witnessed a wife refused to help her husband saying he was playing his mind games.  It is so sad.

Connor Photography wrote:

I just witnessed a wife refused to help her husband saying he was playing his mind games.  It is so sad.

I'm sorry to hear that. Some people really need to wake up. So many people choose to only believe someone is sick ( physical or mental ) when the funeral comes around and then suddenly they want to be there and care and take it all so seriously. It's a little late then.

ernst tischler wrote:
This thread is sort of in line with what a friend was telling me yesterday.

He spent about 25 years in Hollywood, working for a company that provided confidential personal trainers and fitness programs for celebrities to prepare for movie roles.

It is his observation that some celebrities keep themselves busy during the off times (between films or performances) and in his opinion, these people are generally more healthy both physically and mentally.

He says that some celebs seem to retreat back into their large homes for weeks at a time, only coming out when work requires it.  Even though there may be other people around, those people are usually employees or "parasites", so the celeb is in effect still alone.

"I really felt sorry for a lot of them" he said, "they have fame and fortune, but are so alone."

This is what I find both so fascinating and so dreadful about this matter: it almost seems like there is no real consensus on it.

Because my sister-in-law ---a PhD in psychology who is often called to testify at trial as subject matter expert on mental states--- and her peers actually suggest the exact opposite, as it applies to "high-functioning/high-profile" folks like entertainment-industry celebrities, outstanding athletes, CEOs, politicians and the like: those who are constantly on the move, filling their calendars with work and leisure activities and social engagements and charity work and so on, are often desperately trying to fill gaps that would otherwise leave them alone in their heads, which is their worst possible scenario, because then they would be forced to face the underlying mental condition they are urgently trying to avoid facing.

On the other hand, those who are able to establish a work/life balance that includes time alone, with lengthy stretches of peace and quiet suitable to self-reflection and meditation, are the ones who are clearly most comfortable in their own heads and are therefore able to successfully sustain true physical/mental balance for the long run.

And then we have "systems" like Scientology, which suggest that psychologists and psychiatrists are all full of crap and are their own variety of "parasitic" entities, so they appeal to those high-functioning folks (particularly in the entertainment industry) from a different angle, indicating that there are other specialized means to addressing and "fixing" anxieties and maladies and problems... which, unsurprisingly, just happen to also require great expenditures of time, toil and treasure.

Connor Photography wrote:
I just witnessed a wife refused to help her husband saying he was playing his mind games.  It is so sad.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that. Some people really need to wake up. So many people choose to only believe someone is sick ( physical or mental ) when the funeral comes around and then suddenly they want to be there and care and take it all so seriously. It's a little late then.

I truly believe that lots of suicides were like that. Everything is closing in and no one wants to listen except the stranger on the lone at the HELP center.  No one wants to want to die.

udor wrote:
"Thoughts on Depression and Suicide"




The current demise of the passing of one of our most beloved actors and comedians, Robin Williams, stirred this debate about depression and suicide in the public eye and you read so many opinions of people that most likely have not suffered clinical depression and feelings of suicide.

D/S are not always caused by the feeling of having no self worth... it is sometimes also the feeling to be tired and exhausted from struggling, to make it, to make it against external circumstances that you are just so tired fighting against. "No more!", is what you are telling yourself...

In fact, it could also mean that the hopelessness comes from your knowledge how much you can offer, how much you can accomplish and being aware of this incredible potential that you have... but there is this wall... the one you can't overcome, or you know it will get better, sometimes in the future... but... you are just tired...

You might want to end it, you might try something, methods to suffocate yourself, until you notice it doesn't work, because it takes too long and in the end... your body screams for life, your mind screams for life and opportunity...

But until that moment... you don't want to talk to a "suicide help line..." you don't want them to know... you don't want them to talk you out of it and your friends, the closest ones you are not telling them either... the demons your are fighting inside, because you have to be strong for them, you have to support your friends emotionally and can't show weakness... because that would be irresponsible of you...

... and... you don't want to be labelled... so, you suffer clinical depression, but you don't want to take medication prescribed to you, because more than the times of your depression, you fear the dependence on chemical happiness.

I have heard and read and have been explained many times that most highly creative people and artists suffer depression... the artist mind is wired for different kind of perception it has been measured in the laboratory... so... we have to live with it... and not telling anybody about it...

... hence... those thoughts I just put down... they are hypothetical of course...

People should learn about the deeper and complex levels of depression... no judgment!

Rest In Peace, Robin Williams!

udor

Bro-hug for posting that....

I think we (people) are too quick to judge others who suffer from any type of mental illness or suffering. I grew up with a parent who was treated several times for issues.

Seeing it first hand and living it as a child I was angry and bitter about it but once I became an adult who had responsibilities and my own issues in life I came to understand how taxing and overwhelming some things can be.

I've learned to reflect on my own life and have empathy and try to gain understanding when dealing with others who have issues.

So I guess the main thing is to try and have patience, understanding, love, and keep a watchful eye.

Connor Photography wrote:

Connor Photography wrote:
I just witnessed a wife refused to help her husband saying he was playing his mind games.  It is so sad.

I truly believe that lots of suicides were like that. Everything is closing in and no one wants to listen except the stranger on the lone at the HELP center.  No one wants to want to die.

But so many times it is a stranger that saves the life of someone on a suicide mission and if a stranger has more heart than those that person knows, thank God for that stranger. Some of us really have no one in our lives who we can count on and if a stranger does make that difference that's so much better then no one at all.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:
But so many times it is a stranger that saves the life of someone on a suicide mission and if a stranger has more heart than those that person knows, thank God for that stranger. Some of us really have no one in our lives who we can count on and if a stranger does make that difference that's so much better then no one at all.

I don't know if its a case of more heart, but rather that they've been around it so long living with someone who has issues that  they've become de-sensitized to it and maybe aren't as perceptive as someone seeing it with a fresh pair of eyes.

T Brown wrote:

I don't know if its a case of more heart, but rather that they've been around it so long living with someone who has issues that  they've become de-sensitized to it and maybe aren't as perceptive as someone seeing it with a fresh pair of eyes.

I bet it happens both ways. For instance, I have a lot of serious health issues and I lost a few people who I thought cared about me over it. One of which was my step-sister who doesn't believe that I'm sick. She also didn't believe her sister-in-law was sick til the funeral. Some people are just useless and heartless while others do build up such a tolerance for it by being around it so much.

My brother-in-law is suffering from depression as well as a friend of mine. They've chosen to let the doctors fill them up on all kinds of drugs that have horrible side effects that are making them way worse then they were in the first place. I tried to help my friend A LOT for yrs and always hit a brick wall with him. I really don't know what else to do for him other then constantly let him know that I'm here for whatever he needs. As for my brother-in-law my husband keeps telling me he's worried about him and he's really upset about it, but he doesn't know how to talk with him about it. His family doesn't know how to talk, so I can understand, but he should at least try. The longer he puts it off the more of a chance he'll be carrying a burden on his shoulders that no one care bare.

udor wrote:
Thank you everybody for your varied input... I like the way this discussion is going...

What bothers me about the online discussions are the people who point at R.W. and say that his fame and fortune didn't make him happy so he killed himself.

I find this so ignorant, I don't even know where to start... but that is the reason I did this post as a blog entry on my Tumblr and shared it on facebook, where other people started to share as well.

Money and fame has nothing to do with the depression creative people go through... there was an interesting article that I was referencing a few months ago, why creative people are eccentric... and they showed that the brain shows a different wiring that's why the perception is different and that's why people who create a lot often suffer clinical depression, anxiety and addictions.

History, even recent history shows the high level of depressions and suicides or early deaths (addictions) by artists in their fields.

If you are at this wall... it doesn't matter how much money stands behind you... the wall is in front of you!

It's hard for people to understand that depression is clinical and there doesn't have to be personal issues, money issues etc. I keep hearing people say that someone isn't depressed because everything is " fine! " . . . it doesn't matter if everything is fine on the surface and on paper, there can still be depression. Too many people confuse the word for something along the lines of, " I saw this gorgeous pair of shoes on sale, but they didn't come in my size. I'm so depressed! " . . . they just don't get what depression means and many people don't understand that a mental health issue is much like a physical issue, you can't just snap your fingers and be well.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

I bet it happens both ways. For instance, I have a lot of serious health issues and I lost a few people who I thought cared about me over it. One of which was my step-sister who doesn't believe that I'm sick. She also didn't believe her sister-in-law was sick til the funeral. Some people are just useless and heartless while others do build up such a tolerance for it by being around it so much.

My brother-in-law is suffering from depression as well as a friend of mine. They've chosen to let the doctors fill them up on all kinds of drugs that have horrible side effects that are making them way worse then they were in the first place. I tried to help my friend A LOT for yrs and always hit a brick wall with him. I really don't know what else to do for him other then constantly let him know that I'm here for whatever he needs. As for my brother-in-law my husband keeps telling me he's worried about him and he's really upset about it, but he doesn't know how to talk with him about it. His family doesn't know how to talk, so I can understand, but he should at least try. The longer he puts it off the more of a chance he'll be carrying a burden on his shoulders that no one care bare.

Oh no, that is inexcusable and I'm sorry for that.

I am thinking more in general, I am sure as you've stated that there are those who don't have the resources (heart, patience, empathy) to try and understand or help and that is a tragedy.

Some people just may feel crippled not knowing what to do to help so they don't, some may just not "get it" and think that its a phase or just a case of the "blues" I get what your saying totally.

The thing is with most people who are ill they may not even realize it themselves or are thinking I can cope or it will pass, but look at how many people that get put in meds go off them because they don't like how they make them feel, don't like taking them, can't afford them, or just don't think they help.

I've heard that the vast majority of our homeless population is composed of that demographic.

T Brown wrote:

Oh no, that is inexcusable and I'm sorry for that.

I am thinking more in general, I am sure as you've stated that there are those who don't have the resources (heart, patience, empathy) to try and understand or help and that is a tragedy.

Some people just may feel crippled not knowing what to do to help so they don't, some may just not "get it" and think that its a phase or just a case of the "blues" I get what your saying totally.

The thing is with most people who are ill they may not even realize it themselves or are thinking I can cope or it will pass, but look at how many people that get put in meds go off them because they don't like how they make them feel, don't like taking them, can't afford them, or just don't think they help.

I've heard that the vast majority of our homeless population is composed of that demographic.

You're right. I guess I've just seen a lot of people bashing those who have committed suicide and I find that so disgusting. I have no idea how anyone feels they are in a place to not only attack someone who isn't here to defend themselves, but to also claim to understand what this person was going thru and they should've just dealt with it instead of being selfish to commit suicide. So, I just find it hard to believe that many people out there really want to be supportive. My step fathers sister was very depressed and she was being supervised and unfortunately was left alone for a few mins when she took her life. I know another person who committed suicide who reached out many times just before he died and everyone ignored him. The other 2 apparently didn't give out warnings, but I find that hard to believe because people don't generally commit suicide without warnings and signs.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

You're right. I guess I've just seen a lot of people bashing those who have committed suicide and I find that so disgusting. I have no idea how anyone feels they are in a place to not only attack someone who isn't here to defend themselves, but to also claim to understand what this person was going thru and they should've just dealt with it instead of being selfish to commit suicide. So, I just find it hard to believe that many people out there really want to be supportive. My step fathers sister was very depressed and she was being supervised and unfortunately was left alone for a few mins when she took her life. I know another person who committed suicide who reached out many times just before he died and everyone ignored him. The other 2 apparently didn't give out warnings, but I find that hard to believe because people don't generally commit suicide without warnings and signs.

People, myself included can be very good at hiding what we're going through if we need or want to.

No one I know or any family members would guess what I'm going through right now, not just because its hard to talk about but because in some weird way I don't want to be a burden or have to talk about it to a hundred different people.

I've brought it up here twice as a point to make a comment but not looking for pity or even comfort just because it is what it is and there's no point on dwelling on it.

T Brown wrote:

People, myself included can be very good at hiding what we're going through if we need or want to.

No one I know or any family members would guess what I'm going through right now, not just because its hard to talk about but because in some weird way I don't want to be a burden or have to talk about it to a hundred different people.

I've brought it up here twice as a point to make a comment but not looking for pity or even comfort just because it is what it is and there's no point on dwelling on it.

Whatever it is, if it's something u need to talk about u should reach out to someone whether that be someone close to you or someone who you think can relate who isn't invested.

We all have different coping skills and only you know your limit on yours and when/if you need help.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:
Whatever it is, if it's something u need to talk about u should reach out to someone whether that be someone close to you or someone who you think can relate who isn't invested.

See, the weird thing is... if I am in such a situation... all the way deep in, I do not want to talk to anybody about it...

One of my best friends, considerably older, he tells me to talk to him, or to call him anytime, and he means it... but, as I said... when I am deep... hitting that wall... I don't need or want to communicate what is going on.

"Talking" might be very advisable for people who feel desperate... and when in that state, a different perspective might and can help them... if they see no way out... a friend or counselor might be able to set perspective straight... this doesn't work if you are just tired of struggling, tired of life... you feel enough is enough.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

Whatever it is, if it's something u need to talk about u should reach out to someone whether that be someone close to you or someone who you think can relate who isn't invested.

We all have different coping skills and only you know your limit on yours and when/if you need help.

I really do appreciate what you're saying but I am in the same category as Udor.

Talking at this point is redundant at best, its time to make choices and move on but they are not choices I want to be making.

udor wrote:

See, the weird thing is... if I am in such a situation... all the way deep in, I do not want to talk to anybody about it...

One of my best friends, considerably older, he tells me to talk to him, or to call him anytime, and he means it... but, as I said... when I am deep... hitting that wall... I don't need or want to communicate what is going on.

"Talking" might be very advisable for people who feel desperate... and when in that state, a different perspective might and can help them... if they see no way out... a friend or counselor might be able to set perspective straight... this doesn't work if you are just tired of struggling, tired of life... you feel enough is enough.

You don't want to talk with someone who gets it and gets u? I understand not wanting to talk, but that is only when I've given up on being understood or taken seriously. I don't know that I would ever choose to not talk with someone who I knew would relate to me. Not that I know anyone like that. lol

And it takes a lot to feel like enough is enough . . . there are a lot of doors slamming to get to that . . . I think.

T Brown wrote:

I really do appreciate what you're saying but I am in the same category as Udor.

Talking at this point is redundant at best, its time to make choices and move on but they are not choices I want to be making.

I'm really sorry to hear that.

I am in the same situation and have been for over a yr and I have pretty much shut down emotionally, but I do think talking things out can be healthy, but only with the right person and that is hard to find.

Whatever you're going thru I really do hope you can find a choice avail to you that you didn't think you had!

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

I'm really sorry to hear that.

I am in the same situation and have been for over a yr and I have pretty much shut down emotionally, but I do think talking things out can be healthy, but only with the right person and that is hard to find.

Whatever you're going thru I really do hope you can find a choice avail to you that you didn't think you had!

I hope the same for you.

I've always been of the mind as time passes so do the trials and tribulations. Its just a matter of putting my head down, planting my feet firmly and mustering through.

Toto Photo wrote:
From my bipolar friend:

Perhaps this will help people understand that it [depression] isn't an emotional state like sadness but is rather a disease like diabetes. Just a different organ.

I wish it would, but it won't.

T Brown wrote:

I hope the same for you.

I've always been of the mind as time passes so do the trials and tribulations. Its just a matter of putting my head down, planting my feet firmly and mustering through.

You are right and with an attitude like that you are more likely to reach what you need.

Toto Photo wrote:
From my bipolar friend:

Perhaps this will help people understand that it [depression] isn't an emotional state like sadness but is rather a disease like diabetes. Just a different organ.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
I wish it would, but it won't.

I've known this wonderful artist for 25 years and his expression (see above) really struck a chord with me--helped me to get through my ignorance. So it helped one person, me. I posted it here hoping it might help even one other.

Toto Photo wrote:

Toto Photo wrote:
From my bipolar friend:

Perhaps this will help people understand that it [depression] isn't an emotional state like sadness but is rather a disease like diabetes. Just a different organ.

I've known this wonderful artist for 25 years and his expression (see above) really struck a chord with me--helped me to get through my ignorance. So it helped one person, me. I posted it here hoping it might help even one other.

It'll help individuals, but it's going to take a long time, or possibly something incredibly big, to change the general population's opinions of mental illness.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

udor wrote:
See, the weird thing is... if I am in such a situation... all the way deep in, I do not want to talk to anybody about it...

One of my best friends, considerably older, he tells me to talk to him, or to call him anytime, and he means it... but, as I said... when I am deep... hitting that wall... I don't need or want to communicate what is going on.

"Talking" might be very advisable for people who feel desperate... and when in that state, a different perspective might and can help them... if they see no way out... a friend or counselor might be able to set perspective straight... this doesn't work if you are just tired of struggling, tired of life... you feel enough is enough.

You don't want to talk with someone who gets it and gets u?

You don't want to talk to anyone: it 'costs' too much, and the expectation of benefit is usually zero, if not negative.

One reason there aren't as many suicides as there might be is that it takes some effort, and some of the most depressed people don't even have the energy to get out of bed. (It's also why some anti-depressants can be risky, as they improve energy before improving mood.)

Kevin Connery wrote:

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

udor wrote:
See, the weird thing is... if I am in such a situation... all the way deep in, I do not want to talk to anybody about it...

One of my best friends, considerably older, he tells me to talk to him, or to call him anytime, and he means it... but, as I said... when I am deep... hitting that wall... I don't need or want to communicate what is going on.

"Talking" might be very advisable for people who feel desperate... and when in that state, a different perspective might and can help them... if they see no way out... a friend or counselor might be able to set perspective straight... this doesn't work if you are just tired of struggling, tired of life... you feel enough is enough.

You don't want to talk with someone who gets it and gets u?

You don't want to talk to anyone: it 'costs' too much, and the expectation of benefit is usually zero, if not negative.

One reason there aren't as many suicides as there might be is that it takes some effort, and some of the most depressed people don't even have the energy to get out of bed. (It's also why some anti-depressants can be risky, as they improve energy before improving mood.)

Very well said. I think there's also an intense fear, not of dying, but of not being successful. I know a guy who tried to commit suicide, but was unsuccessful. He was unconscious when they rescued him and since then he has been living with extreme brain damage. You can't have a conversation with him. He understands some words, but he doesn't communicate back with words. That is torture for him. I think living like that is a huge fear.

Toto Photo wrote:
I've known this wonderful artist for 25 years and his expression (see above) really struck a chord with me--helped me to get through my ignorance. So it helped one person, me. I posted it here hoping it might help even one other.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
It'll help individuals, but it's going to take a long time, or possibly something incredibly big, to change the general population's opinions of mental illness.

Of course you're right. For a moment I naively thought since Robin's suicide was a catalyst for me to ask some deeper questions, that it might provoke others, i.e., his death might be the "something incredibly big" you refer to. I know it probably won't be, but it might be enough, as you say, for some "individuals". Of course, abolishing slavery, women's suffrage, and the equal rights amendment (just to name a few) probably all started with individuals. Big changes take time.
Some of the individual posts in this thread give me hope.

Lohkee wrote:
Sometimes, people know when it is time to go. Pop-psychologists can call it whatever they want and analyze it to death (pardon the pun). It is, after all, how they create a market and make bank. I've worked hard all of my life. When the time comes you can rest assured that I will take myself out of the gene pool with a .45 to the head. Leave my wife and children all that I have worked so hard for, or give it all to the "loving/caring" corporations called hospitals. My path is very clear (albeit hopefully not for a while yet).

I really don't give a flying fuck what the Pop-psychologists have to say when I'm gone. Hell, I'm a nobody, they won't even notice. I'll be dead and those whom I love will get what little I have managed to save. Thankfully, my wife and children understand and (sorta kinda of) support me.

I must address this first and right now. You ARE a somebody. You are A Lohkee whom I shared many of good times with in the chat room. We had plenty of great conversations and good laughs. You played a part in my life. You AND Huey even though I didnt spend as much time. I think she is adorable. I love your doggy( but I admit I forget her name). I hope your garden got growing nicely for you this summer, and that maybe Huey let you play around in the kitchen like you wanted. You are a somebody to people. Be one for yourself Then you are all set. Love ya

Lohkee wrote:
Sometimes, people know when it is time to go. Pop-psychologists can call it whatever they want and analyze it to death (pardon the pun). It is, after all, how they create a market and make bank. I've worked hard all of my life. When the time comes you can rest assured that I will take myself out of the gene pool with a .45 to the head. Leave my wife and children all that I have worked so hard for, or give it all to the "loving/caring" corporations called hospitals. My path is very clear (albeit hopefully not for a while yet).

I really don't give a flying fuck what the Pop-psychologists have to say when I'm gone. Hell, I'm a nobody, they won't even notice. I'll be dead and those whom I love will get what little I have managed to save. Thankfully, my wife and children understand and (sorta kinda of) support me.

Yep.

And there are many, many sides to every story.

It is not surprising that people take their own lives.

What is surprising is that more people don't, given the amount of suffering going on in the world.

Reality is simple: from the moment you are born, you are destined to die. That is a given, so no surprise. What happens been A and B is the real question.