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New strobe user - question...
Hi all, I recently purchased an Alien Bee B800 with a stand and a 60" Silver/White umbrella. I tested it and I can't seem to be able to use a faster shutter speed than 1/40 at f5.6 I have the set up about 8 feet from the subject on full power. I'm using a Nikon D70 set at ISO 200 Any suggestions? Oct 27 05 01:36 pm Link What happens when your shutter speed is faster than 1/40? How are you syncing with the AB? Oct 27 05 01:40 pm Link If I go any faster than 1/40 it starts getting on the underexposed side. I'm using a hot shoe to PC cord adaptor and a sync cord. Oct 27 05 01:41 pm Link Okay, so it sounds like your photos are including a good deal of ambient light. Try this: turn off all the continuous lights and test our your results where the strobe is the only light source. When you're using strobes, the shutter speed should not matter very much. I usually shoot at 1/180, just to make sure the ambient light doesn't affect the photo. (Note that longer shutter speeds can be used for effects, but I won't get into that here.) Oct 27 05 01:50 pm Link sorry to go a tad off topic but why only 1 strobe? ur really going to want at least 1 more. Oct 27 05 01:50 pm Link One other thing, what does the flash sound like when it pops? How different is it at full power than at minimum power? Can you feel a good deal of heat coming off when it flashes at full power? Oct 27 05 01:52 pm Link I'll try that suggestion later on today. I was testing in a room with large windows, so maybe that was the problem. I'll be getting more strobes soon. I do have other lights, but they are hot lights - PhotoFlex/Starlight set ups. Thanks, Bill Oct 27 05 01:54 pm Link To rule out a strobe/sync problem I'd test in pitch black at 1/30, 1/60, 1/125 with the same strobe setting. All should come out with exact same exposure. If not, something's wrong. If they do, it may indeed just be an ambient light/underpowered flash problem (although an 800 should be just fine.) Oct 27 05 01:55 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: It does seem pretty warm and it makes a good pop sound, although it's not really loud or anything. I don't have much experience with strobes so I really have nothing to compare to as far as past experience goes. Oct 27 05 01:56 pm Link iso200_bryan wrote: Many of the "masters" use one light. I asked David Hickey about it and he said "Why use more then one light? there's only one sun. This is what we try and emulate in the studio" Oct 27 05 01:56 pm Link luxmosaic wrote: I'll take your word on that, but it really doesn't make sense to me that those shutter speeds would result in the same exposure. If that's true, I've been using hot lights way too long and I should have made the switch years ago. Oct 27 05 01:59 pm Link To expand on what was said previously, your shutter speed should be all but irrelevant when you're shooting with strobes. In the words of Rolando Gomez, "When you're shooting with strobes your strobe *is* your shutter speed." Your light control with strobes is your aperture: you set your shutter speed appropriately and then you don't touch it unless your subject changes. To change your exposure, you open up or stop down. If your shutter speed significantly affects the exposure of your photograph, your ambient light (light other than your strobe) is overwhelming your strobe. You need to turn your strobe WAY up. If it's already all the way up, you've got a problem of some sort, or else your ambient lights are just too bright.  Note that this does not apply to "fill flash" or similar techniques, but I get the idea you're trying to use your strobe for main lighting. Try this: Put your camera in TV (shutter priority) mode. Set your shutter speed to your camera's sync speed. (If you don't know what it is, set it to 1/60, as any modern camera should be able to sync to that.) Take a picture with the strobe on, and with it off. The camera should pick the same aperture for both (since it can't talk to the flash) and the strobe picture should be HIGHLY overexposed. If the pictures are anywhere close to the same exposure, you need to move your strobe closer, turn up the power, remove excess modifiers, shut off hotlights, or something, because it's not doing the job. Either that, or it's broken. If the camera won't pick a constant aperture, go to full manual and just shoot something like 1/60 at f8 with and without strobe. If the pictures aren't *worlds* apart, there's a problem. M Oct 27 05 02:09 pm Link iso200_bryan wrote: I disagree. A TON of stuff can be done with only one head. Less is more unless there's a reason. Oct 27 05 02:09 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: In a pitch black room, the difference between 1/30 and 1/125 is very little. Sure, it's two stops, but if you're already underexposing by 5-10 stops, you'll still end up with a completely black image. Oct 27 05 02:14 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Bill Tracy wrote: I don't think mine was nearly that loud...hmm. Oct 27 05 02:16 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: The flash duration is a couple thousands of a second, and it fires during the shutter being open, so whether the shutter open window is 1/30 or 1/125 the full flash firing happens in that time. So, in absence of ambient light the full exposure happens in both cases. Anything faster than 1/125 may cause sync problems, so that's why I'd make that the end point. Oct 27 05 02:24 pm Link Ok I get it now. That makes sense since it's in pitch black. I just went into my basement, which isn't quite pitch black, but it seemed to work much better. I was able to get a normal exposure at 1/200 at f11 with the B800 at half power - woo hoo! It does pop pretty loud, but I'm sure I can snap my fingers louder - lol! I have a TFP set up for next week, so I'll be able to get some good practice with this new toy. Up until now, almost everything I've done has been with continuous lighting, so hopefully I can use this to improve on my work. Thanks! Bill Oct 27 05 02:51 pm Link Bill - question: do you use a flash/light meter? If not, I recommend one. Then you can measure the ambient light and a flash exposure so that you can calculate whether the ambient is going to affect the shot. Many people swear by chimping the histogram, but I find it to be a pain in the behind Oct 27 05 03:00 pm Link No light meter...yet. I'll have to search the house for some more stuff to sell on eBay - that's how I got the B800 - LOL! Oct 27 05 03:03 pm Link Oh!! Your gonna have fun!!! (:-------- Hj Oct 27 05 03:04 pm Link I use a Norman ML 600 that is rated at 600 ws. When its in a Photek softlighter (umbrella w/diffusion cover) I can get f/11 -16 so your AB 800ws strobe should be plenty powerful in an unbrella. Oct 27 05 03:11 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: Hehe. Luckily the light meter should run only $100 on eBay. Minolta III or IV or a Sekonic 308/328. Not top of the line but they work like a charm. Oct 27 05 03:12 pm Link I highly recommend you use a flash meter and hook up the AB800 to it to give you the correct exposure setting for you camera and you will have to select the adequate shutter speed and ISO. However, you did not give us any infomation on what was your white balance setting with your camera. I suspect this may also be a problem. If you use the Automatic White balance setting it sucks. Try using the Flash setting when using your AB800 and the exposure will be much better than the automatic setting. I had the same problem when I first used my AB's and it was my use of the AWB. Get a flash meter. It eliminates all the guess work until you know what the correct shutter and f stop. With time you will know with the need for the flash meter. I also played with a neutral density filter and went one stop below the flash meter on some shots when I want to have no shadows on facials shots. Oct 27 05 03:41 pm Link Thanks, I definately am looking into getting a flash meter. Is the Sekonic L-398 any good? Oct 27 05 03:50 pm Link Flashmeter... And you may start thinking about pocket wizards Check out http://www.williamcoupon.com/ from examples of work with one light only. Oct 27 05 03:51 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: I do not think so. L-398 is not Flash meter. It is Analog Incident and Reflected Light Meter. Oct 27 05 03:57 pm Link mag-jr wrote: Well it would depend on the circunstances. I have 5 monolights and more and more I find myself using just one light and a reflector Oct 27 05 03:59 pm Link Thanks Oleg! Oct 27 05 03:59 pm Link Another vote for the Sekonic L-358. It reads the percentage that the ambiant is effecting the exposure. Good mid-level incident/reflective meter but the spot attactment is pricey. BTM. Oct 27 05 04:01 pm Link Another vote for using one light. Oct 27 05 04:05 pm Link You must set D70 in MANUAL mode. To sync with Alien Bee, I would recommend shutter speed of 1/125s to 1/250s, depending on Alien Bee. I would also use a flash meter right next to the subject with the meter's dome pointing at the camera lens. I would then trigger the Alien Bee to measure the exposure. Shutter speed does not matter in studio lighting as long as there is NO ambient light. The speed and duration of Alien Bee is so fast, so that's why camera shutter speed does not matter, as long as you are within the sync speed of the strobe. There is no way to measure the strobe light using your in-camera meter, due to the speed of the strobe, so you must use a flash meter. In studio photography, the recommended f-stop is usually f/4 - f/8. Step down the f-stop any more, will show both the subject's pores, acnes too much in detail, also making the background as sharp as the subject. Oct 27 05 07:03 pm Link Oleg wrote: Yet another vote for the L-358, though I rarely use it after the studio is set up. But it looks cool as hell when you pull it out. Oct 27 05 07:12 pm Link Thanks guys. All seems good now. I just had to eliminate the ambient light and it works like a charm. Now I'm just keeping an eye on ebay for flash meters  Bill Oct 28 05 06:01 am Link Here's my first test with the B800 added:  Ok, so I couldn't get a model so I had to pose for this myself - LOL! B800 set to half power with one of those umbrella/softbox things (42 inch one), 1000w starlight in a 36x48 PhotoFlex softbox pretty close to me on the right (my left in the shot). Another 1000w Starlight in a 24x36 PhotoFlex softbox behind me on the left ponting at the backdrop. 1/200 at f11 ISO200 No photoshopping at all in that one, but I would probably cut down the shine on my forehead - lol! Here's a second one that I edited somewhat:  Nov 03 05 03:41 pm Link Not to hijack this thread - but can someone explain their preferences over using the silver umbrella vs the shoot-thru softbox. I have my opinions, but would like to know what the others here think. Nov 03 05 08:20 pm Link The D70 has a maximum flash sync speed of 1/500 second. I don't know the duration of your flash. I never had any problems with several different types of cameras and various flashes using 1/250. If you look at the camera's LCD screen straight on you should be able to judge exposure pretty good without a flash meter. Nov 03 05 08:48 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: This isn't going to work. IMO, you can't mix a Starlight and a B800 unless you want to spend all your time guessing about the exposure. For instance, in this case it appears that the Starlight is putting out more light than the B800 but the lighting still isn't all that great. Maybe using the Starlights for the background will work and maybe it won't but it'd be better to get another AB to use for fill. Nov 03 05 11:57 pm Link mag-jr wrote: Amen....I only use one strobe..and an SB-800 on my D70....and in fact I was on the phone today with David...funny guy and he did mention the one light thing !! He rocks !! Nov 04 05 12:10 am Link This might sound stupid (maybe I missed some info in the thread) but are you using your camera in full manual mode? If you are using it in auto mode, it could cause some of the problems you are experiencing (the built-in meter doesn't understand the information it is given.) Just a thought. Nov 04 05 12:14 am Link Paul Ferrara wrote: I do plan on getting another B800 soon, and I did think that combining strobes and hot lights would be Ok, as I started a thread about it some time ago and everyone that replied said it would be fine - lol! Nov 04 05 06:03 am Link |
