Brandon Ching wrote:
and before anyone says anything, my entire portfolio was shot with AlienBees.

Why would anyone say anything?  "Light is Light."  If you know how to control it and the AB's work for you, why would you ever change?

There are a million reasons to buy higher-end lights:  Features, specs, modifiers, etc, etc.  But, at the core, "light is light."  Your port shows that you know how to control it..... excellent work.

Brandon Ching wrote:
I was not impressed with the ABR800's build quality or results..... at all. I'd be very interested in seeing what the Zeus Ring Master is capable of. I'm on the fence for either a Hensel or Profoto ringflash but will consider the ZRM till I can afford big boy lights... and before anyone says anything, my entire portfolio was shot with AlienBees.

Profoto all the way.  Currently I am using Hensel.

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:
Why would anyone say anything?  "Light is Light."  If you know how to control it and the AB's work for you, why would you ever change?

There are a million reasons to buy higher-end lights:  Features, specs, modifiers, etc, etc.  But, at the core, "light is light."  Your port shows that you know how to control it..... excellent work.

Thanks. I just felt like I had to throw that in there for the equipment whores with elitist attitudes saying "you'll never get anywhere with AlienBees, [insert brand name here] all the way!" Will upgrading my lights change the quality of my work? The difference would probably be neglible for what I'm currently doing...

I too, believe 'light is light' and my only reasoning for wanting to upgrade to a better system is because of the build quality, power, and modifiers that are available on the higher end professional gear.

Brandon Ching wrote:
and before anyone says anything, my entire portfolio was shot with AlienBees.

brandon, ahhha this must be why you've become a talented ps retoucher?

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:

Why would anyone say anything?  "Light is Light."  If you know how to control it and the AB's work for you, why would you ever change?

There are a million reasons to buy higher-end lights:  Features, specs, modifiers, etc, etc.  But, at the core, "light is light."  Your port shows that you know how to control it..... excellent work.

I light my shoots by igniting my flatulence with a cigarette lighter!  (Could I get a compliment from you too?)

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Brandon Ching wrote:
Simple solution:

Buy what you can afford.
Buy only what you need.
Stop worrying about what others are shooting with.

yup. Pretty much what I was getting at with a lot less words

Brandon Ching wrote:
I was not impressed with the ABR800's build quality or results..... at all. I'd be very interested in seeing what the Zeus Ring Master is capable of. I'm on the fence for either a Hensel or Profoto ringflash but will consider the ZRM till I can afford big boy lights... and before anyone says anything, my entire portfolio was shot with AlienBees.

Doesn't look like any of my cameras will fit the ringmaster because they all have the battery grip. Except maybe the RB67.

Terry Breedlove wrote:

Doesn't look like any of my cameras will fit the ringmaster because they all have the battery grip. Except maybe the RB67.

I hadn't really thought of that and I hate shooting without the battery grip.. camera just feels too small. I believe the bracket is adjustable and can accomodate the extra size of the grip, though I could be mistaken.

From their website:

The design accommodates cameras with lenses up to 4 inches in diameter, having a full range of adjustments for use with cameras of nearly all heights and depths.

Dan Howell wrote:
I also am wondering what their 'True Wattseconds' category means since the company has a history of obsuring the power of their units with misleading number designations.

Dan, this is always a tricky area regardless of what system we are talking about. The "wattsecond" rating we see on many proline packs including my beloved Speedotrons tells me nothing about the actual light emitted at the flash head, it only tells me how much energy has been sent to the lamp. Given that my Speedo's are 24 years old, I suspect that there  have been improvements in lamp technology (more efficient bulbs). I'm being silly here, I KNOW lamps have become more efficient. Not only that, the light efficiency is a function of the reflectors used, light modifiers, etc. The only thing wattsecond ratings tell us with any accuracy is the comparitive output within a specific line of packs attached to a specific lamp. In short, a 2400 ws Speedotron pack gives you one stop more light at a given distance than a 1200 ws Speedotron pack assuming both are sending full power to a 102 head with the same bulb and fitted with a standard Speedotron 7" reflector. A simple wattsecond rating tells you nothing about how much LIGHT a Speedotron pack produces relative to a Profoto pack with a similar ws rating.

That said, Buff does specify that one of the packs produces f45 at ISO 100 at ten feet (although once again they do not specify the reflector used). That is at least a somewhat useful measurement for comparitive purposes.

Obviously I go crazy when people start discussing WS ratings as if they had any useful meaning when comparing the light output of lights from different manufacturers. We have gone through this same problem with computer processors for years, simply listing the clock speed tells you very little about the final information output of an AMD processor compared to an Intel processor.

Fish
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 423
Miami Beach, Florida  33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

Dan Howell wrote:
I also am wondering what their 'True Wattseconds' category means since the company has a history of obsuring the power of their units with misleading number designations.

I think that's a somewhat disingenuous reading of history. But regardless of our disagreement on that, if you've looked at their website in the last couple of years, I think you would have to agree that whatever is in the distant past, they are being scrupulously careful about any discussion of wattseconds in their literature now.

I'd be interested in seeing you quote anything from their current literature or website that could be consided "obscuring" or "misleading" in regards to their power ratings. . . .

Paul

Terry Breedlove wrote:

Doesn't look like any of my cameras will fit the ringmaster because they all have the battery grip. Except maybe the RB67.

Well, if the ringmaster is the same size as the ABR800, then you are fine...I use my battery grip all the time with it

Cals Imaging Services wrote:
Doesn't this go back to that old saying...."Its a poor workman who blames his tools"?
So what if you can't get "store bought" accessories, make your own.
Why would I care if a light doesn't recycle for 3 or 5 seconds, it will take that long to tell the model the next pose.  If I want to shoot faster I'll get a video camera.

While I would agree that this holds true for beginners and novices, when you are shooting a spread for a magazine, you are looking for consistency and reliability.  There's been too many times where my White lightnings overheated or if the output was wrong for the shots that mattered.

Cals Imaging Services wrote:
If I want to shoot faster I'll get a video camera.

ROFLMAO!!!!

BEST QUOTE EVAH!!!!!!!!!

Nick Zantop wrote:
Yes, I know it is old news...but...

Shipments are scheduled to start in just a few days. Who has placed their orders?

http://alienbees.com/zpack.html

It's not Profoto...but looks very interesting and at a good price.

I'm not a huge fan of the sliding power control though. Would have been a good move if they had built in pocket wizard, but I guess they are trying to promote their own wireless triggers instead?

You can buy an 12V to 110 invertor for your car for about $50.00? My Tacoma PU has a built in 400W invertor. It fires my lights with no porblem????

Photos By JDS wrote:

You can buy an 12V to 110 invertor for your car for about $50.00? My Tacoma PU has a built in 400W invertor. It fires my lights with no porblem????

We are talking about different types of photography here.

Mark M Gong Photography wrote:

While I would agree that this holds true for beginners and novices, when you are shooting a spread for a magazine, you are looking for consistency and reliability.

I agree. It is not an argument about which brand is best, because any brand will yield super results if you try hard enough and know what you are doing. Consistency and reliability are very important when doing professional shoots for many reasons.

Time may be limited. If you are shooting a celebrity they may have only 10 minutes allotted for the photoshoot. Faster recycle time would be a fantastic thing to have in this case.

You may be in the middle of nowhere shooting a commercial shoot for a client. Your lights need to fire when they are supposed to fire, without fail. The pack needs to regulate the power accurately so you don't end up with random shots over or under exposed. Time is money for clients and proving that you have good, reliable equipment with which you can produce excellent results in a time frame is important.

I think the Zeus pack looks like a fantastic step in the right direction for Paul Buff's company. I'm sure any kinks that it has will be ironed out in short time. If any of you guys in South Florida get one of these, let me know - I'd like to try it out.

Photos By JDS wrote:

You can buy an 12V to 110 invertor for your car for about $50.00? My Tacoma PU has a built in 400W invertor. It fires my lights with no porblem????

Only if it's a true sine wave inverter.

It either needs to give a really good curve and work off a 12 volt battery or power a generator which gives a true sine wave by default.

Usually an decent sinewave intverter costs about 200 and up depending on the output.

Brandon Ching wrote:
Simple solution:

Buy what you can afford.
Buy only what you need.
Stop worrying about what others are shooting with.

exactly!

John Fisher wrote:
Actually, one of the more interesting pieces of information I picked up when I went that Alien Bee site was the announcement of a new Vagabond power source.

Hey, good catch - that's great news.  Cheaper, more output, a bit smaller case, same weight.

http://www.white-lightning.com/battery.html

Note how they're offering various discounts to people who bought the old units.  Very nice!

San Francisco Nudes wrote:

Hey, good catch - that's great news.  Cheaper, more output, a bit smaller case, same weight.

http://www.white-lightning.com/battery.html

Note how they're offering various discounts to people who bought the old units.  Very nice!

their service is always excellent and they certainly work hard to maintain happy customers

Cals Imaging Services wrote:
Why would I care if a light doesn't recycle for 3 or 5 seconds, it will take that long to tell the model the next pose.  If I want to shoot faster I'll get a video camera.

Do you direct each frame? 

You should try working with better models.  On a fashion shoot that 5 seconds will start to feel like an eternity.  It is frustrating to constantly wait on recycle time when you have models making great poses and you can't capture them because you know that if you try you will get under exposed frames.  Additionally, if you are constantly shooting right at the point of recycling the unit will constantly be charging and generating heat.  Judging from the build-quality of their other equipment, these are not exactly going to be the most robust packs ever made.

Dan Howell wrote:

Do you direct each frame? 

You should try working with better models.  On a fashion shoot that 5 seconds will start to feel like an eternity.  It is frustrating to constantly wait on recycle time when you have models making great poses and you can't capture them because you know that if you try you will get under exposed frames.  Additionally, if you are constantly shooting right at the point of recycling the unit will constantly be charging and generating heat.  Judging from the build-quality of their other equipment, these are not exactly going to be the most robust packs ever made.

i own bees...so far they have been good to me...but dan is on point here.

San Francisco Nudes wrote:

Hey, good catch - that's great news.  Cheaper, more output, a bit smaller case, same weight.

http://www.white-lightning.com/battery.html

Note how they're offering various discounts to people who bought the old units.  Very nice!

Yup.  One of the many reasons I choose to shoot with White Lightnings. I had a bad wiring harness in my original Vagabond and they sent me out a new harness lickity split. My Vagabond II will be on its way soon :-)

David Annarino wrote:
Oh.. did they discontinue those damn Vagabonds?  What a piece of cheap crap.  I went on the shooting thinking it was charged (even the green light indicated it was charged).. and it turned out to be dead.  (The wire easily disconnects from the charger)

They do have car chargers you know...

Sharpshoota photography wrote:
get whatever light you want. Just make sure you know how to use what you have.

This is more about a discussion on this particular system than a debate on which is best...

The downside I see to the new Zeus system is for location work you would still need to bring along a Vagabond since the Zeus requires that it be plugged into an outlet.