Trent Chau wrote:
reliability isn't based on just how long it last, but how quick it's repaired, how good the repair is, the customer service, and the ease of handling those issues. after the fact.  Paul C Buff has proven time and time again why they've earned their accolades.

What?  Is that the new spin from marketing?  So if things are repaired quickly it's considered "reliable" even if it breaks all the time.

*mind boggling*

EL PIC wrote:
Cheap Strobes do that cause they are cheap.

EL

LOL

please stop before I roll off this chair!

lll wrote:
What?  Is that the new spin from marketing?  So if things are repaired quickly it's considered "reliable" even if it breaks all the time.

*mind boggling*

It's called "effective" reliabilty. Haven't you heard?

BlindMike wrote:
It's called "effective" reliabilty. Haven't you heard?

I thought it was called "reflective"  while its away, you get to reflect back on your purchase and they get to reflect back on what they had built

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

in all fairness I must say I like the vegabond 2  I don't connect strobes to it, but its great to run chargers and computers off of at a location, and I have run LED for video.

Trent Chau wrote:
My suggestion is mark it up as experience as you didn't send in the light after the initial failure.

I don't read it as the same actual light had blown-up twice, I think he meant it was the second light which had blown up on him, but if it did blow up and was not sent in I am curious what blows up means and how he fixed it

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

EL PIC wrote:
Cheap Strobes do that cause they are cheap.

EL

Digitoxin wrote:
For the second time in 2 months one of my WL x1600s has blown-up.

I wonder if "cockpit" problems played a part. Just what exactly are you doing to these lights to have such a high failure rate?

Trent Chau wrote:
My suggestion is mark it up as experience as you didn't send in the light after the initial failure.

StephenEastwood wrote:
I don't read it as the same actual light had blown-up twice, I think he meant it was the second light which had blown up on him, but if it did blow up and was not sent in I am curious what blows up means and how he fixed it

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

For the record, I have a couple of WL X-1600s.  THIS light blew up once.... Turned it one, triggered it, and it sounded like metal exploded and careened all around the inside of the housing.  Sent it in and within a week, had it back.  Worked fine.  Great customer service, right?

Now, another failure.  No "metal careening", just a "pop" and dead.

I kinda feel like it is a pinto.... when will it blow-up again?

Digitoxin wrote:
For the second time in 2 months one of my WL x1600s has blown-up.

Dan Hood  mm/moderator wrote:
I wonder if "cockpit" problems played a part. Just what exactly are you doing to these lights to have such a high failure rate?

Oh, that is easy.... In my studio, I put them on a lightstand and turn them on.  Is there something wrong with that?  Am I asking too much when I use them in a warm, dry area?  Would it be better if I did not turn them on?

For the record, these lights don't even travel.... they have never been out of the studio and they have never been kicked, splattered on, dropped, dangled, dinged, dumped, or defraggled.

Digitoxin wrote:
For the second time in 2 months one of my WL x1600s has blown-up.

Dan Hood  mm/moderator wrote:
I wonder if "cockpit" problems played a part. Just what exactly are you doing to these lights to have such a high failure rate?

Digitoxin wrote:
Oh, that is easy.... In my studio, I put them on a lightstand and turn them on.  Is there something wrong with that?  Am I asking too much when I use them in a warm, dry area?  Would it be better if I did not turn them on?

For the record, these lights don't even travel.... they have never been out of the studio and they have never been kicked, splattered on, dropped, dangled, dinged, dumped, or defraggled.

Now, I REALLY feel like an idiot.  After the "pop" I immediately thought the unit dead.  I tried it on a different electric circuit.... still dead.  I concluded the light was dead and simply put a new light on the stand and got on with the shoot.

After Dan's post, and my response, I thought to myself: "hey, I wonder if the WL just blew a circut breaker in the unit"......... So, I plugged the bad-boy in and pressed the RESET button (D'0h!) and it works.

That internal circuit breaker is designed to keep the unit from overloading with long duration use.... I have no idea why it would trip on the FIRST flash.  Anyway, it works for now and I feel like a dope......... 

"Merry X-mass to all and to all a good night."

IBX Pete wrote:
I've got one of the Ultra 1200 series and four of the older style 10,000 WL units and none have ever failed me.
Ever.

The Ultra's were the best lights Paul Buff has ever produced ... these lights never fail, work long and hard, I much prefer them over the X series.

Mal at Hidden Creek wrote:

The Ultra's were the best lights Paul Buff has ever produced ... these lights never fail, work long and hard, I much prefer them over the X series.

Glad to hear it. I couldn't afford the Ultra's when they were new, but I picked this one up on Ebay and it's worked just fine.

EL PIC wrote:
Cheap Strobes do that cause they are cheap.

EL

You know there is always one that thinks money=better quality. I am looking at the quotes in here and the "Majority" of them about Paul C Buff and his products are positive. There is a photographer I know that uses more expensive lights and every time he shoots he's telling me how he had to send this thing back and that thing back. I use Alien Bee's and love the product and the outcome...their customer service is the absolute best! You just got one bad unit - it happens-but not often with WL or AB products.

jtsmith wrote:
It's like every other product. Some fail on you. Just send it in for repair. Thank goodness you did have back ups and it appears as if the same company of lights worked for you in that moment of crisis. It's probable that affordability to get those multiple lights for back ups saved the day.

I have heard more horror stories on Hensels, than I have anything else, but I don't bash them. It's a matter of things do fail on you.

J T

Very true.  Part of the appeal of WL/AB is their affordability/feature set.  And, because they are a little less expensive, you can afford to have a few backups.

lll wrote:

What?  Is that the new spin from marketing?  So if things are repaired quickly it's considered "reliable" even if it breaks all the time.

*mind boggling*

Actually yes it is.  Most high praise companies (Cars, Lights..blah blah blah) show that it's the whole company that's a pleasure to deal with rather than one aspect.  When you only test 1 unit out of a batch of 100 for defects accross the whole line, you're going to miss something.  Being able to quickly offer a solution to your client is one aspect of a business that is very important to their reliability.

It maybe personal opinion but I've lived an easier professional life realizing both that, and also having redundancy (AKA 4 wl1600's when I only use 2 most of the time, using photography as an example).

Also you're a rational thinking adult, if you thought I wrote break all the time then you may just be trying to troll.

StephenEastwood wrote:
Great you get to try out that special customer service we all hear so much about!!!   I think its a huge part of the experience of the alienbees and maybe now its becoming a bigger part of the WL experience as well!  Must have been so wanted by WL customers that they decided to give them some too!!!!!

Its a shame that all companies don't have such great services offered, I am not sure speedotron or broncolor have a service department in all my years of owning them I never had a reason to call, maybe I am missing out


Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

You definitely missing out the service department.

I thought you use Profoto?

BlindMike wrote:
It's called "effective" reliabilty. Haven't you heard?

Now THAT was funny!   

R

StephenEastwood wrote:

I thought it was called "reflective"  while its away, you get to reflect back on your purchase and they get to reflect back on what they had built

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

in all fairness I must say I like the vegabond 2  I don't connect strobes to it, but its great to run chargers and computers off of at a location, and I have run LED for video.

I have the vagabond II (PSI900GF) version now.  If you have the older version (PSI900), you can call them up and ask an exchange to get a newer inverter.  They will exchange it for you for free.

Digitoxin wrote:
Now, I REALLY feel like an idiot.  After the "pop" I immediately thought the unit dead.  I tried it on a different electric circuit.... still dead.  I concluded the light was dead and simply put a new light on the stand and got on with the shoot.

After Dan's post, and my response, I thought to myself: "hey, I wonder if the WL just blew a circut breaker in the unit"......... So, I plugged the bad-boy in and pressed the RESET button (D'0h!) and it works.

That internal circuit breaker is designed to keep the unit from overloading with long duration use.... I have no idea why it would trip on the FIRST flash.  Anyway, it works for now and I feel like a dope......... 

"Merry X-mass to all and to all a good night."

Classic! As the Dude said in The Big Lebowski - "New shit has come to light."

Man, if I had a dollar for every time a major problem turned out to be something simple like that . . .  D'ooooh!

BlindMike wrote:

It's called "effective" reliabilty. Haven't you heard?

Sounds like you change the definition to get the "smoke and mirrors" to work.

EL PIC wrote:
Cheap Strobes do that cause they are cheap.

EL

All lights blow. I have heard stories about high end one's such as Elinchroms as well. Buff stands behind the product, I have had some minor issues with my White Lighting, which was handled promptly-my Calumets were a different story...

Silver Mirage wrote:
It's pretty unusual to hear of someone getting two problem units from Buff, but it could happen. If the breaker tripped once that might be a fluke, but if it trips again you should send the unit for repair -- could be a faulty breaker, or could be some kind of intermittent circuit problem.

In general, seems like ABs and WLs are about as reliable as the more expensive brands, maybe a little better. If we see more complaints online that is probably because they have such a huge market share with young and beginner photographers -- the people most likely to be on these forums.

For professionals, Buff stuff has two big advantages over most other brands: Quick, affordable repairs (plus a liberal warranty policy) and it is cheap enough that almost any photographer can afford backups. It may not the be fanciest or most prestigious, but it can be the best business decision.

I don't see why most professionals just don't have 2 wl800's or 1600's in a spare roll case ready to go.  You don't have to use it, but it's so versatile its awesome.  I know some people are very peculiar about their brands, but really sometimes light is light (mostly when you need light and you don't have it).  White lightnings and Ab's are a good comprimise between passable quality and cost.

Yes I know, people aren't made of money.  I know I'm not, but still my business plan would have me holding two spare WL's down the line, even if I go for Hensels or so on.  Don't need the modifiers, just the silver reflector, umbrellas and my camera ty.

Trent Chau wrote:
I don't see why most professionals just don't have 2 wl800's or 1600's in a spare roll case ready to go.  You don't have to use it, but it's so versatile its awesome.  I know some people are very peculiar about their brands, but really sometimes light is light (mostly when you need light and you don't have it).  White lightnings and Ab's are a good comprimise between passable quality and cost.

Yes I know, people aren't made of money.  I know I'm not, but still my business plan would have me holding two spare WL's down the line, even if I go for Hensels or so on.  Don't need the modifiers, just the silver reflector, umbrellas and my camera ty.

That's part of why I kept one of the bees when I upgraded to WL.  If anything happens to a WL unit I can just swap to it and keep rolling.  I have spares of everything else, I don't know why the lights would be any different.

That's actually one of the nice things about WL lights - you can have a bee or two for a spare - they're light, they're cheap, they take the same accessories, and while I'm glad I have the WL units overall if I have to muddle thorough a shoot or two with a bee in the mix nobody will ever know.