Photographer
Deleted member
Posts: 431
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
Ok, I feel the need to chime in here. While I hate to address the issue (since I am the grateful recipient of not one, but TWO early votes), I have to agree that we should generally wait until later in the contest to vote. We should be able to evaluate at least a majority of the entries for the day before casting a vote. Unless there is a valid reason for such an early vote (and the reason for voting so early is clearly spelled out in the post), maybe those votes should only count as a half vote?
I do not know the answer, but it does seem like we need to come to an agreement of some sort to resolve this issue...
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
The main issue that's come up in discussions about a vote deadline time has been that of peoples' schedules and the varying time zones of the members. As it is, we have an average number of votes that hovers between 15 & 20 most days. Given the VERY low number of votes, it has seemed that limiting them even MORE would not be the best course of action.
Also, it would require more bumps as there would be less posts in the thread.
However, since this's clearly becoming more of an issue & many people are upset about it I will talk with Craig and see about coming up with times.
It may not be Noon but it would be at least 8-10 AM.
Since we're discussing this, we have a policy to DISCOURAGE people from posting entries after 9 PM EST but there's no RULE against it.
If we're going to set a voting deadline, would you all want to see a firm POSTING deadline?
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4144
New York, New York, US
Paul Thomas wrote:
What I don't understand is how there could possibly not be a rule against this?
Seriously, there is no defense for it. The moderator of this thread gets all up in arms if you post a link in the incorrect format, but voting a few minutes into the contest is OK?
Seriously, WTF. Votes before noon just shouldn't be allowed, period. There is no excuse... No logical reason... No argument that can make this practice appear fair in any way whatsoever. Where were you when I was getting smacked down for complaining about this?
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
BTW, regarding the "up in arms" thing, I just spent 30 minutes contacting people who'd failed to date entries or mark them 18+ as well as 2 people who'd used direct image links & one who'd linked to the thumbnail of his image. I also had to make note of a vote that was almost impossible to count. Many of these corrections don't require public comments so you guys never see them but they take time. I spend a couple of hours a day out of my own time just keeping up with the thread, I like to think I maintain a fair degree of equanimity in the face of the amount of time I spend making such corrections which're intended solely to keep the thread running smoothly. 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4144
New York, New York, US
SLE Photography wrote:
The main issue that's come up in discussions about a vote deadline time has been that of peoples' schedules and the varying time zones of the members. As it is, we have an average number of votes that hovers between 15 & 20 most days. Given the VERY low number of votes, it has seemed that limiting them even MORE would not be the best course of action.
Also, it would require more bumps as there would be less posts in the thread.
However, since this's clearly becoming more of an issue & many people are upset about it I will talk with Craig and see about coming up with times.
It may not be Noon but it would be at least 8-10 AM.
Since we're discussing this, we have a policy to DISCOURAGE people from posting entries after 9 PM EST but there's no RULE against it.
If we're going to set a voting deadline, would you all want to see a firm POSTING deadline? You're right that choosing a time is a complicating factor.
To me the issue is about the number of images. My complaint is not about the timing, but the the vote is being cast without looking at all or even 10% of the images.
Rather than create time restrictions, why not require people to wait until 10 entries have been posted before they vote.
That way there are actually some reference images for the day.
Photographer
Paul T2
Posts: 91
Denver, Colorado, US
I'm fine with a posting deadline as well. That makes sense.
And, to me, it would seem pretty simple to work around the time zone issue. Just make the deadlines a specific time EST. We already have one deadline (when the vote stops and the end of one day starts and the next day begins). I would volunteer to help post a graphic saying something like "Voting allowed now" and "Posting images no longer allowed" to make it clear in the thread. I'm sure other people would volunteer to help with that too, if you would like to encourage others to chip in to help with the maintenance of the thread.
I would rather do that than have a "number of images" deadline, which seems a little arbitrary.
And we do appreciate your effots. I love the contest. It just seems to me that the formatting thing is less important than this issue.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Paul T2 wrote:
And we do appreciate your effots. I love the contest. It just seems to me that the formatting thing is less important than this issue. Well the formatting thing comes down to a) keeping the contest in compliance with site rules, which means we're allowed to have it and b) keeping the administrative headaches to a minimum.
Obviously it's important to keep the contest compliant with site rules so we don't get shut down and believe me if the administration of it gets too far out of hand no one will want to maintain it.
I realize the early vote situation is upsetting but it doesn't render the contest unworkable.
Photographer
Paul T2
Posts: 91
Denver, Colorado, US
Sorry, what I mean by formatting is the issue having to do with the line breaks and the links breaking. Obviously we need to keep in compliance with the site rules with the 18+ stuff.
Model
Susie B
Posts: 4260
Santa Fe, New Mexico, US
SLE Photography wrote:
Well the formatting thing comes down to a) keeping the contest in compliance with site rules, which means we're allowed to have it and b) keeping the administrative headaches to a minimum.
Obviously it's important to keep the contest compliant with site rules so we don't get shut down and believe me if the administration of it gets too far out of hand no one will want to maintain it.
I realize the early vote situation is upsetting but it doesn't render the contest unworkable. By the way, SLE, I appreciate everything you do!!!
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10302
Pawtucket, Rhode Island, US
Mike Caffrey wrote:
You're right that choosing a time is a complicating factor.
To me the issue is about the number of images. My complaint is not about the timing, but the the vote is being cast without looking at all or even 10% of the images.
Rather than create time restrictions, why not require people to wait until 10 entries have been posted before they vote.
That way there are actually some reference images for the day. I must admit that I took issue with Mike Caffrey some weeks ago when he spoke to the issue of fast-fire voting. In this forum it is commonplace now.
I was wrong in my theory that intelligence rules.
The POD normally goes 12 hours until 12:00PM daily, or longer, without a vote.
The Theme competition allow voting on only the 2nd page with images wrongly voted disqualified.
I am now, given the less-than-thoughtful 5 minute or early morning EST voting that happens more than occassionally in POD 18+, in favor of some kind of rule that eliminates votes made prior to a certain time(like 12:00PM EST)or # of entries.
I do not think that we need to address the late image entries as you and Craig seem to suggest when an image is entered very close to closing time that the entrant reissue his/her entry in the next day's competition at the entrant's option.
...it seems to work just fine.
Photographer
Fleeting Glimpse Studio
Posts: 722
North, Virginia, US
per the intro to this thread where folks are listed, you can discuss mine here too, if you like. (Sorry to interrupt the flow of voting rules thread) If anybody wants to get my attention though, pm or tag, or something please!
Photographer
Fleeting Glimpse Studio
Posts: 722
North, Virginia, US
SLE Photography wrote:
BTW, regarding the "up in arms" thing, I just spent 30 minutes contacting people who'd failed to date entries or mark them 18+ as well as 2 people who'd used direct image links & one who'd linked to the thumbnail of his image. I also had to make note of a vote that was almost impossible to count.
Many of these corrections don't require public comments so you guys never see them but they take time.
I spend a couple of hours a day out of my own time just keeping up with the thread, I like to think I maintain a fair degree of equanimity in the face of the amount of time I spend making such corrections which're intended solely to keep the thread running smoothly.
I've only been posting for a couple of days (just found this stuff, very cool!!!!). I think you do a fine job, and I can see it takes a ton of work. Thank you so much for doing this.
I'd be inclined to leave things open, even though some folks get frustrated, or else make 8am or 10am be a limit... leaving lots of flexibility. The worst case is that some premature votes occur, and I'm not sure how often that really changes the outcome? I would think it's not often. And if somebody posts in the last 2 hours, oh well, they will simply not win. I have seen just in a couple of days that some posts have been late because folks were more interested in showing their work than trying to win, and I think that's up to them.
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
By the way, SLE, I appreciate everything you do!!! as do we all i hope.
know i do.
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Fleeting Glimpse Studio wrote:
per the intro to this thread where folks are listed, you can discuss mine here too, if you like. (Sorry to interrupt the flow of voting rules thread) If anybody wants to get my attention though, pm or tag, or something please! great thanks - have fun.
i gotta iron out that list thing and figure what James or the sites needs me to do.
seems to be going pretty good.
so pick a picture or three from someone on the list and let us know what you think.
You can start with mine from the other day if you like.
dj
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10302
Pawtucket, Rhode Island, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
By the way, SLE, I appreciate everything you do!!! Count me in on the appreciation factor, James.
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10302
Pawtucket, Rhode Island, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
Jeff- I had no idea what I was in for. When I signed up to be a camp nurse, I was thinking bandaids, bruises, and broken bones. I never thought I'd be in the middle of a lake with five 6 year old boys attacking other canoes as pirates. It's a riot :-) I also realized that I know absolutely nothing about the Jewish American culture, and didn't realize that the meals were going to be Kosher, that I was going to be deprived of bacon, and that I was going to be guarded by the Irsaelian Army. La Chiam, Ms Suzie B !!
...you can have all the bacon you can eat at my camp, AKA the Enchanted Gold Forest, in Rhode Island. And, no Israeli army to keep watch.
LOL - you got yourself into an Orthodox Jewish camp scene it appears-the Reform Jewish folks do not subscribe generally to the ways/dayz of century ago traditions, when pigs were thought to be unclean and slaughtered improperly helping to cause disease. LOL.
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10302
Pawtucket, Rhode Island, US
Wet Ltd wrote:
dgold2
https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic … id=5163437
18+
Help! I've fallen on this black canvas and I'm sexy as heck! That just doesn't look like a very comfortable pose to have to stay in too long. Was torn about the black background not being smooth. Skin was a little washed out for an indoor image (unless she is a ghost in which case WOW). Great eye contact.
Jeff Well Jeff, thank you for the words and time - always well taken and appreciated.
Jayme is certainly "sexy as heck" . Sometimes, for me, that alone suffices.
...maybe your monitor needs a little darkening although Jayme is fair skinned(so a "WOW" may be in order) and I shot the photo without the best of lighting(happy to now have a studio for indoor work).
Background? What's a few wrinkles amoungst beauty afficianados ?
I never noticed "wrinkles" as my eye was trained on the subject and my monitor is wrinkle-free.
Photographer
ArmageddonTThunderbird
Posts: 1633
Norwalk, Ohio, US
SLE Photography wrote:
Thread announcement:
Please see this post:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … ost6454689
in the d.t. regarding setting deadlines for posting & voting in this thread.
I would like to see some additional feedback on both before changing any rules.
Thank you. The current tempest in a teapot over who gets to win the little picture of a badge doesn't concern me nearly as much as the refusal to institute an explicit statement of what I think is implicit in entering:
If rules are to be changed, it would be much more meaningful to state that the act of entering the contest is requesting comments on the entered work.
This is so obvious to me that it screams - if one don't want comments, they don't want a vote, which is a comment on the work entered.
Furthering the Model Mayhem "only comment if it is false acclaim" does not sit well at all with me, and I frankly don't give a rat's behind when someone votes or how entrenched some of the entrants wish to become over it.
Photographer
Fleeting Glimpse Studio
Posts: 722
North, Virginia, US
so pick a picture or three from someone on the list and let us know what you think. You can start with mine from the other day if you like. dj OK, so, I enjoy your style, very soft and sensual work. Your post from yesterday is not my favorite, althought it is nice:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=6129596
And I do like the grainy treatment matched with that image, gives it an antuique feel that is very nice.
Among my favorites are:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=5908683
I think this image (above) is my favorite, the treatment also is excellent and I just love the balance, feel, etc. Extremely sensual, beautiful
Next one is a completely different voyeuristic feel, more on the sexy-hot side for me. Never a bad thing
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4307364
And this last one I just really like the artistry. Different from the others, but still really really good.
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4328354
Really all wonderful images. Diverse feelings from them. I'm happy to have seen them!
Photographer
Nancy Wishard
Posts: 4098
Fallbrook, California, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
By the way, SLE, I appreciate everything you do!!! dgold wrote:
Count me in on the appreciation factor, James. Me too! I know I spend an inordinate amount of time on the computer and this site doing what I want to do, and it is so time-consuming, but to be responsible for the running of a forum and HAVE to be there would be so much more difficult. Thanks so much, James, for running this show and to you, dj, for taking-over the d.t. You are doing a great job~*
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Fleeting Glimpse Studio wrote:
so pick a picture or three from someone on the list and let us know what you think.
You can start with mine from the other day if you like.
dj OK, so, I enjoy your style, very soft and sensual work. Your post from yesterday is not my favorite, althought it is nice:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=6129596
And I do like the grainy treatment matched with that image, gives it an antuique feel that is very nice.
Among my favorites are:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=5908683
I think this image (above) is my favorite, the treatment also is excellent and I just love the balance, feel, etc. Extremely sensual, beautiful
Next one is a completely different voyeuristic feel, more on the sexy-hot side for me. Never a bad thing
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4307364
And this last one I just really like the artistry. Different from the others, but still really really good.
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4328354
Really all wonderful images. Diverse feelings from them. I'm happy to have seen them! thanks for the feedback - i am always interested what people like and why.
the one with marie with the fan is one i've always liked ( and been able to sell) but the style has been called dated.
I hope to update it with another red haired model in the not too distant future. Thanks again.
dj
Photographer
Fleeting Glimpse Studio
Posts: 722
North, Virginia, US
jandj studios wrote:
Fleeting Glimpse Studio wrote:
so pick a picture or three from someone on the list and let us know what you think.
You can start with mine from the other day if you like.
dj OK, so, I enjoy your style, very soft and sensual work. Your post from yesterday is not my favorite, althought it is nice:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=6129596
And I do like the grainy treatment matched with that image, gives it an antuique feel that is very nice.
Among my favorites are:
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=5908683
I think this image (above) is my favorite, the treatment also is excellent and I just love the balance, feel, etc. Extremely sensual, beautiful
Next one is a completely different voyeuristic feel, more on the sexy-hot side for me. Never a bad thing
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4307364
And this last one I just really like the artistry. Different from the others, but still really really good.
https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4328354
Really all wonderful images. Diverse feelings from them. I'm happy to have seen them! thanks for the feedback - i am always interested what people like and why.
the one with marie with the fan is one i've always liked ( and been able to sell) but the style has been called dated.
I hope to update it with another red haired model in the not too distant future. Thanks again.
dj The "dated style" is part of the appeal!!!!!!! Sheesh. Well, with fine art we all have different views, and that's the value of asking
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Just addressing a few points:
#1, I wasn't mentioning the time I put in looking for praise. I knew what I was getting myself in to when I let Craig talk me in to it.
I brought it up just to point out that while I know issues like votes & comments are important to the members, it's a balancing act... If the members aren't happy, we get no players but if the admin end falls apart the contest doesn't work.
So I have to address the admin end.
#2, Tommy I KNOW it's a pet peeve of yours but some people simply CANNOT stand criticism and if we made "Submitting your images=permission to critique them" a requirement, we'd lose players. Without new people coming in, the contest dies.
#3, regarding the disposition of this thread DJ and I have had incompatible schedules lately, I hope to resolve this ASAP. DJ, would you mind PMing me your availability for the next few days so we can reboot this thread?
Model
CeeCee71
Posts: 3965
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
SLE Photography wrote:
The main issue that's come up in discussions about a vote deadline time has been that of peoples' schedules and the varying time zones of the members. As it is, we have an average number of votes that hovers between 15 & 20 most days. Given the VERY low number of votes, it has seemed that limiting them even MORE would not be the best course of action.
Also, it would require more bumps as there would be less posts in the thread.
However, since this's clearly becoming more of an issue & many people are upset about it I will talk with Craig and see about coming up with times.
It may not be Noon but it would be at least 8-10 AM.
Since we're discussing this, we have a policy to DISCOURAGE people from posting entries after 9 PM EST but there's no RULE against it.
If we're going to set a voting deadline, would you all want to see a firm POSTING deadline? I would not participate if this rule came into affect! Its BS, my time is valuable as other peoples time is too!
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Sexy CeeCee wrote:
However, since this's clearly becoming more of an issue & many people are upset about it I will talk with Craig and see about coming up with times.
It may not be Noon but it would be at least 8-10 AM.
I would not participate if this rule came into affect! Its BS, my time is valuable as other peoples time is too! i honestly don't understand the 2+2 of your statement. I was thinking it is precisely cuz your time is valuable - or anyone's- that a schedule so to speak would be advantageous. What am I missing?
Model
Susie B
Posts: 4260
Santa Fe, New Mexico, US
Sexy CeeCee wrote:
I would not participate if this rule came into affect! Its BS, my time is valuable as other peoples time is too! It's not saying that your time isn't valuable. It's just that- why should someone vote if all the entries are not in? I wanted to submit when I woke up this morning at 10am, but there was like 3 or 4 votes already, so I decided not to enter since there were so many votes already. If we had a voting start time, it gives all the images a fair chance.
Photographer
Magicc Imagery
Posts: 2917
Gaithersburg, Maryland, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
By the way, SLE, I appreciate everything you do!!! Ditto
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Ms Susie B wrote:
It's not saying that your time isn't valuable. It's just that- why should someone vote if all the entries are not in? I wanted to submit when I woke up this morning at 10am, but there was like 3 or 4 votes already, so I decided not to enter since there were so many votes already. If we had a voting start time, it gives all the images a fair chance. plus your 10am is my, and other pacific coast people , 7 am . and while i am occasionally up that early is not a sure thing. and if i enter then - i won't be behind for the start.
the idea has always been - since before I joined - since before there was an POD 18+ just a pod - to as fair and open to as many peolpe as possible.
Model
catnoise
Posts: 153
Bouna, Zanzan, Ivory Coast
jandj studios wrote:
...at some point a decision should be made and it should be as fair as possible and then we should move on to what i, personaly, feel are more interesting things like-
why did you pose the model like that? What did you wish to express. What lights did you use. Did it hurt to stay in that pose? Are you as a model aware of how you look from the camera's point of view? ETC. And hopefully many more ideas.
Guess that .03 cents instead of .02 Great 3 cents!
I would really enjoy reading/participating in discussions along those lines.
Model
CeeCee71
Posts: 3965
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
jandj studios wrote:
i honestly don't understand the 2+2 of your statement. I was thinking it is precisely cuz your time is valuable - or anyone's- that a schedule so to speak would be advantageous. What am I missing? I didn't write that one my dear!
Photographer
Paul T2
Posts: 91
Denver, Colorado, US
Sexy CeeCee wrote:
I would not participate if this rule came into affect! Its BS, my time is valuable as other peoples time is too! Please explain why this makes your time any less valuable?
Seriously, I can't conceive of how a voting window of 12 hours or more discriminates against anyone. If you sleep longer than that, then, well, I'm incredibly jealous.
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Sexy CeeCee wrote:
I didn't write that one my dear! hhmm - i thought it was you who said,
'I would not participate if this rule came into affect! Its BS, my time is valuable as other peoples time is too!"
i guess i missed what you were referring to. my bad
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
much talk of voting - hope everyone does. Vote.
bump
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
- Jemme - wrote:
Great 3 cents!
I would really enjoy reading/participating in discussions along those lines. ok since the last - photo is could fing that you entered was this one
https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=6582827 (18+ ) that i already talked about I'm going to ask you that question above
As a model do you think about or are you aware of how you look to the photographer. For instance to you lok at a background and think, "hmm that tree limb is going to look like it is going through my head if we're not careful. "
The models i've shot who do that or something like it are among the best I've shot.
Do other photgraphers find this annoying? I think a really good model can tell sometimes when to slow donwn, when to freeze etc.
Jemme, I notice that most of your photos have you looking at the camera- was this your choice, the photographers or just a choice of what you choose to put on your port?
And if I don't respond to your response tonight I will tomorrow- I must entertain a 3 year old and he doesn't always let me type -
Photographer
jcmfinearts
Posts: 441
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
SLE Photography wrote:
The main issue that's come up in discussions about a vote deadline time has been that of peoples' schedules and the varying time zones of the members. As it is, we have an average number of votes that hovers between 15 & 20 most days. Given the VERY low number of votes, it has seemed that limiting them even MORE would not be the best course of action.
Also, it would require more bumps as there would be less posts in the thread.
However, since this's clearly becoming more of an issue & many people are upset about it I will talk with Craig and see about coming up with times.
It may not be Noon but it would be at least 8-10 AM.
Since we're discussing this, we have a policy to DISCOURAGE people from posting entries after 9 PM EST but there's no RULE against it.
If we're going to set a voting deadline, would you all want to see a firm POSTING deadline? James,
I have been here a few months now and LOVE the competition, I have only noticed a few early votes, does it irritate me... HELL YES but do I think we need to set a time rule for voting? I really don't think so, I think that it may discourage some from even showing up here and looking if they can't place an early vote.
I would "vote" to not have a time frame to place "votes".
I understand some do not agree and that is ok, I just think for overall promotion of the competition it would be best to keep it as is, if we start getting a lot of people who do this then sure we can come back and do that but again for the time being I think we should leave it as is
OK thats my 2 pennies worth and with inflation today do that amount to absolutely Nothing 
John
Photographer
ArmageddonTThunderbird
Posts: 1633
Norwalk, Ohio, US
jandj studios wrote:
much talk of voting - hope everyone does. Vote.
bump Can you please clarify the officially sanctioned voting times?
I'd really hate to upset anyone by voting during a time that they thought it inappropriate for me to vote.
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10302
Pawtucket, Rhode Island, US
Tommy Dee wrote:
Can you please clarify the officially sanctioned voting times?
I'd really hate to upset anyone by voting during a time that they thought it inappropriate for me to vote. LOL...I just opted out of today's POD 18+
I guess it's all silly but ,hey, such is life.
I'm still having fun.
Photographer
gpmcguire
Posts: 1169
Brooklyn, New York, US
dgold wrote:
LOL...I just opted out of today's POD 18+
I guess it's all silly but ,hey, such is life.
I'm still having fun. I know how you feel --but I have received those early votes and I felt as if my images were tainted because of it--
I also complained about here on the D.T. but I only got one response stating the topic had been discussed already-- I like the fever pitch of this new one
my 2 cents --no voting for twelve hours --no new posting after twelve hours-
Photographer
Coarse Art
Posts: 3729
Lexington, Ohio, US
Tommy Dee wrote:
Can you please clarify the officially sanctioned voting times?
I'd really hate to upset anyone by voting during a time that they thought it inappropriate for me to vote. dgold wrote:
LOL...I just opted out of today's POD 18+
I guess it's all silly but ,hey, such is life.
I'm still having fun. Would you mind putting it back up? Looking for something I can vote on in good conscience before I have to go work on my 86yo Dad's house early in the morning.
Photographer
jandj studios
Posts: 3785
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
gpmcguire wrote:
I know how you feel --but I have received those early votes and I felt as if my images were tainted because of it--
I also complained about here on the D.T. but I only got one response stating the topic had been discussed already-- I like the fever pitch of this new one
my 2 cents --no voting for twelve hours --no new posting after twelve hours- hopefully we can get this resolved and just enjoy some great work.
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