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CRT vs LCD?
This is from the Post ask your questions here. https://www.modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=252362 This is an open thread for all to voice answers in the locked thread is listed ok question: I still use a CRT monitor. And I still think they are the best. But I am often wrong, so says my wife. Are there good LCD monitors out there? Not acceptable, I mean good. I have gone through the $5,000. true RGB LCD route and have returned to the CRT screens. I understand the business you are in vs the business I am in, and one is not the same as the other.You are churning out work for publication, where I am churning out work for galleries. I need the best representation of what my work will look like when it spits out of the printer. So far, CRT screens have shown me the best of the best, but DAMN they are getting harder to find. To date the CRT is still king, I still have several new sony artisans, but sadly they have all been sitting in storage, and the one that is in use is not actually in use any longer, but at least out of the box in case I needed to plug it in. That said almost all are no longer produced and soon will be nearly impossible if not impossible to find. The best LCD screen available at the moment is an eizo in both Adobe and Srgb, but that is not by a large margin, and even the tiny margin is most likely not noticiable, and this is changing near immediately with new panels that have a greater bit depth. The Eizo are interpolated up from 8 bit where as the new screens are 10, and 12bit. I will research more on this to find out who has them currently available or who is soon to come to market and hopefully by that time many others with this information (AND NOT HOPE, DREAMS AND WISHES THAT HAVE NO BASIS IN ANYTHING) will come in and add to this discussion. Short of the eizo I currently like lacie, and some of the NEC/Samsung panels available on the market currently. Overall The MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THIS SYSTEM IS A PROPER CALIBRATION OF MONITOR AND PRINTER !! Without that the whole issue is moot. So a good monitor calibration and a good printer calibration is key. I like eye one Photo and also X rite systems but that is also another preference open for debate. Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com Feb 20 08 12:00 am Link Still on a CRT myself for editing. Thanks Stephen, I was looking into buying a LCD but have not found one I like yet. Good discussion. Feb 20 08 12:07 am Link JM Dean wrote: For the money I woudl say the eizo is not worth the price over the lacie or even the high end NEC/Samsung panels today. I have used and do not like apple panels, dell has some that are OK some that are not, overall I find them higher in price than the samsung for no improvement really. But so far thats my experience, this changes so fast its hard to say since I do not look more than once every 6 months or so. Feb 20 08 12:19 am Link I still prefer a CRT. However, a good 30" Apple studio monitor (or two) would rock. Not sure why Apple calibration doesn't work for you when it can work fine for, say, 70% of the industry at the high end... including advertising and gallery work. Your work doesn't seem THAT precise. I think you are just talking about preference. Which is cool... again, I prefer the yellow-warmth of a CRT to the cold blue-green precision of most LCDs. Feb 20 08 12:36 am Link StephenEastwood wrote: If not faster... Feb 20 08 02:21 am Link Kevin Connery wrote: That was a very, very informative response. Thank you so much for your time to post it. A good answer to a good question. Feb 20 08 02:26 am Link Kevin Connery wrote: You rock!!! Great info! you know you can field some of those questions coming in you have a lock unlock button thingy if needed Feb 20 08 02:27 am Link Bil Brown wrote: No all the prepress and retouchers I deal with in NY, LA, Italy, France and China houses have left the apple displays for others, many went Eizo, many Lacie, and various others India still has many apple cinema displays, but while I am not a Mac fanatic I used to use their screens and switched when many showed me shadow limitations and gradation issues on fast falloff in skintones transitions in quarter tones. So for the money spent on one I find many options available that are preferable. Feb 20 08 02:31 am Link This is taken from another forum and I found it extremely helpful in making a monitor decision. I apologize to the person who provided the info because I had cut & pasted it into a Word doc. Here's a list of LCD monitors and their respective OEM panels used: Just a quick note: TN film is junk for color (great for speed), do NOT buy "TN" type LCDs for your color critical use. Model/Panel Index * = identical Samsung panel Dell Dell 1905FP - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4-L02) or AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EN03 V0) ** Note, you are lucky if you have the Samsung panel ** Dell 1907FP - 19" TN Film Dell 2001FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04) Dell 2005FPW - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01) Dell 2007WFP - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01) Dell 2007FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04) Dell 2405FPW - 24" WS Samsung PVA (LTM240M1-L01) Dell 2407WFP - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LM201W01) Dell 3007WFP - 30" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM300W01) Gateway Gateway FPD2185W - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)* HP HP F2105 - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)* NEC NEC LCD20WGX2 - 20" LG.Philips AS-IPS (LM201W01) Sceptre X20G Naga II 16ms 20" P-MVA Sceptre X20G Naga II - 20" WS P-MVA Samsung Samsung 930B - 19" Samsung TN Film Samsung 940B - 19" Samsung TN Film Samsung 940T - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4) Samsung 940MW - 19"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM190M2) Samsung 204B - 20" Samsung TN Film (LTM201UX) Samsung 215TW - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)* Samsung 244T - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2) ViewSonic ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1) ViewSonic VP912B - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V1) Viewsonic VX922 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04) Viewsonic VX924 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V5) ViewSonic VP920 - 19" TN Film ViewSonic VP930 - 19" AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EG01 V0) ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1) ViewSonic VA2012WB - 20" WS Chunghwa Picture Tubes TN Film ViewSonic VX2025WM - 20" WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M201EW01 V0) I'd love to give credit where credit is due if anyone know who had compiled this info. And, yes, TN Film won't do the job. Feb 20 08 02:33 am Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Leo Lam posted that in this thread. That thread also has some useful info about panels and the A/D converters. Feb 20 08 02:38 am Link Kevin Connery wrote: Have I mentioned recently, that you should be installed in the software as the official search engine, because you rock with the thread info! and the search really sucks!!!! Feb 20 08 02:44 am Link One of the limitations of the large LCD displays is the uneven lighting with the CFL tubes as mentioned before. Another one is the limited color gamut these CFL lamps produce. Keep an eye open for the next generation LCD displays that are backlit with an array of RGB led's. (not white LED's, not much better tan CFL backlight) Advantages are a higher contrast ratio as the RGB LED"s are modulated with a low res image to aid the LCD panel in conveying a higher contrast image. The color mixing scheme with the RGB LED's allows for a 50% wider color gamut compared to the best CFL tubes out there. Don't expect these panels to be cheap when they come out but the prototypes I've seen (under NDA) are more than convincing. The real driver for this industry are the high end LCD televisions. In that sector the modulated RGB LED backlights adds about $1200-$1600 to the cost of the set ... this will go down and is already down as we speak Rudi A. Feb 20 08 03:06 am Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Prices on these non-TN models seem reasonable. Feb 20 08 08:46 am Link rp_photo wrote: I can't comment directly on those exact models but... I have a Samsung 910T I use on a CAD machine. I believe it has a similar panel to what's used on the 940T. For photo editing use the answer is NO. It's NOT usable... Feb 20 08 09:03 am Link I use DELL CRT's for my editing. - My station has 3 of them. - They are SPOT on with colors. Feb 20 08 09:20 am Link I find LCD monitors to be more confusing and misrepresented than just about any other photographic equipment such as lenses, bodies, flashes, wireless slaves, etc. I also sense some pickiness as to what makes an LCD "good enough". Buying a new PC was simple by comparison. Feb 20 08 09:48 am Link certainly for performance per dollar CRT has it all over any thin screens... at least so far. Feb 20 08 09:58 am Link rp_photo wrote: Jim Sharp wrote: Every time I read a thread on LCDs the more confused I get. Life was so much simpler with CRTs. I get it TN = bad. Feb 20 08 12:00 pm Link Eizo LCD, perfect coverage no fall of of light. Shows 96% Adobe RGB. You also have the benefit of running them as analogue. Feb 20 08 12:01 pm Link Still using my laCie CRT and have no plans if going LCD unless my older monitor I'm using for my extended desktop dies. LCD are tempting just to save space though. 2 x 21" CRTs sure take up a lot of space Feb 20 08 12:12 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: Interesting. Well, printing is behind the rest of the industry about 10 years... so this makes sense to me. Feb 20 08 12:16 pm Link rp_photo wrote: Yes. If calibrated. New models are out. Feb 20 08 12:30 pm Link byReno wrote: rp_photo wrote: Every time I read a thread on LCDs the more confused I get. Life was so much simpler with CRTs. I get it TN = bad. LCD monitors are the most confusing type of hardware I have yet researched. Feb 20 08 12:34 pm Link byReno wrote: Nothing in the consumer specs will help; there is no standardized way to make those contrast and brightness measurements. Every one sets their own standard, which means, well, nothing. Feb 20 08 12:38 pm Link rp_photo wrote: Cameras are worse. And unfortunately there is little to be said about either one of these without talking in maths and technical terms. The technology involved with any of these products are way over 90%+ of the consumer knowledge in science, unfortunately. Feb 20 08 12:39 pm Link lll wrote: At least DSLR cameras are made for photographers, and not trying to appeal to a broad base as the affordable LCD monitors are. Feb 20 08 12:47 pm Link THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP NO MATTER WHAT MONITOR PRINTER COMBINATION YOU HAVE IS PROPER CALIBRATION!!! If you print through a print house check out what settings they calibrate to, ie what gamma are they set at 2.2? 1.8? ETC? Calibration is just about setting your equipment to a widely used standard. If you can match that standard as well as the other guy then what you see is what they will see. I recommend the EIZO screens above all others. They have technology built into the screens that makes them a step above the rest. For example most video cards are only capable of a certain bit depth, the EIZO has image processors inside of the screen that have for example a 12 bit look up table and 14 bit processing, this creates much smoother gradiation in images especially when using the AdobeRGB colorspace. One of the other great features that the higher end Eizo has the CG models, CE is close, but doesn't necessarily have this feature. It is called Digital Uniformity Equalizer....what this technology does is evenly lights the entire panel from corner to corner and center to corner, a large problem with lcds. http://www.eizo.com http://www.superwarehouse.com/EIZO_LCD_ … 304/c/1876 http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod … lid=625158 http://www.rpimaging.com/store/CID150 here are some links to do some more research. just my .02 Feb 20 08 03:10 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: To add to this list, here's what I got from Nec today. It's just their lower end monitors, but it should be current and accurate. Feb 21 08 04:50 pm Link Unfortunately I find myself doing my post work on my LCD monitor, however, Chris Broughton the biggest color nerd I know does ALL his work on CRT monitors for the reasons mentioned above. He said he has yet to see a system with a true black, and they are too bright etc. He said that upper end Eizo monitors and the like have come closer and closer, but still nothing beats the CRT monitors. So I guess LCD still has a ways to go, and yet cost so much more. - Stephen Oct 28 08 03:15 pm Link Stephen T Photography wrote: can you point out a source of a few good crt's? Oct 28 08 06:32 pm Link My CRT is spot on. It's adjusted almost perfectly to what the print looks like. But for the life of me, I cannot get the edits right if I use my LCD screen. I like it for everything except editing photo's. Oct 28 08 06:38 pm Link Still use a LacIE Blue IV CRT, and one more for spare....just to stay as long as possible on CRT! Herman Oct 28 08 07:14 pm Link StephenEastwood wrote: eBay - lol Oct 28 08 08:52 pm Link I've been using LCD and CRTs for about an equal amount of time. In the end, it doesn't matter. What matters IS the calibration between monitor, printer and most importantly the paper you use. I've had hassels with LCD's trying to display the tonal range that I envisioned in my head. The fallout sucks. CRTs have always been way too dark and had way too much contrast for my flavor. Eventually I had an associate come in and calibrate both of them to my printers. And I also have paper specific profiles depending on what I'm printing (Usually illford smooth pearl, or fine art paper) Paper profiles make an amazing difference once you get your screens working. Oct 28 08 09:11 pm Link the reality is that most people do not need to be as accurate as the high end systems offer and even with those systems, it takes an experienced eye and artist to go by the numbers in critical color adjustments or conversions. the barco monitor used to be the king, but now they do not make them anymore. unless you are doing prepress for some serious high res printing and demand super accurate color., you can get very close for pretty inexpensive. all this being said, it still takes a person to translate all your efforts to make the press output what you want it to, so there is another art. unless how many people are really able to go to the printer for press checks? it's definitely an art getting great cmyk from rgb. i leave that to the people who do it best. for me...delivering to editorial and advertising clients, they have their own people who take care of it all. you can deliver what you think is best, but then you need to know the workflow after you hand it off. i very rarely will deliver cmyk files. i just do not know enough about the nuances and finesse involved to make it great. Oct 28 08 09:23 pm Link Herman van Gestel wrote: I'm still using mine too and have no problem with it. Oct 29 08 01:41 am Link Does anyone know of a particular model number for a LCD that is around $500 or less that would meet our standards for photo work? Jan 23 09 11:36 am Link Samsung 245T Lenovo L220x Dell 2007FP HP LP2275w - may have some glitches, but the panel is good. Jan 23 09 11:42 am Link Thanks Leo I tried to bu the last Lenevo you recommended but they were not selling them anymore. Jan 23 09 11:58 am Link System calibration is definately the one thing that does make the biggest difference. I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to CRT's representing the colors more accurately than an LCD, but unfortunately, I have had to go with an LCD due to the point you brought up that CRT's are so hard to find, and I don't buy things online, just my personal decision. Jan 23 09 12:17 pm Link |
