Ivy Bressler wrote:

I don't think my highschool could have a prom without underclassmen. (We enslave them as waiters (We actually have a prom and banquet) and entertainment))

We had something like 350-400 kid per class...

Madcrow Photographics wrote:

We had something like 350-400 kid per class...

In theory we had 23, but I think only 19 of us graduated.

Sam_  wrote:
LOL..are you serious?  I'm 18 years old.  At 17 I went to Hong Kong by myself and lived and worked for 2 months.  I was mature enough; a lot of young girls are.  And honestly, kids go away for college at 17 and 18 where they are also surrounded by drugs and alcohol, but you don't think they're mature enough to handle a runway show?

Sam I agree with you. As long as its what the young models want to be doing (meaning they're not being pushed by a stage mom), I don't see a problem with it. Those girls are working & earning money, money that they can use later to pay for college or get their own place. They are taking on the responsibility of a job - go them!

Whether or not they are still modeling 10 years from now, they'll be more mature & responsible no matter where they end up working. They're learning about the responsibilites of having a job, KEEPING that job, & how to manage the money they earn. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

Shon D Photography wrote:

Basically.

I have yet to hear a good reason why they shouldn't be doing it...

Try studying child development.
ummm... I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable with my daughters being exposed to the "high life". Not to mention the pressure to squeeze into what had appeared for years to be an ever diminishing box (size-look).
Shouldn't we be showing fashion for folks who will wear it? And shouldn't CHILDREN be able to have thier childhood until it's done... I mean, when it'd done, there's no going back.
I don't know, maybe everyone just thinks that when someone "succeeds" to that extent they can just pay for the years of therapy to get their screwed back on straight again....

I'll stop here.

Goldie117 wrote:

Sam I agree with you. As long as its what the young models want to be doing (meaning they're not being pushed by a stage mom), I don't see a problem with it. Those girls are working & earning money, money that they can use later to pay for college or get their own place. They are taking on the responsibility of a job - go them!

Whether or not they are still modeling 10 years from now, they'll be more mature & responsible in no matter where they end up working. They're learning about the responsibilites of having a job, KEEPING that job, & how to manage the money they earn. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

I don't have a problem with kids that age being models. As long as it's age-appropriate, low-pressure work (mall fashion shows, ads for teen-oriented clothes, etc) it's all good. It's just when you get into the problem of having young teens portray full-grown adults in high-pressure environments (like major fashion shows) that I start having a problem.

LillyBee wrote:

Try studying child development.
ummm... I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable with my daughters being exposed to the "high life". Not to mention the pressure to squeeze into what had appeared for years to be an ever diminishing box (size-look).
Shouldn't we be showing fashion for folks who will wear it? And shouldn't CHILDREN be able to have thier childhood until it's done... I mean, when it'd done, there's no going back.
I don't know, maybe everyone just thinks that when someone "succeeds" to that extent they can just pay for the years of therapy to get their screwed back on straight again....

I'll stop here.

What makes u think them modeling at a young age will automatically screw them up?

Goldie117 wrote:

What makes u think them modeling at a young age will automatically screw them up?

It's not modeling, per-se, but actually modeling in high-pressure "too mature" situations (like major fashion shows) that people object to.

Madcrow Photographics wrote:
I don't have a problem with kids that age being models. As long as it's age-appropriate, low-pressure work (mall fashion shows, ads for teen-oriented clothes, etc) it's all good. It's just when you get into the problem of having young teens portray full-grown adults in high-pressure environments (like major fashion shows) that I start having a problem.

I think as long as its an appropriate amount of pressure, and the kid enjoys it, its ok. So what's appropriate? Parents can keep their kids locked in their room studying until they have a 4.0, but a runway show is to much? Athletics can be highly competative, even dangerous, but a runway show is too much? I don't think so, it depends on the kid.

Now sure, I wouldn't expect a 14 year old to run their own career, but thats what agencies and managers (and parents) are for. Assuming that 14 year old got hired, its because they know how to work a runway, and from experience, (when I was much much thinner) once you know how to rock it, its no pressure at all.

Madcrow Photographics wrote:

It's not modeling, per-se, but actually modeling in high-pressure "too mature" situations (like major fashion shows) that people object to.

I agree with Ivy's post, I don't see whats wrong with it if the kid is enjoying themselves. Who says they aren't having fun in a "high pressure" runway show?

Who are we to dicated what someone else can or can't handle?

LillyBee wrote:
Of course, I'm not a runway model, but I have modelled in runway shows- so I've seen enough of it to know that it is generally not a healthy environment for young women. In fact, if my daughters were to ask me I would tell them they could do it over my dead body.

I grew in a very unhealthy environment and I'm fantastic. I was a mature young woman, because I had to be- and still I'm great now. Nonetheless, there IS no turning back. Once you're done being a kid, you don't get to do it again. I know many people try, but it doesn't work. Innocence lost is innocence lost and there is something so precious and irreplaceable about that.

Sure people do it and are fine, fantastic, great, wonderful.... kudos to you all who have gone down that road.

I happen to think it is a bad idea to try to to become (or turn a kid into) an adult before it happens naturally (whatever age that might be- but I'm fairly certain that 14 is not adult- and certainly there is enough research in child developement to demonstrate that fact).

But on an even grander eye view- wouldn't it be something if we thought about WHAT EXACTLY we are communicating to our children (and the world, really) about the body, beauty, and priorities via the imagry we create?

I say this as an artist, performer, model and mother.... I question this all the time. People constantly project their idealizations onto me. They are talking to their fantasy, not to me. So how do I contribute to their fantasy? How do I influence their fantasy? What is the impact?

When a director tells a 14 year old girl, in the midst of fluctuating hormonal changes, emotions and inundated with a multitude of cultural influences and pressures that she has to drop 5 or 10 pounds to make a show.... when her BMI is already 19.... what does this tell her about who she is? What does she begin to believe is beautiful?
When another 14 year old sees those images in the magazines, these impossible images of beauty which have been manipulated via diet, lights, angles, make up, photoshop et al, how is she influenced? How does she feel when she compares her unedited image in the mirror?

We are responsible for the things we create. They have impact. That doesn't make it all bad or wrong, but it does behoove us to THINK about it, to TALK about it, to CONSIDER what our impact is and then to take action according to our concsience rather than our pocketbook.

Totally agree Sweet cheeks.

PYPI wrote:

There is a difference. A 14 year actor is likely to be hired to portray a young teen, not a adult in evening gowns.

yah, generally child actors play someone a couple years younger than them, almost never someone older

Mz Snow wrote:
I don't see what the big deal is with 14 year old runway models.

I do however have a problem with 5 year olds parading around in bikinis, full makeup and hair for those Little Miss Pageants.

ugh, those make me sick

Through Garys Eyes wrote:
Well, here's a point that I haven't seen anyone make in this thread yet:

For the most part, there is a finite number of jobs for models.  Not too many people under 18 find it necessary to support themselves, but many over 18 do have to work so that they have shelter, food, clothing, etc.

So, if there are 14-15 year olds working these jobs (who most likely don't need the job to survive) - then there are fewer jobs available for those 18 and over who do need a job to survive.

'Just something to consider.  I imagine that some people will agree with me, while others will say it's a stupid point that doesn't matter.

generally speaking when younger teens enter the biz - the money may come later

Garry k wrote:
THere's always Macdonalds ....

Yes, there is MacDonalds...someone has to man the window when the older models come through to get their burgers and fries.  [lol]

Lesley Alexandra wrote:
Reading these posts it makes me wonder how many of the people writing them have ever participated in a Fashion show during Fashion week.  My guess is very few.

I have. Although the models out here in California are pretty clean living, I've seen plenty of stuff.

Mz Snow wrote:
I do however have a problem with 5 year olds parading around in bikinis, full makeup and hair for those Little Miss Pageants.

Oh, that totally freaks me out.

PYPI wrote:

There is a difference. A 14 year actor is likely to be hired to portray a young teen, not a adult in evening gowns.

Lesley Alexandra wrote:
Reading these posts it makes me wonder how many of the people writing them have ever participated in a Fashion show during Fashion week.  My guess is very few.

hmmm , I bet you have ....

LillyBee wrote:
Try studying child development.
ummm... I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable with my daughters being exposed to the "high life". Not to mention the pressure to squeeze into what had appeared for years to be an ever diminishing box (size-look).
Shouldn't we be showing fashion for folks who will wear it? And shouldn't CHILDREN be able to have thier childhood until it's done... I mean, when it'd done, there's no going back.
I don't know, maybe everyone just thinks that when someone "succeeds" to that extent they can just pay for the years of therapy to get their screwed back on straight again....

I'll stop here.

You probably SHOULD stop there.  Right there. 

I was walking runways up in NY when I was 16 years old and while at times we younger ones SAW older girls 'living the high life' (literally), we ourselves didn't and even the bulk of the older models don't.  Being a professional anything as a youth is hard and places a lot of stress on the individual taking it on, but THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT as long as it's the CHILD'S ambition and not their parents' or any other person pushing them into it.  There are some kiddos out there that are highly ambitious people.  While doing typical kid things is enough to satisfy most kids, there are kids out there that want more younger.  They have a talent, know it at a young age, and want to hone their skill and push themselves as far as they can go, be it sports, modeling, acting, science, music, what ever.  When young people take on a stressful load like this, there need to be special considerations in place and people to help ensure that things don't get out of hand or become too overwhelming on the person.  Involved parents, coaches, a counselor, what have you.  As long as the kid or young adult has the proper support system in place, it's OKAY to let them follow their dream. 

If this world prevented all of its talented youth from nurturing their talents until they turned 18, the human race would be missing half the magic we enjoy in this world.  You can be a kid and push a dream, too.  This kind of decision is a very individual thing and is a family decision, not a societal one.

Sabrina Maree wrote:

I guess we then need to decide WHAT it is. I believe any jury would decide this is child pornography (this is the United States). Or maybe more along the lines of stripping, except not even in the right establishment.
What do you think it is? Before you decide there is no law on it, you must decide what it is.
A simple case of public nudity of a minor? Because I think the Girls Gone Wild guy got in BIG trouble for that, and he didn't even know they were underage.

I'm sorry,pornography does simply NOT equal nudity.Nudity is nudity,and pornography is a person doing explicit sexual actions.End.

Ssiimonaa wrote:

I'm sorry,pornography does simply NOT equal nudity.Nudity is nudity,and pornography is a person doing explicit sexual actions.End.

When there are children involved does it really matter? Don't you think a man stripping a little girl to watch her walk around is criminal?

LillyBee wrote:
Of course, I'm not a runway model, but I have modelled in runway shows- so I've seen enough of it to know that it is generally not a healthy environment for young women. In fact, if my daughters were to ask me I would tell them they could do it over my dead body.

I grew in a very unhealthy environment and I'm fantastic. I was a mature young woman, because I had to be- and still I'm great now. Nonetheless, there IS no turning back. Once you're done being a kid, you don't get to do it again. I know many people try, but it doesn't work. Innocence lost is innocence lost and there is something so precious and irreplaceable about that.

Sure people do it and are fine, fantastic, great, wonderful.... kudos to you all who have gone down that road.

I happen to think it is a bad idea to try to to become (or turn a kid into) an adult before it happens naturally (whatever age that might be- but I'm fairly certain that 14 is not adult- and certainly there is enough research in child developement to demonstrate that fact).

But on an even grander eye view- wouldn't it be something if we thought about WHAT EXACTLY we are communicating to our children (and the world, really) about the body, beauty, and priorities via the imagry we create?

I say this as an artist, performer, model and mother.... I question this all the time. People constantly project their idealizations onto me. They are talking to their fantasy, not to me. So how do I contribute to their fantasy? How do I influence their fantasy? What is the impact?

When a director tells a 14 year old girl, in the midst of fluctuating hormonal changes, emotions and inundated with a multitude of cultural influences and pressures that she has to drop 5 or 10 pounds to make a show.... when her BMI is already 19.... what does this tell her about who she is? What does she begin to believe is beautiful?
When another 14 year old sees those images in the magazines, these impossible images of beauty which have been manipulated via diet, lights, angles, make up, photoshop et al, how is she influenced? How does she feel when she compares her unedited image in the mirror?

We are responsible for the things we create. They have impact. That doesn't make it all bad or wrong, but it does behoove us to THINK about it, to TALK about it, to CONSIDER what our impact is and then to take action according to our concsience rather than our pocketbook.

QFT

PYPI wrote:
14 is pushing the envelope. There has been some recent cases where industry veterans stopped this from happening. When they are used, they are used in a limited capacity.

http://blog.patyuen.com/2008/04/18/aust … -jagaciak/

I'm just curious, are these 14 year old models being forced to perform sexual acts in front of a lot of people.

Garry k wrote:

1) while it may be the photogs duty to capture everything that happens on the runway - I would suggest that morally and legally it is also his duty to erase any 14 yr old wardrobe malfunctions afterwards - when it is realized that the model is a minor

2 ) what was that 14 year old ( in your story ) doing in the bar after the show anyways ?

Hanging with the Vips in the Club.  Mother was included.  If I told you what event this was you wouldnt believe it.  Just got a letter in the mail from the director of how great the show was. Yes she should not be in a bar .  But sometimes the Lindsey Lohans slide in early.

LillyBee wrote:
When a director tells a 14 year old girl, in the midst of fluctuating hormonal changes, emotions and inundated with a multitude of cultural influences and pressures that she has to drop 5 or 10 pounds to make a show.... when her BMI is already 19.... what does this tell her about who she is? What does she begin to believe is beautiful?
When another 14 year old sees those images in the magazines, these impossible images of beauty which have been manipulated via diet, lights, angles, make up, photoshop et al, how is she influenced? How does she feel when she compares her unedited image in the mirror?

You take care of yours, and let everyone else decide for themselves what they should do. Gees, you probably wear one of those stupid helmets when you ride a bike, don't you. We're becoming a damned nanny state because of people like you.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate to those outraged by a 14 year old model...

Wouldn't it lessen the outrage of "older" models having to fit into a tiny body type. Isn't is more natural for a 14 year old to be that petite runway figure without having to fight the laws of nature?

I know that's a sweeping statement but it seems more likely that a 14 year old would fit the clothing requirements of the designer than a more developed woman.

It's much easier. It's just much harder on HER when the laws of nature take over and she grows into a adult body and is no longer getting jobs. She feels she got unattractive, might work to stay thinner than she should, etc.

LillyBee wrote:
.... when her BMI is already 19...

Oh so now we're judging the quantity of a models bowel movements?

Sabrina Maree wrote:
It's much easier. It's just much harder on HER when the laws of nature take over and she grows into a adult body and is no longer getting jobs. She feels she got unattractive, might work to stay thinner than she should, etc.

Universities exist for a reason. If she doesn't want to or can't model anymore, girlfriend can get another job.

Also, how does this differ from adult models?

PYPI wrote:
14 is pushing the envelope. There has been some recent cases where industry veterans stopped this from happening. When they are used, they are used in a limited capacity.

http://blog.patyuen.com/2008/04/18/aust … -jagaciak/

The girls in the pics look like little kids playing dressup.  What is the advantage of using 13 and 14 year olds to promote adult clothing?

Sabrina Maree wrote:

It's much easier. It's just much harder on HER when the laws of nature take over and she grows into a adult body and is no longer getting jobs. She feels she got unattractive, might work to stay thinner than she should, etc.

Wow that's a lot of "what ifs" and assumptions. Why didn't Jodie Foster turn out like Danny Bonaduce? I mean they both began as child actors.