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123last
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8,734
Everett, Washington, US


Some time ago there was a thread where someone was interested in doing a shot like this and was heavily dissuaded because of the "dangers" of the concept -- crazy horse, irritation, etc.

This video seems to indicate otherwise: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=517_1236218097

I'd like to hear commentary on this because it sucks to be discouraged from doing something through too much caution.  Someone actually asked me about doing a shoot like that and I mentioned the info on that thread to them.  Watching this video, I feel stupid now.
Mar 05 09 05:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hugh Alison
Posts: 2,112
Aberystwyth, Wales, United Kingdom


Not much danger involved if you and your model understand horses and know the horse.

Plenty of danger if you don't.

I'm hoping to shoot a series of them this summer.
Mar 05 09 05:24 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Industrellect
Posts: 86
Leuven, Flemish Brabant, Belgium


I think you should look for a model who has experience with horses and horse riding. A horse is an easily frightened animal, it's better if you have someone who knows how to approach one.
Also, if you already haven't, get some experience yourself and ask a trainer how to "fraternize" the animal with all your equipment. I know that some horses react really bad to flashlights or the camera, and make sure everything you use can't fall if there is any wind or so. You probably don't want the horse running away with your model.
Mar 05 09 05:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Overlook Photography
Posts: 47
Nashville, Tennessee, US


I agree with the above advice. I am around horses daily (I actually joust) and it is simply a matter of finding a model who is experienced around horses and comfortable with them as well. Remember that horses are very empathic and they will pick up on the tension or fear of the person on their back. The more calm and confident the rider, the more calm and confident the horse. It would also be a good idea to have someone the horse is very famaliar with on the ground just outside of the shot to keep him calm.
Mar 05 09 05:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Industrellect
Posts: 86
Leuven, Flemish Brabant, Belgium


Overlook Photography wrote:
It would also be a good idea to have someone the horse is very famaliar with on the ground just outside of the shot to keep him calm.

Great idea!

Mar 05 09 05:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,458
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Was it the one where the photographer wanted a model to gallop nude bareback on a horse over a hill?

Yeah that sounded painful at least -- but yeah you'd need an experienced rider.
Mar 05 09 06:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
VasilisaK
Posts: 4,500
London, England, United Kingdom


Use a clean saddle.
Mar 05 09 06:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,458
Palm Beach, Florida, US


VasilisaK wrote:
Use a clean saddle.

Bareback means no saddle.

No way would I let anyone ride in my saddle w/ no undies.

No thanx.

Mar 05 09 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
VasilisaK
Posts: 4,500
London, England, United Kingdom


Christine Rose wrote:

Bareback means no saddle.

No way would I let anyone ride in my saddle w/ no undies.

No thanx.

Ah, I didn't watch the vid so didn't get that it was bareback.

Mar 05 09 06:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,458
Palm Beach, Florida, US


VasilisaK wrote:
Ah, I didn't watch the vid so didn't get that it was bareback.

I did not watch the video either :-) I was just asking if it was the same thread where the photographer wanted a nude model to ride a galloping horse over a hill bare-back.

That could be painful.

Mar 05 09 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8,734
Everett, Washington, US


Christine Rose wrote:

I did not watch the video either :-) I was just asking if it was the same thread where the photographer wanted a nude model to ride a galloping horse over a hill bare-back.

That could be painful.

I dont remember.  But there were a lot of cautions about horse hair abrasion, etc.  This girl didnt seem to have any problem mounting the horse.

Mar 05 09 08:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Pat Porter Photography
Posts: 784
Richmond, Virginia, US


ISnt the horse already nude?



(Sorry, I couldnt reisit)
Mar 05 09 08:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Fix
Posts: 273
Englewood, Colorado, US


Christine Rose wrote:

Bareback means no saddle.

No way would I let anyone ride in my saddle w/ no undies.

No thanx.

LOLROTF +++++

Mar 05 09 08:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,458
Palm Beach, Florida, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:

I dont remember.  But there were a lot of cautions about horse hair abrasion, etc.  This girl didnt seem to have any problem mounting the horse.

Maybe she had one of those contraptions like Catherine the Great?

Seriously mounting is not the issue. If the horse has high or bony withers bareback in general can be uncomfortable.

Nude bareback at a gallop -- ouch poor vayjayjay.

Mar 05 09 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,458
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Mark Fix wrote:
LOLROTF +++++

OK there are a few male polo players I would allow nude in my saddle. But We would have to ride double!

Mar 05 09 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Fix
Posts: 273
Englewood, Colorado, US


Christine Rose wrote:
Maybe she had one of those contraptions like Catherine the Great?

Seriously mounting is not the issue. If the horse has high or bony withers bareback in general can be uncomfortable.

Nude bareback at a gallop -- ouch poor vayjayjay.

++++++ still LOLROTF

Ah, excellent post reply.  My compliments.  What are they thinking? Or, not thinking!

Mar 05 09 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
San Francisco Nudes
Posts: 2,910
San Leandro, California, US


Between the fact that she didn't actually ride the horse, and the shots at the end of her falling off the horse a few times I'm not sure this makes me think it's a better idea than I did already.

I've ridden bareback.  It's fun but there's not a whole lot of room for error, and I was wearing suitable clothing. And when some moron in a sports car was driving too fast and bottomed out on a hill nearby the noise startled the horse and it got real exciting real fast.  I stayed on but I easily couldn't have.

Bottom line: It's a doable shoot with the right model, but the right model is pretty much going to do that sort of thing anyway - you're just going to take pictures of it.
Mar 05 09 08:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Huntli Images
Posts: 154
Huntington, New York, US


When I rode, I remember how irritating horse sweat was to my skin.  I quickly learned not to ride in shorts.  Don't want to imagine the itch the rider might get riding nude.
Mar 05 09 10:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JA Sanchez
Posts: 6,830
Miami, Florida, US


Christine Rose wrote:
Nude bareback at a gallop -- ouch poor vayjayjay.

Oh dear, you don't know the half of it. Don't bother to ask any male what doing the same feels like.

Mar 05 09 10:28 am  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
BlackPlanet Styling
Posts: 680
Newport, Wales, United Kingdom


nothing is without risk.
some take the greatest risks for glory.
an old fashion concept heroism for its own sake; but sometimes in art you have to be prepared to take risks and sod the nanny state.
the taxis; velka pardubicka; the biggest steeplechase fence in the world
http://b5.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01353/54/62/1353682645_l.jpg
photo by me!

so modelling nude on a horse...yes; its not without danger but spare a thought for heroes like these guys and their gallant steeds.
Mar 05 09 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lory
Posts: 3,751
SYLMAR, California, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:
Some time ago there was a thread where someone was interested in doing a shot like this and was heavily dissuaded because of the "dangers" of the concept -- crazy horse, irritation, etc.

This video seems to indicate otherwise: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=517_1236218097

I'd like to hear commentary on this because it sucks to be discouraged from doing something through too much caution.  Someone actually asked me about doing a shoot like that and I mentioned the info on that thread to them.  Watching this video, I feel stupid now.

im sorry but this is just a dumb ass video

no body in their right mind that knows anything about horses would ever ride naked

people... think about what they are saying!

its one thing to pose on a stationary horse and quiet another to get bumped up and down a mountain with out your britches on.

stupidity. geez

Mar 05 09 12:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jellokittie
Posts: 10,029
Tampa, Florida, US


I started this thread last year about the do's and dont's of shooting horses.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=276004

We didn't discuss riding naked, but seriously, if all the precautions I suggest are followed, I don't see how riding naked is any more of a risk.

Riding a horse, if you know what you're doing, does NOT equal bouncing around. It's not going to be any more dangerous to your private bits than riding in pants.
Mar 05 09 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SailorLaura
Posts: 1,145
Dundalk, Maryland, US


ew
Mar 05 09 12:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Karina D
Posts: 1,592
Los Angeles, California, US


Christine Rose wrote:

Bareback means no saddle.

No way would I let anyone ride in my saddle w/ no undies.

No thanx.

Ew. No way! I wouldn't either.

Mar 05 09 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Victoria Elle
Posts: 452
New York, New York, US


As a former professional rider, I would discourage anyone without the backing of a major client and lots of cash from taking part in ANY shoot where the model is mounted on the horse without a helmet.  Horses are beautiful, but even the most highly trained of them are reactionary prey animals who weigh thousands of pounds.  I'm sorry, but I wouldn't trust anyone, model or photographer, who was interested in taking part in such a shoot for portfolio development (even with pay involved) to have thought things through enough to go through with this safely.  A commercial client with lawyers making sure the shoot complies with insurance: okay.  But a private party?  Absolutely not.  Here would be some of my concerns.

Who would supply the horse?  Because you can't just use any old horse.  This isn't like a snake you can rent from a pet store for a few hours to drape around some chick's boobs: you need a horse that is used to photography; that is regularly used for such (some dead broke old nag from some old dude's backyard is NOT acceptable).  Guess what?  Most animals with that kind of experience are represented by an agent (yes, animal models have agents), or owned by someone who makes a living renting out their animal, and their services are expensive and their agency/owner will not just lend them out to any random dude with a camera.  If some stranger is willing to rent you their horse for a small fee as they swear it's quiet as a mouse, I would suggest questioning their judgement, because:

Who is responsible if THE HORSE is injured?  Screw the model: you make your own bed if you choose to ride without the proper safety equipment.  But good horses (and sometimes even terrible horses) are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, and one tiny mistake can make them worthless in a second.  Even a horse that is not permanently lamed in an accident may be out of work for months, during which time it will rack up astronomical vet bills.  Are you willing and able to pay these bills?  Or provide for the horse should it need to be retired due to an injury sustained on your shoot?  Is the person you are getting the horse from aware of the possibility of such an occurence and discussing it with you?  If they are not, do you really think you should be trusting them to supply you with a horse?

The only exception I would make is if the photographer and model were both experienced horse people, and the model was riding a horse she owned, but I still think two such people would agree that the animal's safety is not worth it (perhaps stick to ground work photos), and that mounted pictures should be left to the people with animals trained specifically for filming, and those with enough money to have medical staff and animal services on hand just out of shot.
Mar 05 09 01:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8,734
Everett, Washington, US


VikyL wrote:
As a former professional rider, I would discourage anyone without the backing of a major client and lots of cash from taking part in ANY shoot where the model is mounted on the horse without a helmet.  Horses are beautiful, but even the most highly trained of them are reactionary prey animals who weigh thousands of pounds.  I'm sorry, but I wouldn't trust anyone, model or photographer, who was interested in taking part in such a shoot for portfolio development (even with pay involved) to have thought things through enough to go through with this safely.  A commercial client with lawyers making sure the shoot complies with insurance: okay.  But a private party?  Absolutely not.  Here would be some of my concerns.

Who would supply the horse?  Because you can't just use any old horse.  This isn't like a snake you can rent from a pet store for a few hours to drape around some chick's boobs: you need a horse that is used to photography; that is regularly used for such (some dead broke old nag from some old dude's backyard is NOT acceptable).  Guess what?  Most animals with that kind of experience are represented by an agent (yes, animal models have agents), or owned by someone who makes a living renting out their animal, and their services are expensive and their agency/owner will not just lend them out to any random dude with a camera.  If some stranger is willing to rent you their horse for a small fee as they swear it's quiet as a mouse, I would suggest questioning their judgement, because:

Who is responsible if THE HORSE is injured?  Screw the model: you make your own bed if you choose to ride without the proper safety equipment.  But good horses (and sometimes even terrible horses) are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, and one tiny mistake can make them worthless in a second.  Even a horse that is not permanently lamed in an accident may be out of work for months, during which time it will rack up astronomical vet bills.  Are you willing and able to pay these bills?  Or provide for the horse should it need to be retired due to an injury sustained on your shoot?  Is the person you are getting the horse from aware of the possibility of such an occurence and discussing it with you?  If they are not, do you really think you should be trusting them to supply you with a horse?

The only exception I would make is if the photographer and model were both experienced horse people, and the model was riding a horse she owned, but I still think two such people would agree that the animal's safety is not worth it (perhaps stick to ground work photos), and that mounted pictures should be left to the people with animals trained specifically for filming, and those with enough money to have medical staff and animal services on hand just out of shot.

Yeah but having said all that, do you really think the people who shot that video went through all that?

Moreover, there are pix all over this site of models doing improbably dangerous things -- standing on the ledge of a building and the like -- for FREE no less.  Not only that but the shots sucked besides.

So... you know... there's what should be, and there's what is.

Mar 05 09 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StarDoll
Posts: 4,524
Pulaski, Virginia, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:
Some time ago there was a thread where someone was interested in doing a shot like this and was heavily dissuaded because of the "dangers" of the concept -- crazy horse, irritation, etc.

This video seems to indicate otherwise: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=517_1236218097

I'd like to hear commentary on this because it sucks to be discouraged from doing something through too much caution.  Someone actually asked me about doing a shoot like that and I mentioned the info on that thread to them.  Watching this video, I feel stupid now.

I remember that particular thread well...
  As someone who actually knows what I'm talking about (I raise, break, train and ride horses), let me put an end to any delusions anyone may have about shooting with horses.
  Yes, riding bareback is much more dangerous than riding with a saddle.  It is easy to slip off, especially at any speed above a walk.  Equestrians spend long amounts of times developing a proper seat and the muscles necessary to support it. If you don't have this and you try to ride a horse bareback and it so much as breaks into a little trot, you're going to fall off.
   If it's the same thread I read so long ago, the photographer actually wanted to have the model ride the horse nude, bareback at a gallop on a hill.  Unless the model is an accomplished bareback rider, this is practically the most idiotically unsafe situation I can think of:
    Amateur riding horse at a fast pace = dangerous
    Amateur riding bareback = dangerous
    Riding bareback at a gallop = dangerous
    Riding on a steep hill = dangerous
    Riding without a helmet period = dangerous, risk of death or permanent dissability

   Not to metion...if you don't know how to ride a horse properly, you'll look sloppy and idiotic trying it, I imagine even  more so nude.  Why photograph that?
   Also, the horse being used would have to be a "push button" horse - meaning an extrememly calm, well-trained and experienced horse that is beginner-safe and will not "test" or in anyway endanger its rider.  Oh, and it would have to be used to photography. Not a whole lot of horses floating around like that, much less ones that people will let you use.  I happen to own a camera-lights-photography safe horse and beleive me there's no way I'd let some stranger use her, especially if they wanted someone nude on her - like I want to groom any...body secretions...off of my horse's back later?  Ugggh, disgusting.  Not to mention degrading to my horse.
   I beleive that the whold nudity issue is simply that it's rather unhygenic and if you are riding at a fast pace, your boobs would bounce like mad and it would be rather painful.
   Did that video really make you think that this was a good idea?  Didn't you notice that the video only showed those girls mounting the horses - that they never actually rode them (and that the horse still didn't behave)?
   I'm not saying that you should never shoot a nude model on a horse, but if you do so you would need to chose just the right horse and you should really have a model that is an experienced rider. If you don't, then she and the horse should either be still and/or moving at a walk only. A horse handler should be present just in case the horse misbehaves/the situation gets out of hand.

Mar 05 09 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Gigi Wilde
Posts: 893
Cambridge, Massachusetts, US


Holy cow, the title of this thread leaves room for misinterpretation.
Mar 05 09 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7,771
Lubbock, Texas, US


What Lucy said.

In addition, note that the video is a Candid Camera segment. It was scripted, cast, all the people hired, and no doubt the horses carefully selected with a trainer standing just off camera.
Mar 05 09 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jessica Farwell
Posts: 368
Santa Rosa, California, US


I would definately go for it and would love to be in this kind of shoot (though I dont usually do nude work I would make an exception).

This just SCREAMS Lady Godiva to me. Could be really gorgeous and compelling.

Obviously there is risk, but theres also a lot of risk in modeling in general. Id say cover your bases and use a model who is already familiar with riding. I myself have extensive experience with horses (my dad was a good old fashioned cowboy, packing horses in Sonora back in the day) and although there are ALWAYS exceptions, if you choose a mild-tempered horse that is used to being riden by strangers and if all the people involved are relaxed it should be fine.

(OK i stand by this, but not enough for you to send me the medical bills... so use your own best judgement haha)
Mar 05 09 05:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tomi Hawk
Posts: 1,649
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Jessica Farwell wrote:
I would definately go for it and would love to be in this kind of shoot (though I dont usually do nude work I would make an exception).

Cool .. I'll go get Flicka ... you go get nakie .. tongue

Mar 05 09 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StarDoll
Posts: 4,524
Pulaski, Virginia, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:
So... you know... there's what should be, and there's what is.

*smirk* Why don't you try a line like that with the owner of a horse you wanted to use for the shoot?

Mar 05 09 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Victoria Elle
Posts: 452
New York, New York, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:
So... you know... there's what should be, and there's what is.

That doesn't excuse animal cruelty or abuse, which a shoot involving horses undertaken by unprepared or inexperienced people could easily turn into. 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uT-i4wrm9Ec/S … lamour.JPG

This is a shoot from Glamour Magazine (December 08, I believe).  Please look at the horse's feet (the one closest to the camera particularly).  They have clearly not been trimmed in months.  Whoever supplied the horse for this shoot should have been reported to animal control.  This is neglect, and every person on that shoot is guilty of it out of ignorance.   

Also, remember model can decide to put themselves in a dangerous situation.  An animal does not have a choice.

Mar 05 09 06:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8,734
Everett, Washington, US


LucyTheModel wrote:

*smirk* Why don't you try a line like that with the owner of a horse you wanted to use for the shoot?

People do stupid shit all the time, ESPECIALLY in modeling, even more so in this low level modeling.  A model showed me a shot she was so proud of -- she was lying completely submerged in a sub zero creek.  She had a right to be proud for her incredible tolerance for pain.  And all that for a truly shitty shot. 

The neighbor across the street leaves their dog outside ALL day, unattended, unplayed with, rain, snow, and heat.  Doesnt give a crap.  Well, the dog does.  I'm sure there are horse owners that would be more than happy to see a naked women ride their horse, just like these old cowboys were.

Mar 05 09 06:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8,734
Everett, Washington, US


VikyL wrote:

That doesn't excuse animal cruelty or abuse, which a shoot involving horses undertaken by unprepared or inexperienced people could easily turn into. 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uT-i4wrm9Ec/S … lamour.JPG

This is a shoot from Glamour Magazine (December 08, I believe).  Please look at the horse's feet (the one closest to the camera particularly).  They have clearly not been trimmed in months.  Whoever supplied the horse for this shoot should have been reported to animal control.  This is neglect, and every person on that shoot is guilty of it out of ignorance.   

Also, remember model can decide to put themselves in a dangerous situation.  An animal does not have a choice.

Another case in point.  All that trouble for a truly hideous shot.  That horse looks half dead besides, and these people are just having an oblivious hoot.  Absurd.

So.  My point is, there's what should be, and there's what is.  And clearly this is an example of the latter, and obviously it was published somewhere.

So yeah, you can do a Lady Godiva style shoot and very likely get away with it.  And also very likely, for the most part, the shots will be shitty.  Just rule of odds.

Mar 05 09 06:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
shooter 88
Posts: 530
Houston, Texas, US


VasilisaK wrote:

Ah, I didn't watch the vid so didn't get that it was bareback.

Mar 05 09 07:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
shooter 88
Posts: 530
Houston, Texas, US


VasilisaK wrote:

Ah, I didn't watch the vid so didn't get that it was bareback.

ouch... or Yummy all the way

Mar 05 09 07:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jessica Farwell
Posts: 368
Santa Rosa, California, US


Tomi Hawk wrote:

Cool .. I'll go get Flicka ... you go get nakie .. tongue

Lol

Mar 05 09 07:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JA Sanchez
Posts: 6,830
Miami, Florida, US


I suppose if we were to go by the 'letter of the law', then all of us would get photo permits for every single location shoot we did, and of course we would all have the million dollar accident insurance required for those permits (depending on location), and off duty police, ect.
Mar 05 09 07:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Victoria Elle
Posts: 452
New York, New York, US


DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:
Another case in point.  All that trouble for a truly hideous shot.  That horse looks half dead besides, and these people are just having an oblivious hoot.  Absurd.

So.  My point is, there's what should be, and there's what is.  And clearly this is an example of the latter, and obviously it was published somewhere.

So yeah, you can do a Lady Godiva style shoot and very likely get away with it.  And also very likely, for the most part, the shots will be shitty.  Just rule of odds.

And my point is you clearly know way to little about horses to be undertaking a shoot with one: that horse does NOT look half dead.  While his hooves have been horribly neglected, he's at least well fed, has okay muscle tone, and looks alert.

A horse is not a prop, it is a living creature.  The shot is not necessary.  Shoot something else.

P.S.: on your neighbor's dog: and you don't call animal control because...?

SouthFLpix wrote:
I suppose if we were to go by the 'letter of the law', then all of us would get photo permits for every single location shoot we did, and of course we would all have the million dollar accident insurance required for those permits (depending on location), and off duty police, ect. The reality is that a lot of times people just 'wing it'.

Oh, well then that definitely makes animal abuse/neglect okay. /sarcasm

Mar 05 09 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
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