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Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


Sendu wrote:

Only if it got removed after voting began*. If it got removed before then it wouldn't count toward the 15 day rule, which is why I don't show it at all.

[*] assuming lack of another bug

18+ images that get DQ'd don't show up.  They are removed. If they are DQ'd for any reason, they aren't allowed on MM at all.  Hence the removal.

Dec 03 12 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sendu
Posts: 3,499
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom


Gaze at Photography wrote:
18+ images that get DQ'd don't show up.  They are removed.

The link to the full-size image will 404 due to the removal, but the thumbnail I display in the checker can still exist, and even if (when?) that vanishes from the CDN, I still attempt to display the entry with a DQ note on it.

If they are DQ'd for any reason, they aren't allowed on MM at all.

That's obviously nonsense; photos DQd for violating the 15 day rule are certainly "allowed on MM". They're even allowed back in the contest. Just after 15 days.

Dec 03 12 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


Sendu wrote:

The link to the full-size image will 404 due to the removal, but the thumbnail I display in the checker can still exist, and even if (when?) that vanishes from the CDN, I still attempt to display the entry with a DQ note on it.


That's obviously nonsense; photos DQd for violating the 15 day rule are certainly "allowed on MM". They're even allowed back in the contest. Just after 15 days.

Other than the 15-day rule then...  There may be others, but I think you know what I meant.  If it is DQ'd for content, that content is not allowed on MM.  Pretty simple.

It's been over a year since I've seen an 18+ DQ stay in the 15-day checker.

Dec 03 12 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sendu
Posts: 3,499
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom


Gaze at Photography wrote:
Other than the 15-day rule then...  There may be others, but I think you know what I meant.  If it is DQ'd for content, that content is not allowed on MM.  Pretty simple.

No, I've no idea what you're getting at. 10.5* out of the 11 rules of the contest do not preclude the same image being kept on MM and entered into the contest again successfully.

It's been over a year since I've seen an 18+ DQ stay in the 15-day checker.

I've no idea what that's supposed to mean. How would you know what stays in the checker and what doesn't? You mean of your own entries?


[*] even being DQd for rule 1, regarding the content of the image, doesn't always mean the image can't be on MM. For example, a non 18+ image can be DQd from the 18+ contest due to rule 1.

Dec 03 12 02:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug
Posts: 202
San Francisco, California, US


Yeah, and there's another silly rule about composite images that applies to the contest but not elsewhere on the site.

I'm sorry, BTW, that the "bug" was "fixed" and one can no longer see where one's image is during the day's voting. While I continue to be highly sceptical that all votes are cast strictly on merit, such information doesn't likely contribute to the problem.
Dec 03 12 04:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bob Roth
Posts: 445
Rowland Heights, California, US


I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.
Dec 03 12 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug
Posts: 202
San Francisco, California, US


Gynecology? That's a specialty within the medical profession. I would stoutly support a no-speculum rule as well as a ban on stirrups and all other such hardware.

If you are suggesting that any depiction of the lady parts is inconsistent with "art", I respectfully disagree. One can express taste through voting. One man's meat is another man's art, after all.
Dec 03 12 07:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,736
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


Bob Roth wrote:
I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.

And who would decide what is art and what is gynocololology?

You?  Me?

Dec 04 12 02:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


zoomring photo wrote:
Yeah, and there's another silly rule about composite images that applies to the contest but not elsewhere on the site.

I'm sorry, BTW, that the "bug" was "fixed" and one can no longer see where one's image is during the day's voting. While I continue to be highly sceptical that all votes are cast strictly on merit, such information doesn't likely contribute to the problem.

I think there are those that will use any tool to get the win.  BUT, in this world of "Instant Gratification" the 15-day search gave a little feedback as to how your pics were doing, or not doing... Then we got hit with the two-day cue. WTF.  So I have to turn off that part of my brain that wants this new instant grat, and go back to the mindset I used many years ago when I dropped off my film at the drug store, and it took 4 or 5 days to get it back... and no text, email or phone call that they were ready; you had to actually go to the store to find out.

Like standing in line at the grocery store and someone still writes a check.  Half the line sighs a heavy sigh, while the other half remembers how long it used to take to check out and checks were the norm.

I'm enlightened when I come in here and see the arguments.  You can get a general sense of experience and age reading some of the things in here.  From Dinosaurs to Kindergarten comments and all in between.

JoJo has a tough job.

Dec 04 12 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


Bob Roth wrote:
I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.

This has been beat to death.  Let your vote be your voice. This contest has evolved and morphed enough and should let stand without change for a little while.

Dec 04 12 06:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Bob Roth wrote:
I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.
Kent Art Photography wrote:
And who would decide what is art and what is gynocololology?

You?  Me?

JoJo does... when JoJo can see those lost car keys in "there". wink

And since no one has brought it up, anal dentistry (....think about it) is also frowned apon.

Dec 04 12 12:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Gaze at Photography wrote:
JoJo has a tough job.

As long as we all make it through the day with minimal fatalities my job is quite easy wink

Dec 04 12 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug
Posts: 202
San Francisco, California, US


Ahh so THAT's the evanescent standard! I'm going to Photoshop all the car keys out of my nudes and then it'll all be fine.

But what if I have a keyless ignition?????
Dec 04 12 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


{{sound of chanting munks}}


Ah...  The keys....  it's all about the keys...
Dec 04 12 02:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug
Posts: 202
San Francisco, California, US


Chipmunks chanting? I don't think that would have anything to do with anal dentistry, but I suspect Alvin would also be frowned upon. Maybe not on the male side.
Dec 04 12 04:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14,651
Seminole, Florida, US


JoJo wrote:
As long as we all make it through the day with minimal fatalities my job is quite easy wink

Maintaining an acceptable level of collateral damage can be a tough job wink

Dec 04 12 04:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,462
Brooklyn, New York, US


Bob Roth wrote:
I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.

Look at recent winners...
No Gyno
I made comment about this on last page

Dec 04 12 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,736
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


JoJo wrote:

Bob Roth wrote:
I think it is time for one contest for those who are interested in gynocology and another for those of us who are intersted in art.

I'm serious.

JoJo does... when JoJo can see those lost car keys in "there". wink

And since no one has brought it up, anal dentistry (....think about it) is also frowned apon.

Good, because I'm not an expert on the subject, and I suspect Mr Roth would not let anything through.

Dec 05 12 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blaine Dixon
Posts: 1,566
San Francisco, California, US


Just curious as to why partial  labia seen from the back with the llama is DQ when full open spread shots win all the time hardly ever DQ?

I tried this one and it never showed up so I did some photoshop to cover the anal area and it STILL does not show up.

warning 18  (might cause blindness and hair on your palms)
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ … 5n9790.jpg
Dec 05 12 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Teeze 1
Posts: 48
Kilcoy, Queensland, Australia


Ok I just got told by a photographer u can enter everyday, thought it was 15 days?
Dec 06 12 02:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,736
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


Teeze 1 wrote:
Ok I just got told by a photographer u can enter everyday, thought it was 15 days?

You can enter every day, but you can't enter the same photograph every day, you have to wait the fifteen days to do that.  And if you win, you can't enter that pic ever again.  There are other rules and quirks, too.

The rules are here:-

http://www.modelmayhem.com/help/rules/contests/potd18

Dec 06 12 02:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Teeze 1
Posts: 48
Kilcoy, Queensland, Australia


thk u iv read the rules a million times so this goes for 18+ comp to entering a different pic each day? I hate hearing different stories it gets me in the sh#t lol.
Dec 06 12 05:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,736
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


Teeze 1 wrote:
thk u iv read the rules a million times so this goes for 18+ comp to entering a different pic each day? I hate hearing different stories it gets me in the sh#t lol.

Entering a different pic each day is fine.

JoJo is, anyway, a very tolerant moderator - unless you upset her, that is.

Dec 06 12 05:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lifestyle_Images
Posts: 3,982
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Curious how the several recent entries that are cropped to only include the pubic hair and labia of a model relate to this rule under "never allowed on MM":

-    shots that emphasize primarily the genitals or anus
Dec 06 12 05:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Lifestyle_Images wrote:
Curious how the several recent entries that are cropped to only include the pubic hair and labia of a model relate to this rule under "never allowed on MM":

-    shots that emphasize primarily the genitals or anus

Oni, have you sent me a CAM on this yet?

Dec 06 12 10:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lifestyle_Images
Posts: 3,982
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


JoJo wrote:

Oni, have you sent me a CAM on this yet?

No, because I'm looking for a more general explanation of how the rule is currently interpreted, rather than a ruling on these two specific images.

Dec 07 12 07:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Teeze 1
Posts: 48
Kilcoy, Queensland, Australia


Hi your sick of me by now true??? But I have a plan that may work. The MM contest I think should be 1st,2nd and 3rd. I ha have a,lot of friends trying their hardets to win. They get high scores and are dissapointec. We all work our butt of to better our ports but At the end of the day we all want bragging riio
Dec 07 12 10:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1,598
Houston, Texas, US


I like the current idea of winner takes all. It increases the value of the win. Anyway having win place and show won't help your friends win. Second place is the first loser.

Mitt Romney came in second place in the recent election. What kind of bragging rights does that give him? I guess we could say, "president Obama comes in second to last." LOL.
Dec 07 12 10:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Lifestyle_Images wrote:
Curious how the several recent entries that are cropped to only include the pubic hair and labia of a model relate to this rule under "never allowed on MM":

-    shots that emphasize primarily the genitals or anus
JoJo wrote:
Oni, have you sent me a CAM on this yet?
Lifestyle_Images wrote:
No, because I'm looking for a more general explanation of how the rule is currently interpreted, rather than a ruling on these two specific images.

Take these two images... run them through PS... add a red arrows pointing to all the labia you can actually see.
When you're done please send them to me in CAM (and ONLY in CAM).

JoJo says... "Where's the labia"
http://cdn.ws.citrix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wheres-the-Beef1.jpg

Dec 07 12 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Teeze 1 wrote:
Hi your sick of me by now true??? But I have a plan that may work. The MM contest I think should be 1st,2nd and 3rd. I ha have a,lot of friends trying their hardets to win. They get high scores and are dissapointec. We all work our butt of to better our ports but At the end of the day we all want bragging riio

Quoting Connor McLeod: "There can only be one!"

Dec 07 12 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


JoJo wrote:

Lifestyle_Images wrote:
Curious how the several recent entries that are cropped to only include the pubic hair and labia of a model relate to this rule under "never allowed on MM":

-    shots that emphasize primarily the genitals or anus
JoJo wrote:
Oni, have you sent me a CAM on this yet?

Take these two images... run them through PS... add a red arrows pointing to all the labia you can actually see.
When you're done please send them to me in CAM (and ONLY in CAM).

JoJo says... "Where's the labia"
http://cdn.ws.citrix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wheres-the-Beef1.jpg

I don't see any...  let's move on....

I want an answer to this one.  This puzzles me as well:



Blaine Dixon wrote:
Just curious as to why partial  labia seen from the back with the model is DQ when full open spread shots win all the time hardly ever DQ?

I tried this one and it never showed up so I did some photoshop to cover the anal area and it STILL does not show up.

warning 18+ (might cause blindness and hair on your palms)
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ … 5n9790.jpg

Dec 07 12 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lifestyle_Images
Posts: 3,982
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


JoJo wrote:

Lifestyle_Images wrote:
Curious how the several recent entries that are cropped to only include the pubic hair and labia of a llama relate to this rule under "never allowed on MM":

-    shots that emphasize primarily the genitals or anus

Take these two images... run them through PS... add a red arrows pointing to all the labia you can actually see.
When you're done please send them to me in CAM (and ONLY in CAM).

JoJo says... "Where's the labia"
http://cdn.ws.citrix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wheres-the-Beef1.jpg

So MM defines "genitals" as "labia"  OK Got it.

Dec 07 12 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Lifestyle_Images wrote:
So MM defines "genitals" as "labia"  OK Got it.

This is an awfully large jump to an incorrect conclusion considering your inquiry began with you trying to see labia in two images where there was no labia showing.

Dec 08 12 12:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lifestyle_Images
Posts: 3,982
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


JoJo wrote:

This is an awfully large jump to an incorrect conclusion considering your inquiry began with you trying to see labia in two images where there was no labia showing.

I wasn't trying to see anything. I was trying to understand how MM and Jojo define '' genitals ''

Based on your reply that since despite the pubic mound being the entirety of the image, it doesn't violate the 'focus on genitals', rule because no labia are visible, and I made that assumption.

Dec 08 12 08:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


""So MM defines "genitals" as "labia"  OK Got it.""


or

So MM defines labia as genitalia.  Ahhh... Got it.
Dec 08 12 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lifestyle_Images
Posts: 3,982
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Gaze at Photography wrote:
""So MM defines "genitals" as "labia"  OK Got it.""


or

So MM defines labia as genitalia.  Ahhh... Got it.

Shame on me for asking for any rule or ruling on MM to actually be clarified.  JoJo,  I'll bite on this.  I did, however just CAM an image from yesterday's contest that made it through voting that not only has two labia majora fully visible, they are being spread wide by hemostats being pulled by the model.

@Gaze at Photography,

I had a momentary lapse of memory thinking that any MM "rule" would ever be publicly clarified.

Off to serve my penance.

Dec 08 12 10:09 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JoJo
Contest Queen
Posts: 24,986
Clearwater, Florida, US


Lifestyle_Images wrote:
I did, however just CAM an image from yesterday's contest that made it through voting that not only has two labia majora fully visible, they are being spread wide by hemostats being pulled by the model.

I have responded to your CAM.

Dec 08 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
billy badfinger
Posts: 825
Tampa, Florida, US


I've had a few images DQ'd over the years and from what I can gather,

Visible "lips"/labia are what MM considers "too much"...even if the pic is a
full-length,head-to-toe,all the way across the room and down-the-street crop!
If "flaps" are visible AT ALL...the shot most likely will be DQ'd.

Similarly,
if the models actual "butt-hole" is showing...THAT is also "too much" and will
generally be eliminated...

NOTE:...This is all just my opinion and is really just speculation but is based on
my experiences and "conversations" with the MM Overlords.
Dec 13 12 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug
Posts: 202
San Francisco, California, US


Well, whaddayaknow. People are guessing about what the rules mean. As anyone who reads this thread knows, I've repeatedly asked for a verbal articulation of where the fine line is.  We know it's not something bright-line like "no open leg" . There's a finer line somewhere beyond that, but where is it?

The responses have been either silence, cryptic references to car keys, or "you know perfectly well". I don't. Just when I think I know where the line is, I see an image that crosses that line. Where is it?

I guessed wrong recently, as well as two other times out of dozens of entries since August and was barred from entering the contest. Also threatened with other dire consequences should I again offend. An attempt to respond with humor rather than anger and to apologize for the mistake was characterized as "cynicism".

While I'm sure I will be accused of whining about the ejection, I am writing to seriously suggest that things need to be done differently.

I thought that to enter a photo that took a lot of money and effort to create was to contribute to the site. Instead, it's more like engaging in an unwinnable power struggle. It's hardly worth submitting an entry if one is more placing one's neck in a figurative guillotene.

I understand that there must be rules and the rules have to be enforced. I also understand that moderating a contest is a big job - I'd never volunteer for it. These things can be recognized while also treating members with respect and appreciation for their work,  without creating an autocratic regime and with clearly articulated rules.

Let the flaming begin.
Dec 13 12 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Leighton
Posts: 137
Lagos, Algarve, Portugal


zoomring photo wrote:
I understand that there must be rules and the rules have to be enforced. I also understand that moderating a contest is a big job - I'd never volunteer for it. These things can be recognized while also treating members with respect and appreciation for their work,  without creating an autocratic regime and with clearly articulated rules.

You are totally right.  It seems the owners of the site do not want to invest in the resources to moderate the contest properly and consistently - it is too much for one person to do and also not desirable for the reasons you alluded to.

Dec 13 12 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
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