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best strobes to buy for the buck
alright tech nerds heres your chance. Im in the market for new strobes. the ones I have are delicate and blow fuses all the time. I need something efficent, durrable, provides correct quality light and easiest on the wallet if possible.( portability would be great too for location stuff) what ya got?! Jul 12 06 06:00 pm Link For the money? Go to www.AlienBees.com. The bees are considered to be the lights that do 95% of what you need at 60% of the price. While not the "Mercedes" of lights, they are very good lights with tons of value! Jul 12 06 06:03 pm Link randy wolf wrote: Well, here's what I think. If money is an issue, buy a few AB800s from Alien Bees and be happy. If you need something better, I would jump over all the rest to Profoto or Bron. Some people will tell you that Alien Bees are total crap -- others will tell you they are as good as Profoto. They're both wrong. So buy a couple of them, see what you think. If you hate them, they'll still be good enough for background lights and kickers. If you love them, well, you just saved a few thousand dollars. Jul 12 06 06:09 pm Link randy wolf wrote: The best value for the buck would definately be the Norman ML-400 or ML-400R units. Jul 12 06 06:11 pm Link i like lumedyne, but they are limited for general use. best bang for buck? take a look at speedotron. surprisingly inexpensive and high quality. Jul 12 06 06:14 pm Link For portablility these might interest you. I have two of them and am very happy with them. http://www.jtlcorp.com/blue/mobilight.html Jul 12 06 06:16 pm Link Randy, did you already run a search on this topic? There has been twenty thousand threads on these "best strobe" stuff. Others, according to his profile he is in Barcelona, he has no access to AlienBees. If you want really low cost and robust strobes, try the Aikiphoto-Yake, the Europe supplier is http://www.fotosupplies.co.uk/ Or Richter http://www.richterstudio.de/ - basically older Hensel Expert strobes. And also Photo-Waiser http://www.foto-walser.de/ Jul 12 06 06:16 pm Link Westview Photographics wrote: and those problems are? Jul 12 06 06:17 pm Link Westview Photographics wrote: I feel the same way about the AB's, I used them twice and was not impressed eith time, one of the times, the slave failed to trip and the slider for the power setting feels cheap. Jul 12 06 06:17 pm Link Hensel... I like to think of Hensel as the "poor man's BronColor." Affordable, digital, very dependable, strong and take a beating, I love mine. I went from BronColor to Hensel; I couldn't justify the cost of the accessories of high end any more. Example - a set (3) of grids for the Hensel cost $80... 80bucks won't buy one grid for Bron but will buy only one for ProFoto... BUT, you have to buy the holder for the ProFoto: always more $$$ money after the fact. I love my Hensels... wait, I said that already. Alien Bees are good but you have these little slider controls, not very accurate. Affordable though. ::r:: Jul 12 06 06:19 pm Link randy wolf wrote: someone told me that they tested the bees from min to max power with a color meter, and got a 2800K difference. that's probably a lie or exaggeration, but you will not get color consistency from low-end lights. that's why profotos and hensels cost so damn much. Jul 12 06 06:20 pm Link lll wrote: nah, Im too lazy to search it out. I know you guys ( and myself) love this kind of stuff, so Ill let you pros run with it. Jul 12 06 06:22 pm Link hands down... elinchrome... annie leibowitz shoots with them and they're only about a grand for a two head kit Jul 12 06 06:22 pm Link hands down... elinchrome... annie leibowitz shoots with them and they're only about a grand for a two head kit Jul 12 06 06:27 pm Link I've often weighed in on similar discussions on the web and have been accused of bashing ABs - which I don't mean to, so take what I'm about to say with that in mind. I consistently see some amazing images captured with AB lights - Ephotiques photos for example. This is just the thought process I went through when purchasing lights and I started out in the same place you are. I was interested in getting some studio lights. I like both pack systems and monolights, but wanted to start out with monolights for a variety of reasons. First, my background is primarily video, so I'm used to using hot lights (Arris) which are essentially continuous, tungsten monolights. Second, for how I like to light, it is convenient to have monos on location (even if you have a pack system) and third I the control over output available with monos. So then I started looking at systems and was immediately drawn to the Alien Bees due to the fact that they were so much more less expensive than anyone else. I mean it was insane. For the price of a two light kit from another manufacturer, I could get a complete four light kit WITH EVERYTHING from AB! I was sold. Then I started researching them on the net and one common theme kept emerging - and this was from folks how have been using ABs for a long time and love them - and that was that while they loved the lights, they felt that everything else AB sold was junk and that I should get those accessories from third party suppliers such as photflex or bogen. Hmmm... ok. So then I recalculated the cost of the system, this time only buying the lights from AB. All of a sudden the price difference wasn't so great. Oh it was still cheaper, but not so much cheaper that other systems didn't warrant a look. I looked at three other systems: Hensel, Dyna-lite and Ellinchrome. I had used Speedotron in the past and liked their packs for durability, but I wanted monos. I walked away from Dynalites for the same reason - plus they were more than the other two. I had the opportunity to use Hensels at a workshop and was really impressed with them and started researching them. They are considered a VERY high end brand in Europe and their quality is superb. I feel they offer the most amount of quality at the best price. I love Profoto but I feel I'm getting AT LEAST 92% of the quality with Hensel and the Hensels are priced very reasonably. So I went to B&H and found out that they had updated their design and reduced their price - as did Ellinchrome, apparently this was in direct response to the Bees! By the time the whole kit was assembled I did spend more for the Hensels than I would have for even the Bees with third party accesories - but not THAT much more. I greatly prefer the Hensel lights for a variety of reasons, but the single greatest reason, for me, is the modeling lights. Again, my background is with hot-lights so it is important to me to be able to "see" the light while I'm lighting a scene. Yes I meter everything religiously, but I was taught a certain way, and it's what I know. If this isn't an issue for you then don't worry about it. Also, I like a robust unit and the Hensel strobes are much like the Arris I'm used to using. I also like the fact that I can now add a pack and heads to my system within the same brand. Anyway, those are my thoughts, and how I selected lights. But again, look on the web, you will see fantastic images created with Bees. Good luck, Matt Jul 12 06 06:29 pm Link The AlienBees are as low-end as I'd go with strobes. I got a pair as a portable lighting set to travel with. There is a color temp variation depending on the power setting, but I would be surprised if mine is as wide as 2800 deg K. I preferred an older set of Bowens lights I have but they're as big as coffee cans and not very portable though I have lugged them around to locations. I finally settled on a set of Travelites (the 750s) from Calumet/Bowens and I use the ABs as a hairlight now and then. But I'm straddling portability and quality here. You won't go wrong with Profoto, Bron, or Elinchrome, though people have brand preferences. What are you really buying with extra money on lights? Color consistency and output consistency. If you meter the scene for 5600 deg K and f/11, the higher end lights will fire at 5600 deg K at f/11 every time, not f/11.3 or 4800 deg K. (My Travelites are spec'd out to be +/- 300 deg K on each fire across the entire power range). Extra Wattseconds give you some flexibility for light modifiers/diffusers, full-length studio work, lighting groups of people or things, etc. As one of the posters above said, pick monoblocks or powerpacks first. Then decide how many Wattseconds you really need for your particular work. Then buy the very best you can in that range. Otherwise, you'll be chasing exposure and white balance all over the map. Hope you have fun... Jul 12 06 06:38 pm Link If you travel, Alien Bees 1600...For Studio White Lightnings 800........If you have the Money Elinchrom 2x BX400 multi Voltage on Full power at Iso 100 from 5 FT you get F64 !!!!!!!!!......U.S. Vs. Swiss.... Broke Vs Cash Flow ...... Manny D. Jul 12 06 06:44 pm Link I love what Im getting so far guys. thanks so much. but it seams Im geeting alot of positive feeback from hensel and elenchrome, also, norman has been in the back of my head aswell. Im bouncing from site to site seeing what they have to offer. any opinons on kits? have at it boys. Jul 12 06 06:47 pm Link randy wolf wrote: I don't know about that. After about twenty thousand posts on "what's the best XYZ", I think a lot of people are tired. Jul 12 06 06:49 pm Link These studio flash threads are not much different from the Nikon versus Canon or is digital or film better. While many photographers commonly call an electronic flash a strobe this is not correct. The strobe is a very quick, intermittent, flash that was pioneered by Doctor Harold Edgerton. One of the first practical uses of his also high powered flash units was to photograph from the air Normandy Beach (at night) from B-24 bombers to see which areas would serve best for the invasion of Europe. 30 years ago when I first started in Vancouver I purchased an Ascor QC-1000 and a Norman 200B. About 15 years ago I semi-retired my Ascor when I bought a Dynalite M800 with four heads. At the time it was considered ultra tiny and state-of-the-art. These packs allow you to use a maximum of four heads and the minimum power control is 100 Watt Seconds. To get less I plug in another head and point it in a different direction. If I want to get f-16 exactly I must move my softbox back and forth. The unit has no wireless control. This unit has travelled all over North America in countless airplane flights and never suffered damage. I particularly like the recessed heads. When I drop them (a frequent ocurrence) only the quartz bulbs sometimes (!) break as the flash tube is protected. I like the built in cooling fans which are very quiet. After years of using this pack (with the Ascor when I need more power) I am thrown into teaching at a local school where they have a White Lightning and Visitek mono heads. The Visiteks are nice but I find that you dial down the White Lightning to very little power (unlike the Visiteks) and you are able to get a softbox really close without having to use F-64! I like the fact that the Visiteks have a more powerful modelling light as oposed to the White Lightning. But then the White Lightning in question could be a cheap model. I definitely do not like using these monolights on booms. They are ungainly. I also don't like the adaptors for softboxes. I have one metal case in which I am able to put in my Dynalite pack, three heads, the power cord, one longer extension cord for one of the heads, two softbox adapators, two grid spot holders and one Balcar 5 grid spot set. I travel whith this box with no problem. I don't think I could put three Visateks or three White lightnings into the same box. I don't know about the Alien Bees as I have never seen on in the flesh. I shoot medium format Ektachrome and I never bracket my shots. This would suggest that my Dynalites are very consistent in power output. For a while I had my Profoto ring flash adapted so I could plug it into the Dynalite. Then I decided (since the ring flash has no modelling light) that this was silly and I had the ring flash converted to use with my Norman 200B. But I have a very nice Ascor fresnel lens spotlight that I had converted to use with my Dynalite. I had the QC 1000 changed so that I can connect my Dynalite heads to it. They don't like me at local camera stores because I never buy anything new. Alexwh Jul 12 06 06:52 pm Link lll wrote: alas my friend, this process is all part of my research. Jul 12 06 06:54 pm Link randy wolf wrote: Well, first off, the build quality isn't very good. The reflectors are made of flimsy aluminum that dings, dents and bends very easily. The light stand socket is made of some soft plastic that cracks very easily. I had several sockets crack under normal wear and tear. In one instance, the socket cracked while the light and a 48" softbox were up on a boom. The head and box came crashing down while the rebound caused the boom to flip. Jul 12 06 06:56 pm Link I like Dyna-lites! Especially for portable pack based systems... Alex is right, once you get into a certain class of quality lights, the differences are not so great. Is Hensel better than Ellinchrome? Nah, I just liked the Hensels so I bought them. But Hensel IS better than Alien Bees - and so is Ellinchrome and Dyna-lite and Speed-o-tron.... Do you want to go up a level from there? Profoto and Broncolor. Hensel has a few kits for monos but really there aren't THAT many options. If you want monolights get one of the Integra Pro kits with the 500w/s monos. You can get a kit with two or three monos. I bought a three mono kit which I'm now adding to with three other monos and a Porty Premium system with two heads. The also make a 1000 w/s mono that I'm thinking of getting. Now, hensel makes a some with their own proprietary radio trigger built in and you use their trigger on your camera. I opted not to go that route and use pocket wizards instead. Matt Jul 12 06 07:00 pm Link lll wrote: alas my friend, this process is all part of my research. Jul 12 06 07:03 pm Link Westview Photographics wrote: Not starting anything...just asking.... how long ago did you buy your AB's? I think they have slowly been correcting their design issues over the years. They are not a real old company. Jul 12 06 07:06 pm Link While I agree with most of what has been posted particularly about the Bees and the Hensel there is a third option that is barely mentioned and is the one I pursued. Those are the White lightning. They are made by the same company (Paul C. Buff) as the AB but are of fare superior build quality and reliability! This is also reflected in them having a 5 year warranty. If you think of the AB as a chevy theese are the cadillacs. They are similar in price to the hensels but in my mind a little more controllable. I too come from video and am used to using hot lights (though a note while the Arri's do have nice output they are a bitch to repair and not even close to the build quality of Mole Richardson!) and found the experience of using these similar to the arguments posted above regarding the hensels. Frankly I do think the Brons are amazing (as I have used both their strobes and hot lights) but if I am paying for heads in the Elinchrom / Bron Range I'd rather just use HMI's and continue with the "hot light" method. The White Lightning 1600 has over 7 stops of light variance. While I do know why many do not like the slider I have found that it can really let you dial in the exact right exposure when working with a meter with 1/10 stop accuracy. Also if you really need digital the white lightnings have an optional remote system that give you nearly 8 stops of variance in 1/10 stop increments with digital control. That means you have full wireless control of each of your packs independantly and wireless triggerring (with no slaves needed). While this is not cheap it is still a bargain compared to adding Pocket Wizard multimaxs to each head, and even that rig wouldn't give you as much control! Finally they have a portable battery kit that lets you use multiple heads outdoors sans electricity. The other nice thing they offer is that for every light you purchase you get an additive 5% off all accessories including remotes and battery kits. Hence a 4 light kit (of 1600ws units) would run you about $2000. (similar to the hensel) but give you 20% off all accesories stands etc. as well as more flexibility than the Hensels. As a huge bonus all of the products (remotes and batteries) are compatible with AB's as well. While it might sound like I am a sales rep for them I promise you I'm nit... just a very satisfied client. I do however have 2 minor gripes. 1) The fan can be a little "whiny" when it kicks in... not loud enough to be a real nuisance but enough to be slightly annoying. 2) it has no audible ready beep. while I love that I can set it to leave the modelling lamp off until charged for firing I would still like an audio notice to accompany this video one. Finally While I strongly recomend photoflex light modifiers you can purchase the speed rings from white lightning directly at a HUGE savings (plus whatever other discount applied!). If you get a chance to check them out at a photo show you should (thats what sold me on them) otherwise I think their return policy is "no questions asked" 60 day garantee so you certainly have plenty of time to decide if you made the right choice! Sincerely, Matt Jul 12 06 07:12 pm Link There is so much more to strobes than cost, especially when it comes to the physical properties of light itself and the workings of the modification. I have found the importance of the engineering and function first and foremost, which includes something as simple as the flash-tube positioning. As much as I like the quality and appearance of the Elinchrome, they recess their flash-tube which makes absolutely no sense. You want the tube to be out so it can project sideways as well as forward. How much light you uniformly push into the reflector, soft-box, dish, whatever, the better... even distribution is most important. We found the falloff and lack of uniformity of the Elinchrome to be too noticeable, and for the price the Hensel is a better design. ProFoto has the best engineering concept for anchoring modifiers, they are brilliant, but again the cost comes back into the equation. I know that ABs now provide Halogen bulbs which are smaller, but the older large bulb restricts the light distribution because it hovers over the flash tube. I believe you have to order separate or ask for the Halogens or else you get the light bulbs. Hey, my Hensels fly on planes, get thrown into the van, they get knocked around the studio, they make me a bunch of money... and I love the consistency (I have been on Hensel for three years now and they almost look like new - well, they look really good). A long time ago I used to shoot with White Lightnings and have known the design of the ABs to suffer a similar problem of the Lightnings, frame to frame inconsistency. I shoot the hell out of my Hensel lights and I know too many people who have purchased discount brands and find they cannot shoot as much nor as fast as they like, of as I do. Trust me, shoot heavy and fast and eventually the lights overheat and you have a very upsetting problem. My nickel's worth. Robert Jul 12 06 07:31 pm Link While I have been very happy with that AB's that I have, I will also agree with just about everyone else in the fact that if you pay 600 vs 269, you are going to get a better built light. I'm also going to agree that the umbrellas are very cheap. So you would be better off getting umbrellas from somewhere else. Jul 12 06 07:39 pm Link I am looking into getting some AlienBees , becuase they are portable. If it was just studio I would get speedatron. But I don't want to be stuck in a studio all the time! Jul 12 06 07:44 pm Link Soren McCarty wrote: I don't see the ABs surviving much transit. Jul 12 06 07:45 pm Link lll wrote: The new AB catalogue they sent me last week Has an option for a different voltage unit and they sa it is "for our European friend." $10 more per unit that way. Jul 12 06 08:30 pm Link lll wrote: The new AB catalogue they sent me last week Has an option for a different voltage unit and they say it is "for our European friend." $10 more per unit that way. Jul 12 06 08:31 pm Link MAS Voodoo Productions wrote: Dude I love Moles, I just can't afford to own them - I do rent them however! That's why I equate the Hensels to Arris, I think that's a just comparison - not top of the line, but very high quality for what you pay for them. Also the new Hensel monolights ("Integra Pro") has full controllability unlike their previous model (Integra). Oh and they beep. I never thought that I would use that feature and now I rely on it... Jul 12 06 08:49 pm Link Dude I love Moles, I just can't afford to own them - I do rent them however! That's why I equate the Hensels to Arris, I think that's a just comparison - not top of the line, but very high quality for what you pay for them. Also the new Hensel monolights ("Integra Pro") has full controllability unlike their previous model (Integra). Oh and they beep. I never thought that I would use that feature and now I rely on it... And there I thought it was because they were both german! Jul 12 06 08:56 pm Link Soren McCarty wrote: ABs are great for location shooting, since they're so light. A lot of people bitch and moan about the lack of metal case, but the lighter lexan has it's advantages. Like not having to schlep a big chunk 'o steel with you all over the place. Jul 12 06 08:56 pm Link Apfel Photography wrote: My only problem with this argument is that good lights, if properly maintained, will last you forever. It's like the Mole Richardsons that we were talking about above. I've literally thrown them around grip trucks, had them fall from booms on set (bad gaffer, bad) and generally beat the shit out of them. Never a problem. You can routinely see ones being used (or offered for sale) that are 25 years old, and they still work just as well as when they were first built. They my look like crap, but they work fine. Jul 12 06 09:00 pm Link Westview Photographics wrote: Wow, that sucks. What do you shoot with now? Jul 12 06 09:29 pm Link dynalites are great lights in a small package. if you post a budget of what you want to spend and how much power you need, it can help. i only own 2 Hensel Porty's and they are great, but not cheap. if you do not need a battery pack, you can get a good deal on the Profoto Acute Kits. i dislike Speedotron, Alien Bees, Norman. i think the way the modifiers mount on to the head is totally annoying and not durable. same with Broncolor and Elinchrome, but they are much better quality, so i can give them a break. you really need to rent and test out what you like. we all need different things. ...fast duration, fast recycle, compact design, lighter weight, precise power adjustments, large variety of modifiers, etc Jul 12 06 09:38 pm Link I'm gonna say a used Balcar system, here's my breakdown: Good: Price, there's a 1200ws pack (actual ws, not "rated") for $175 on fleabay, just need heads. I wound up with a 5kws system for less than $400. Light Quality, Balcar is always mentioned in Profoto, Broncolor, etc circles. Power, Balcar packs range from 600-5000ws, monolights come in 300 and 1600ws varieties. Features, conitnuous power variability, monolights have output for a head, different power ratio selections, 120/220 power (packs only, not monolights). Accessories, Balcar has a crazy assortment of awesome accessories, plus they use the same mount as AB/WhiteLightning. Bad: Repairs, there are a couple places that work on them but it costs $100 for a new flash tube. Weight, these bad boys are heavy! The monolights require sturdy (also heavy) stands. Acquisitsion, fleabay is the best inexpensive source and it's feast and famine Old, trigger voltages can top 200v, loud fans, clickity relays, many have bumps and bruises from hard use so they may look less professional than shiney new gear. -James Jul 12 06 09:54 pm Link I swear by Elinchrom monoblocks. You can buy the EL series off E-Bay for a good price. Beautiful, clean, non-colorshifting lights that are well made, portable and very durable. Jul 13 06 04:14 am Link |
Actually it is a fair point. I have nothing negative about the Hensels I just love my lightnings... though I know what you mean.... wish mine beeped!
