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12last
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US



I know for me I am much less likely to go look over an entire portfolio when asked - vs just critiquing a posted image..

Were, are their any basic guidelines set up for this specific forum? other than the general forum rules?

Aug 06 05 07:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


No excuses.
Aug 06 05 08:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marcus J. Ranum
Posts: 3,247
MORRISDALE, Pennsylvania, US


Courtesy's another good general rule a lot of folks on MM should follow! (that's not aimed at anyone in particular) I see a lot of critiques that follow the form of:

MM'er: offers some criticism
Other MM'er: "who are you to talk? I looked at your portfolio and it sucks!"

mjr.
Aug 06 05 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Most of my writing classes in college (I majored in Creative Writing) were workshop classes, in which each student brought in poems or stories that all the other students would critique.  The rule there was that the author could not speak.  I didn't completely agree with that as a rule, but I understand it.  It's too easy to make excuses or say things like "Who are you to talk? I looked at your portfolio and it sucks!"

Four years of that, and you leared how to ignore comments that were irrelavent or made by people whose opinions you didn't respect.  Ignoring them is the key.  Not fighting back.
Aug 06 05 08:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US


Agreed - but when someone posts a photo for critique and then states - and I quote " I only want critiques that are helpful and in no way are degrading or demeaning etc etc blah blah.."

Now if I remember - most of the big life lessons I have been taught I could have easily construwed as degrading and demeaning if in normal context....

I think a good swift kick in the butt is important sometime...

I guess if someones stuff sucks - it sucks - but the photogrpaher needs to releaize that it only sucks to one person... and not everyone...

plenty of stuff on this site (like all) does suck... to me... but then again my stuff sucks to many also...
Aug 06 05 11:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US


As for other general rules..or guidelines..

Maybe posting larger photos for critique will get better results..

Man I would love to be a moderator for the critiques section....

This place could be awsome with some general rules and just a bit of policing.. and some really good members making sure to hit the site and do a few critiques a night..



Aug 06 05 11:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34,372
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brent Burzycki: 
As for other general rules..or guidelines..

Maybe posting larger photos for critique will get better results..

Man I would love to be a moderator for the critiques section....
This place could be awsome with some general rules and just a bit of policing.. and some really good members making sure to hit the site and do a few critiques a night..

To all,
What exactly is wrong with the critique section?   

The main polite issue I see are people who want critiques but never critique anyone else.   

Do you want this critique section to be the same as a model only critique section elsewhere?   Where in the main critique section,  I feel you can still get great critiques.

If you post for a critique,  do not cry because you do not like the answer that you get.   The rules of MM apply here as they do elsewhere.   

"Please read the rules before posting"   There is a legend that Reese said this and I believe in this legend.

(I may not be around for a few days so do not expect me to rush back to answer any of you.)

Aug 06 05 11:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


I think it's just as reasonable to ask for a critique of one's portfolio as a whole as it is to ask for a critique of an individual photograph.  When talking about a single photograph, we touch on specific strengths and weaknesses within that photo.  When talking about a portfolio, we touch on specific photos, strong or weak.

But it should not be a general looking-for-praise kind of thing.
Aug 06 05 11:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by MHana: 
"Please read the rules before posting"   There is a legend that Reese said this and I believe in this legend.

May Reese's wisdom abound and flourish.

Aug 06 05 11:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34,372
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
Posted by MHana: 
"Please read the rules before posting"   There is a legend that Reese said this and I believe in this legend.

May Reese's wisdom abound and flourish.

Yes,  I am off on a quest for such wisdom or at least the thing she called "a life".  Not sure what that is but if I find it next to the Holy Grail,  I will bring that back too.

Aug 06 05 11:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GWC
Posts: 1,407
Baltimore, Maryland, US


If you want critiqez this isn't the place. Go to someplace like Photosig - but make sure you've got your iron underpants on - some of the folks there are really ruthless.

Last time I posted a picture there like 2000 people said it sucked. Which was so uncool because I am really a great artist they just don't understand my 'street style' composition and stuff.

GWC!
Aug 07 05 12:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
I didn't complete agree with that as a rule, but I understand it.

Out of adverbs?

Aug 07 05 12:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by XtremeArtists: 
Posted by Brian Diaz: 
I didn't complete agree with that as a rule, but I understand it.

Out of adverbs?

Oh, adverbs got slammed in every class.  But making up your own words or ignoring grammar rule was fine.

Aug 07 05 12:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


I excel in those...
Aug 07 05 12:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


http://modelmayhem.com/pics/20050427/1/426feaa25a561_m.jpg

This is still one of my favorite shots on MM.
Aug 07 05 12:16 am  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
Wacker
Posts: 89
Aliso Viejo, California, US


xtreme who shot it?
Aug 07 05 12:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by jwacker: 
xtreme who shot it?

That's one of Brent's.

I think when asking for a critique, one should be specific about what one wants to know, as well as where one wants to go.  The irst response to a request is often asking about goals, particularly for models' portfolios.

Aug 07 05 01:38 am  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34,372
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 


I think when asking for a critique, one should be specific about what one wants to know, as well as where one wants to go.  The irst response to a request is often asking about goals, particularly for models' portfolios.

I agree Brian.   Help us,  help you.  Help others and others will help you.

Put simple titles on your pictures so that people can tell you which items are good or not.

And try,  try, try to post pictures here and not just how is my avatar then you change it in a day and disrespect those that just gave a critique.  If you want a critique of your avatar then keep it for a while or post the picture here.

Go to Brian's Thread in site related issue for help on how to post a picture or a link.

how to post a photo or a link

post a photo by using [Img]  ...[/Img]  without the capitols

link to the image as such

a photo example

or host an image off site with a free service such as photobucket.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/hanasora/DSC_0496.jpg

Help us,  help you.   Have some respect for others time and then maybe the honest but harsh critiques may not seem so harsh.

Aug 07 05 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US



Hey thanks...... still to this day that is one of my favorite shots.... and that with at least 20,000 images shot

Man thank god for luck.....it totally helps sometimes..




Posted by XtremeArtists: 
http://modelmayhem.com/pics/20050427/1/426feaa25a561_m.jpg

This is still one of my favorite shots on MM.

Aug 07 05 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US



I agree with this - but to me photo size is an issue - if someone posts a HUGE sample that blows the board apart it just makes an extreamly messy forum.... the size you posted is a good size....

Big enough to properly critique and not so huge it makes the board look like crud..




Posted by MHana: 
Posted by Brian Diaz: 


I think when asking for a critique, one should be specific about what one wants to know, as well as where one wants to go.  The irst response to a request is often asking about goals, particularly for models' portfolios.

I agree Brian.   Help us,  help you.  Help others and others will help you.

Put simple titles on your pictures so that people can tell you which items are good or not.

And try,  try, try to post pictures here and not just how is my avatar then you change it in a day and disrespect those that just gave a critique.  If you want a critique of your avatar then keep it for a while or post the picture here.

Go to Brian's Thread in site related issue for help on how to post a picture or a link.

how to post a photo or a link

post a photo by using [Img]  ...[/Img]  without the capitols

link to the image as such

a photo example

or host an image off site with a free service such as photobucket.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/hanasora/DSC_0496.jpg

Help us,  help you.   Have some respect for others time and then maybe the honest but harsh critiques may not seem so harsh.

Aug 07 05 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tuesday Rene
Posts: 189
FORT CAMPBELL, Kentucky, US


Posted by Brent Burzycki: 

Big enough to properly critique and not so huge it makes the board look like crud..

How big is too big I wonder?
Just a question.

Aug 07 05 01:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GWC
Posts: 1,407
Baltimore, Maryland, US


How big is too big I wonder?

It's not the size it's how you use it that matters!

GWC!

Aug 07 05 01:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US


As an example - any image that pushes the edge of the board out..

http://blackdiamondmodels.com/samples/share05.jpg

This one I think would be too wide

Also you need to think about load time for dial up users..

Not sure how the board software is configured to crop the inserted image code...

Some boards to others do not.




Posted by Tuesday Rene: 

How big is too big I wonder?
Just a question.

Aug 07 05 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US


See how that distorts the board....aparentaly the board software does not edit img tags at all..

Some boards actually block or crop this..

But this is also what Moderators are for - to shrink images for those that do not know how.... to keep the board clean and neat



Aug 07 05 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by Brent Burzycki: 
I agree with this - but to me photo size is an issue - if someone posts a HUGE sample that blows the board apart it just makes an extreamly messy forum.... the size you posted is a good size....

As soon as this page loaded, I wanted to suggest a rule limiting the width of images.  (It also annoys me when people post long urls.)

Large photos hosted here are reduced to 720 px wide.  That's wider than the page (with avatar and left margin) but it's not too ridiculously huge.

http://modelmayhem.com/pics/20050724/3/42e43af29c25f.jpg

Aug 07 05 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34,372
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
Posted by Brent Burzycki: 
I agree with this - but to me photo size is an issue - if someone posts a HUGE sample that blows the board apart it just makes an extreamly messy forum.... the size you posted is a good size....

As soon as this page loaded, I wanted to suggest a rule limiting the width of images.  (It also annoys me when people post long urls.)

Large photos hosted here are reduced to 720 px wide.  That's wider than the page (with avatar and left margin) but it's not too ridiculously huge.

http://modelmayhem.com/pics/20050724/3/42e43af29c25f.jpg

Looks great but becareful of the word rule as opposed to suggested use,  politeness, or etiquette of posting.

Brent, 
moderators cannot shrink images.  Some day but not now nor in the near future.  But you are welcome to add thoughts here as suggestions and/or to the new master list of items to add to MM.

Aug 07 05 05:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by MHana:
Looks great but becareful of the word rule as opposed to suggested use, politeness, or etiquette of posting.

That's cool.  As long as it's an enforcable suggested use ;-)

Aug 07 05 05:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34,372
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
Posted by MHana:
Looks great but becareful of the word rule as opposed to suggested use, politeness, or etiquette of posting.

That's cool.  As long as it's an enforcable suggested use ;-)

What torture would you suggest for making a mistake?



And this is the A NEWER, new ULTIMATE LIST: What NEEDS to be +ADDED+ to MM,  a legacy of our master Jack.  He left some good behind.  Leave your site suggestions here at this link.   It is fine to leave critique suggestions here. 

http://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=5816\""> A NEWER, new ULTIMATE LIST: What NEEDS to be +ADDED+ to MM

Aug 07 05 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Freelancer
Posts: 386
Kingwood, West Virginia, US


I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also. It also takes 2 seconds to check a persons profile to see if they have any formal training before you go talking down to them.
Aug 07 05 05:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by Freelancer: 
I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also.

They key--and I say this out of years of experience having my photos, drawings, stories, and poems ripped to shreds by those I respect and by those I detest--is to ignore what you don't want to hear.  Don't let it upset you.  Take what points you agree with and use them.  Forget about the rest.

And for the record, the A95 is considered a P&S, in that it is not an SLR or a rangefinder with interchangable lenses.  P&S isn't an insult.  POS is, but the A95 is not a POS.

Aug 07 05 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


Posted by Freelancer: 
I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also.

Your camera is a p&s, and all the advice you were given was correct.

Aug 07 05 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Freelancer
Posts: 386
Kingwood, West Virginia, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
Posted by Freelancer: 
I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also.

They key--and I say this out of years of experience having my photos, drawings, stories, and poems ripped to shreds by those I respect and by those I detest--is to ignore what you don't want to hear.  Don't let it upset you.  Take what points you agree with and use them.  Forget about the rest.

And for the record, the A95 is considered a P&S, in that it is not an SLR or a rangefinder with interchangable lenses.  P&S isn't an insult.  POS is, but the A95 is not a POS.

POS means it can only be used as a point & shoot?

Aug 07 05 06:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,626
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Posted by Freelancer: 
POS means it can only be used as a point & shoot?

POS=Piece of shit

Aug 07 05 06:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Freelancer
Posts: 386
Kingwood, West Virginia, US


Posted by Brian Diaz: 
Posted by Freelancer: 
POS means it can only be used as a point & shoot?

POS=Piece of shit

Ahh. Ok.

Aug 07 05 06:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlackSkyPhoto
Posts: 1,130
Danville, California, US



Do you honestly think that the same person that might put someone here down is going to take the time to lookup anything... they are just here to get attention with put downs... not to research and then put down...

Its really simple - people have to grow some skin and stop living in the patsy ass world we live in.... if you post a photo here you have to be willing to hear bad and good - I much rather hear a blunt answer with proper backup as to why then a candy butt answer with flowers and polka dots....

Sorry but if critiques here are going to be any good their needs very little moderation of posts  - but like the site this will bring out the good and bad members..then we can all self police with the help of a good group of moderators.

I stopped going to the other site i used to post on for critiques just becase one moderator had a problem with anything she did not like.





Posted by Freelancer: 
I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also. It also takes 2 seconds to check a persons profile to see if they have any formal training before you go talking down to them.

Aug 07 05 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
çİş
Posts: 5,194
New York, New York, US


Posted by Brent Burzycki: 

if you post a photo here you have to be willing to hear bad and good - I much rather hear a blunt answer with proper backup as to why then a candy butt answer with flowers and polka dots....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/hanasora/flowerbroomestaa.jpg

Aug 07 05 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


Also, just becuase you have an excuse for why a photo is subpar does not make it OK.

The reason people are giving advice is to help you improve, even if you don't like having to improve.
Aug 07 05 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Freelancer
Posts: 386
Kingwood, West Virginia, US


Posted by Brent Burzycki: 

Do you honestly think that the same person that might put someone here down is going to take the time to lookup anything... they are just here to get attention with put downs... not to research and then put down...

Its really simple - people have to grow some skin and stop living in the patsy ass world we live in.... if you post a photo here you have to be willing to hear bad and good - I much rather hear a blunt answer with proper backup as to why then a candy butt answer with flowers and polka dots....

Sorry but if critiques here are going to be any good their needs very little moderation of posts  - but like the site this will bring out the good and bad members..then we can all self police with the help of a good group of moderators.

I stopped going to the other site i used to post on for critiques just becase one moderator had a problem with anything she did not like.





Posted by Freelancer: 
I think the whole problem is that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism & insults. Constructive criticism is a polite explanation of any problems. Followed by advice to fix the problem. Sometimes some of us (Myself included) get a little upset  when we are critiqued by an amateur or when our equipment is belittled by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. We (Again, myself included) shouldn't do this. And I apologize to those who fit into this category. But people really should make sure they know what they are talking about BEFORE they post. For example: My camera was referred to several times as a p&s. It takes 2 seconds to look it up online & find out that it can be used as a p&s. But it has a full manual mode also. It also takes 2 seconds to check a persons profile to see if they have any formal training before you go talking down to them.

No I don't think those people will take the time to look anything up before posting an insult. I'm just saying that is the problem. I agree with you 100%

Aug 07 05 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9,122


Posted by marksora: 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/hanasora/flowerbroomestaa.jpg

A bit washed out.
There could be more detail in the pile of rubish next to the plastic bag.
Maybe it could be shot straight on so that the verticals and horizontals in the photo are parallel to the borders of the photo? Either that or a bit more deliberate angle.
Maybe a little less of the cardboard on the lower right?
How about shooting this at night with a tripod and long exposure for a bit more ambiance?
No hot chick?

Finally, if this were a real critique, it would help me to know the purpose of this image. Is it documentary, or art, or street photography? Is it part of a series looking at alleys? A series on graphitti? A brief description of the work to put it in context can be helpful.

Aug 07 05 06:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Freelancer
Posts: 386
Kingwood, West Virginia, US


Posted by XtremeArtists: 
Also, just becuase you have an excuse for why a photo is subpar does not make it OK.

The reason people are giving advice is to help you improve, even if you don't like having to improve.

Point taken

Aug 07 05 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
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