Laura UnBound wrote:

One would hope not.

Really? Shall we get into portfolio reviews? It is part of what I do...

John Horwitz wrote:
Joel - you are amazing -  thanks for the smile, life would be so simple if all believed in fairy tales LOL

Most of you do

Joel Adams wrote:

Most of you do

I have to believe that you are "The greatest story ever told" - now it's time for a Scotch - and you aren't invited ( sticks tongue out ) haha

Joel Adams wrote:

Uhm... Ever heard of overstock? Stock held for selling back issues? Warehouse remainders?? People aren't complaining about getting issues that were published after their subscriptions, they got those. If you want to order a back issue.. sure go ahead.. they are  still available and at a much lower price than you will find on ebay....

I can buy an issue from 2010. Two years ago. Why didn't these people get their 2010 issues?

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17036907
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17026506

Joel Adams wrote:

Really? Shall we get into portfolio reviews? It is part of what I do...

that would be delightful, unfortunately you're in the wrong venue for it.

Laura UnBound wrote:
I can buy an issue from 2010. Two years ago. Why didn't these people get their 2010 issues?

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17036907
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17026506

Anyone who's subscriptions would have included the last issues of NUDE got them. If the subscriptions came after those issues, then they were waiting for what would have come next.

John Horwitz wrote:

now it's time for a Scotch

I have no doubt

Nyx Valentine Photo wrote:
People have a legitimate concern and complaint, and being dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't inspire anyone to defend the magazine, especially if this is how its representatives treat paying customers.

However delayed, those concerns were addressed both in the following post:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17037178

...& on its website, as well as the recourse that they can pursue if it doesn't meet their satisfaction.

The people complaining simply don't care or have an axe to grind. The people defending the publication, feel professional loyalty to the magazine & defend it from what they view as a character assaination.

Why the MM mods haven't locked this trainwreck of a thread down (especially since the OP's original question was answered long ago & the course its taken since) is beyond me.

John Horwitz wrote:

UNSOLICITED CRITIQUE -

Technically no john... She said...

Laura UnBound wrote:
that would be delightful, unfortunately you're in the wrong venue for it.

So it is just the wrong venue... And ultimately I gave no review

Farenell Photography wrote:
Why the MM mods haven't locked this trainwreck of a thread down (especially since the OP's original question was answered long ago & the course its taken since) is beyond me.

I hear that!

Joel Adams wrote:

Anyone who's subscriptions would have included the last issues of NUDE got them. If the subscriptions came after those issues, then they were waiting for what would have come next.

If those people got their issues why are they saying they didn't? And when one of them contacted the site about not receiving their issues why were they not given an answer?

Whats the rule? One is one, a couple is two, a few is more....A few years ago would be 2009-2010, seeing as how we're a quarter of the way through 2012

Nyx Valentine Photo wrote:
Personally, if I were Carrie Leigh, I would ask that both Joel and UL stop posting.  This sort of conversation doesn't make a bad situation any better, and while I think people posting here were originally fairly ambivalent about this, all that these posts serve to do is make NUDE look bad.  People have a legitimate concern and complaint, and being dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't inspire anyone to defend the magazine, especially if this is how its representatives treat paying customers.

1) as last week, I no longer work for NUDE other than Updating the website until it is all done.

2) Peoples legitimate concerns were answered days ago.

3) Most of the people doing most of the posting here... do not have subscriptions when I comment someone like John Horwitz.. I am not commenting a paying customer.. Just someone with an axe to grind who found the opportunity in this thread.

John Horwitz wrote:
Joel, it gets tiresome playing with you, and it's now dinnertime - so you will have to play with yourself

I thought it was Scotch time?

Joel Adams wrote:

Anyone who's subscriptions would have included the last issues of NUDE got them. If the subscriptions came after those issues, then they were waiting for what would have come next.

Joel,  I don't know what information you are privy to but my subscription was placed on June 9th, 2008 and not in 2010 after the last issue was produced. 
I have resent my thread of emails from 2008, 2009 & 2010 about this matter and am awaiting a response from [email protected].

I am sad to hear that the magazine is no longer being published but am happy to hear, thanks to the information posted in this thread than any outstanding issues will be addressed.  The single (back-ordered) copy that sits on my bookshelf is kind of lonely.

Laura UnBound wrote:
If those people got their issues why are they saying they didn't? And when one of them contacted the site about not receiving their issues why were they not given an answer?

Whats the rule? One is one, a couple is two, a few is more....A few years ago would be 2009-2010, seeing as how we're a quarter of the way through 2012

-Most in this thread never had subscriptions.

-Noone is denying that subscriptions after the last issue should be compensated, Carrie Leigh has said as much and more.

-OMG.. Did an email go unanswered? does that happen? I mean.. email is a perfect system where messages never get lost or may end up in junk files right.. Hmmmm so you must be right.. there absolutely must be something there... I mean.. you yourself actually know this person who said they sent an email and you know for a fact that it was sent right?? I think maybe you may be changing my mind on this whole thing here... Maybe I am on the wrong side, because you obviously have all the facts here.... Maybe you want to share those receipts with me and I will go back to them and say.. WTF!

Michael Cordiez wrote:

Joel,  I don't know what information you are privy to but my subscription was placed on June 9th, 2008 and not in 2010 after the last issue was produced. 
I have resent my thread of emails from 2008, 2009 & 2010 about this matter and am awaiting a response from [email protected].

I am sad to hear that the magazine is no longer being published but am happy to hear, thanks to the information posted in this thread than any outstanding issues will be addressed.  The single (back-ordered) copy that sits on my bookshelf is kind of lonely.

I am sure Michael if you are sending this information to them today, and you are in their records, you will be taken care of. I find it hard to believe that an order that far back was not fulfilled.. They had no issues with fulfillment while there were issues being produced.

Joel Adams wrote:

-Most in this thread never had subscriptions.

-Noone is denying that subscriptions after the last issue should be compensated, Carrie Leigh has said as much and more.

-OMG.. Did an email go unanswered? does that happen? I mean.. email is a perfect system where messages never get lost or may end up in junk files right.. Hmmmm so you must be right.. there absolutely must be something there... I mean.. you yourself actually know this person who said they sent an email and you know for a fact that it was sent right?? I think maybe you may be changing my mind on this whole thing here... Maybe I am on the wrong side, because you obviously have all the facts here.... Maybe you want to share those receipts with me and I will go back to them and say.. WTF!

My post specifically quoted two people who had subscriptions, what other people in the thread did is irrelevant to what I was saying. Regardless of that, how would you know how many people in this thread actually subscribed? I mean obviously I'm the love child of mr. And mrs. Unbound so you'd know if I bought something with my legal name, but what about everybody else who uses stage names? You know each poster here personally? Neat.

Also not something my last post touched on.

One email got lost? One single email? See michaels post above. However, dismissing a lost or unanswered email as no big deal is really shitty customer service, you're pretty much painting Carrie Leigh as a site that doesn't care much about it's customers if emails regarding money are no big deal.

Laura UnBound wrote:

My post specifically quoted two people who had subscriptions, what other people in the thread did is irrelevant to what I was saying. Regardless of that, how would you know how many people in this thread actually subscribed? I mean obviously I'm the love child of mr. And mrs. Unbound so you'd know if I bought something with my legal name, but what about everybody else who uses stage names? You know each poster here personally? Neat.

Also not something my last post touched on.

One email got lost? One single email? See michaels post above. However, dismissing a lost or unanswered email as no big deal is really shitty customer service, you're pretty much painting Carrie Leigh as a site that doesn't care much about it's customers if emails regarding money are no big deal.

-1 I am not customer service.

-2 You never complained about personally having a subscription problem so there was no reason to have you looked up at NUDE. Plus I do have little birds that don't want to post here that do supply me with information on a few people posting.

-3 Michael, who may be one of the few legitimate people with a complaint, will probably try again and get his answers from NUDE, he also didn't come in slandering and bitching and very politely stated his situation, and I was more than happy to get past dealing with the rest of you to try and help him.

-4 As you, LU, have none of the actual facts on Micheal's instance, or any facts at all here, why not butt out of it.

Joel Adams wrote:
1) as last week, I no longer work for NUDE other than Updating the website until it is all done.

Betcha didn't know that as long as your name is on the masthead...you are part of the organization and as such are vulnerable but not protected by the corporation.

That one will fester for a long time, that goes for the managing editor too - still have that warm and fuzzy feeling?

Joel Adams wrote:

-Most in this thread never had subscriptions.

-Noone is denying that subscriptions after the last issue should be compensated, Carrie Leigh has said as much and more.

-OMG.. Did an email go unanswered? does that happen? I mean.. email is a perfect system where messages never get lost or may end up in junk files right.. Hmmmm so you must be right.. there absolutely must be something there... I mean.. you yourself actually know this person who said they sent an email and you know for a fact that it was sent right?? I think maybe you may be changing my mind on this whole thing here... Maybe I am on the wrong side, because you obviously have all the facts here.... Maybe you want to share those receipts with me and I will go back to them and say.. WTF!

Shit happens is not a good enough excuse when you've been accepting payment for two years for a product that does not exist.

But at least you tried.  No one is convinced, but you at least tried.

John Horwitz wrote:
c'mon Joel - I looked you up on the net, and you have some cred for a 40 something artist so I couldn't help but wonder why you would GIVE your work away to this rag? and defend them so vigerously

I gave my work away because I loved the magazine and I loved being a part of it... I know Carrie and her husband very well and would work again with them on anything. I have a technical Emmy for my work on King of the Hill, but I value the 12 issues of NUDE I was a part of over that and most of what I have been a part of. I know Carrie Leigh to be anything but a dishonest person, I know the behind the scenes of what was going on and how hard she was fighting to keep it alive... I know the fights with distributors, the search for new printers that could keep the same quality, the search for other ways to distribute while Borders and Barnes and Noble were downsized and liquidated. She tried.

You know the magazine wasn't a rag because you know you yourself wanted to be in it. 

I will defend them vigorously because of who I know they are, what I know they have done, and what I know they haven't done... The many photographers who have been in the magazine would, i am sure, do the same... Maybe not with my venom, but the desire to defend them as well, but I doubt any of them are on ModelMayhem anymore, if ever.

I will walk away from NUDE feeling like I was a part of something good. Not many things in life actually give you that feeling.. Most things I walk away from, just pay my bills.. some very well.. but it is a job

Joel Adams wrote:

-4 As you, LU, have none of the actual facts on Micheal's instance, or any facts at all here, why not butt out of it.

I made a post to you earlier.....you ignored it.

But seriously......there are many folks floating around that might know some facts that haven't even been tossed into this thread.....& per MM rules cannot be tossed into this thread.........why don't you just STFU and go eat your lunch all by yourself?

Joel Adams wrote:

-1 I am not customer service.

-2 You never complained about personally having a subscription problem so there was no reason to have you looked up at NUDE. Plus I do have little birds that don't want to post here that do supply me with information on a few people posting.

-3 Michael, who may be one of the few legitimate people with a complaint, will probably try again and get his answers from NUDE, he also didn't come in slandering and bitching and very politely stated his situation, and I was more than happy to get past dealing with the rest of you to try and help him.

-4 As you, LU, have none of the actual facts on Micheal's instance, or any facts at all here, why not butt out of it.

For someone who isn't customer service you sure are acting like its a part of your own personal dealing with the site, i.e. The portion I bolded.

Regardless of if your department is cs or not, by publicly stating your affiliation with the site all of your actions thereafter reflect on not only your character but also the site you're representing. Most places would fire you for how you've acted in this thread and you're only the web guy.


Clearly the point I made about OTHER people besides the two I specifically quoted being irrelevant went over your head, twice. I don't have a subscription with CL, that's exactly the point. YOUR defense that "most" (an unproven claim since you don't know the legal names or financial info of most the posters in this thread) the posters in this thread aren't subscribers is irrelevant to the arguments and points being made. It doesn't take someone putting their money into it to know of its fucked up and have an opinion about it.

Open forum, I'll butt out when I feel like it or when the thread is locked. For being just the web guy you sure are taking this personally.

unbearable lightness wrote:

People have asked me to respond here.  If you look around you at the recession and the general state of libraries and bookstores and publishers all over the world, you will realize that NUDE's distribution system went under.  Barnes & Noble and Borders have downsized to almost nothing in print, and the U.S. postal service has cut delivery days and closed post offices all over the country. 

One thing I know from working with Carrie Leigh.  Not only is she a big talent but she is also a very intelligent woman.  With her status in the publishing world, I wouldn't count NUDE down and out yet.  When the time comes, she will definitely re-emerge.  Many realize the contribution NUDE has made to fine art nude photography, realize the permanency of this unique and legendary print publication, and actually are grateful.  I am.  It has been a highlight of my life to know and work with the NUDE family.

When did USPS cut delivery days?

unbearable lightness wrote:
[b]U.S. postal service has cut delivery days .

Revisionist History CJ, a steaming pile!

Joel Adams wrote:

Hey John.. No-one is looking to collect anything from anyone 'on' Model Mayhem. According to California Law.. MM's parent company is responsible for everything written in this thread.

It is all being screen saved in case Carrie is interested in recourse.

She sues IB/MM hoping to get the refund money for the people ripped off by fake subscriptions?
It is a horribly sad situation what has happened to NUDE magazine, but selling subscriptions to a magazine that is no longer being printed is sleezy, even if they were hoping to get back to printing, the sales should have been halted.

unbearable lightness wrote:

Well said, Joel, and I hear you about having other things to do.  I want to quickly clarify that the last issue of NUDE was not two years ago.  Again, a look at the website http://www.carrieleigh.com would override the misinformation and psychobabble going on here.

We have stated that refunds will be sent, so what is the problem with these people???  For the most part, the complainers never purchased a NUDE online anyway.  That points to the only logical motive for their comments, and that would be to defame a business and a person.

I purchased a subscription, I have received 2 copies of the fall 2010 issue which was published BEFORE I subscribed some time last year.

unbearable lightness wrote:
That points to the only logical motive for their comments, and that would be to defame a business and a person.

The only person who can destroy your reputation is YOU!

Joel Adams wrote:
According to California Law.. MM's parent company is responsible for everything written in this thread.

It is all being screen saved in case Carrie is interested in recourse.

Would you humor me and cite that law, please?

Would you also explain how you reconcile that law with 47 U.S.C. § 230?

Thank you very much.

(NB. You can argue either side of 230 immunity. I'm curious which side you'll endorse.)