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1234last
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,818
Portland, Oregon, US


Ex-student in Rutgers webcam case gets 30 days

On one hand, I think he got off light.

On the other hand,
...  he's had to deal with this case for a long time,
...  he probably has very large legal fees,
...  he is exposed to a wrongful death civil suit.

So, I guess it's time to move on.
May 21 12 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Homme
Posts: 3,185
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


I hope the family nails his ass in civil court.
May 21 12 10:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Reflected
Posts: 16,043
New York, New York, US


Shon D.- Homme wrote:
I hope the family nails his ass in civil court.

Which, as justice goes, would be poetic. 

I doubt he'll see the inside of a jail cell, not for a day of the 30.

A more accurate summary than the one linked in the OP:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18149395

May 21 12 10:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The sentence was way too lenient, but there is the inevitable civil suit. And if there's any poetic justice in this universe, the guy'll be the dream date of his cell block while he's doing his thirty days.
May 21 12 11:02 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,403
San Francisco, California, US


I hate hate crimes
May 21 12 11:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves.
May 21 12 11:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves.

Outing a kid who didn't want to be outed... That's a one hell of a "prank."

May 21 12 11:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Homme
Posts: 3,185
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves.

What kind of "logic" is that?

May 21 12 12:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

Outing a kid who didn't want to be outed... That's a one hell of a "prank."

The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

May 21 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why.

He kills himself days after being outed and your defense is that the kid didn't leave a suicide note?

What kind of moron would out his roommate to the world and not think something bad might come of it?

He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video?

That's some fucked-up attempt at logic there, Art.

He *would* be held responsible for the other guy if the other guy had killed himself over the outing. Who knows? Maybe the other guy was already out.

May 21 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-Ira
Posts: 2,174
New York, New York, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:

The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

"Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."

"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness."

May 21 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

You can't possibly be that dense. This has to be a joke.

May 21 12 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:

The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

I'm assuming he killed himself because he was not open with his lifestyle and didn't want it broadcasted? Felt betrayed that someone would violate his trust and privacy? Fell into a depression he couldn't cope with?

May 21 12 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


IraMonko wrote:

"Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."

"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness."

oh. exactly. Thank you.

May 21 12 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 9,250
Seattle, Washington, US


I hope he will end up in the gay row. Let him be the bitch of some hairy dudes for a month.
May 21 12 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


-Nicole- wrote:

I'm assuming he killed himself because he was not open with his lifestyle and didn't want it broadcasted? Felt betrayed that someone would violate his trust and privacy? Fell into a depression he couldn't cope with?

The other guy was in the video too

May 21 12 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14,170
Columbus, Ohio, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves.

Spying on someone when they have no knowledge of it and then outing them is not a prank.
The sooner people realize the cruelty behind such an act, the better off people will be. I am sick and tired of the excuses people make for people being cruel, it's not boys being boys or a light-hearted college prank. It's people being cruel, simple as that. Being traumatized because someone else thought it was funny and then killing yourself because of the emotional trauma isn't your fault. It's the people who subjected you to their own cruel will's fault. They had absolutely no right to do such a thing to the young man, and the fact that they even might have thought it was a funny prank just shows their own mental problems.

We need to be teaching our children that this sort of thing is never funny so that something like this doesn't happen again instead of writing it off with excuses that actually don't truly excuse cruelty, even more so when someone is over 18 and should know better than to be so cruel. In the eyes of the law, there needs to be larger consequences for such crimes as this that lead to extreme emotional trauma of another person because you felt the right to subject them to your will.

May 21 12 12:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

He kills himself days after being outed and your defense is that the kid didn't leave a suicide note?

What kind of moron would out his roommate to the world and not think something bad might come of it?

You need to watch Youtube a bit more.

May 21 12 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3,457
Austin, Texas, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:

The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

Let it go man. This isn't the crowd. Trust me.

May 21 12 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Erick Prince wrote:

Let it go man. This isn't the crowd. Trust me.

gotcha! wink

May 21 12 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14,170
Columbus, Ohio, US


Shon D.- Homme wrote:
What kind of "logic" is that?

The logic of someone who thinks it's okay to play cruel "jokes" on LGBT people that invade their privacy and often result in emotional trauma, most likely.

May 21 12 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:

The other guy was in the video too

So?

Maybe he was out. Maybe it wasn't a big deal. Maybe he didn't suffer from depression.

May 21 12 12:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,733
Buena Park, California, US


He should be held liable for whatever laws there are against unauthorized whatever it is he did.  He wasn't charged with murder and as far a civil suit...that will depend on the jury but I suspect the family will lose their lawsuit.



30 days seems VERY lenient, but I'd want to see how much time people normally spend in doing what he's done which I'm sure happens a lot more frequently than we'd care to know. 

While tragic, I don't see how we should legally hold people responsible for the suicide of others.  The guy's an asshole, that's for sure.
May 21 12 01:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,733
Buena Park, California, US


IraMonko wrote:

"Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."

"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness."

that only gets 30 days?  tampering with a witness alone I'd throw 6 to 12 months at him.  Plus a nice fine.

May 21 12 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14,170
Columbus, Ohio, US


Christopher Hartman wrote:

that only gets 30 days?  tampering with a witness alone I'd throw 6 to 12 months at him.  Plus a nice fine.

I'm dumbfounded by it.

May 21 12 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Dave the design student
Posts: 45,198
Detroit, Michigan, US


Why was he spying on a gay guy?
May 21 12 01:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cait Chan
Posts: 6,272
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other guy was in the video too

Why do you keep saying this??

Everyone copes with things differently. Because the other kid didn't kill himself means NOTHING, when talking about what ANDREW felt to take his own life.

Some people kill themselves after dealing with trauma, embarrassment, or depression. Most don't. This is what makes suicide a tragedy because some people in certain situations feel there is no other way out.

Please don't pretend you don't already know this. You're being ridiculous.

May 21 12 01:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Reflected
Posts: 16,043
New York, New York, US


Cait Chan wrote:
Why do you keep saying this??

Everyone copes with things differently. Because the other kid didn't kill himself means NOTHING, when talking about what ANDREW felt to take his own life.

Some people kill themselves after dealing with trauma, embarrassment, or depression. Most don't. This is what makes suicide a tragedy because some people in certain situations feel there is no other way out.

Please don't pretend you don't already know this. You're being ridiculous.

Who is Andrew?

May 21 12 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cait Chan
Posts: 6,272
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Reflected wrote:
Who is Andrew?

Oh wow super weird. I have a friend Andrew with the same last name  Totally meant Tyler. Didn't even realize i wrote that

May 21 12 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
--Ishtar--
Posts: 1,245
Heerlen, Limburg, Netherlands


May 21 12 04:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stay Puft
Posts: 2,413
Ofu, Manu'a, American Samoa


I agree that he was guilty of the charges he was convicted of, and for that he should be, and is being punished.

That said, I am always a bit uncomfortable with the idea that someone "caused" someone else to commit suicide. It seems like people are making these arguments more and more about bullies, and while I hate bullying, it's hard for me to say that a bully should be held responsible for a suicide (this one or any other).

The suicide victim might have had many larger issues that were bothering them more, perhaps they were already depressed and suicidal, and the bully might have been no big deal to them in their personal view. Blaming the bully is necessarily circumstantial, and I think going down that road and putting people in prison for 'murder' based on a "bullying induced suicide" theory is very problematic.

But that didn't happen here, so I have no problem with this finding. Perhaps the sentence could have been longer.
May 21 12 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33,750
San Francisco, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.

Seriously? Calling this a college prank is playing his action's down. Would you call it a prank if someone recorded you and your woman doing the nasty or you and some guy doing the nasty where it end up online a "prank"? Dude, that's your privacy that is invaded. If you jack off, that's your business. No one is obligated to have the rest of the world see you in your intimate moment unless you give consent.

May 21 12 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33,750
San Francisco, California, US


--Ishtar-- wrote:

I suspect our defendant may well be a latent gay himself. Not yet having accepted this side of himself, he decides to spy on his roommate as a 'prank'. Just my theory here.

Yeap. When I hear people do that or are quick to make similar actions such as calling someone gay on the defense, chances are great that they're in the closet.

May 21 12 05:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide.
May 21 12 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Homme
Posts: 3,185
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide.

Yeah, no. That's not the same at all. This isn't about us being "angry." This is about you and your faulty logic. We don't know ANYTHING about the other man in the video. Did he attend the same school? Was the video broadcast to anyone that he knew? Was he out of the closet? Was he suffering from depression? Etc etc etc?

Tyler Clementi is dead because he was pushed to the edge by Dharun Ravi's actions. This was not a "prank." I have no idea why people are defending someone who recorded someone else having sex and broadcast it over the web. Even if you take his being gay (and the outing and all of that) out of the equation, you still cannot convince me that this wasn't wrong.

May 21 12 06:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Homme
Posts: 3,185
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


And I still hope that Clementi's family takes his ass to the cleaners in civil court.
May 21 12 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
netmodel
Posts: 6,786
Austin, Texas, US


He's not on trial for his suicide, you know that?

Ravi was convicted in March of invasion of privacy, bias intimidation on the basis of sexual orientation — an offense widely referred to as a hate crime — and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness.

That's all there is. He is NOT responsible for his suicide (and why should anyone be responsible for someone's suicide?!).

Why is he getting prison where most would just serve probation? Simple. The last sentence said, "Before the trial, prosecutors had offered Ravi a plea bargain that called for no prison time. He turned it down."

He blew his chance.
May 21 12 07:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


netmodel wrote:
He's not on trial for his suicide, you know that?

Ravi was convicted in March of invasion of privacy, bias intimidation on the basis of sexual orientation — an offense widely referred to as a hate crime — and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness.

That's all there is. He is NOT responsible for his suicide (and why should anyone be responsible for someone's suicide?!).

Why is he getting prison where most would just serve probation? Simple. The last sentence said, "Before the trial, prosecutors had offered Ravi a plea bargain that called for no prison time. He turned it down."

He blew his chance.

Perfectly said.

May 21 12 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33,750
San Francisco, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide.

Bashing you? Lol. No, I'm zooming in on the part where you played this down as a simple college prank. Again, that's invasion of your privacy. For me it's not about the guy being gay. It's about your right to having privacy. Again, if this were you and your lady in the heat of moment being broadcast across the internet for everyone else to see without your consent, you'd call that a prank?

May 21 12 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Legacys 7 wrote:
Bashing you? Lol. No, I'm zooming in on the part where you played this down as a simple college prank. Again, that's invasion of your privacy. For me it's not about the guy being gay. It's about your right to having privacy. Again, if this were you and your lady in the heat of moment being broadcast across the internet for everyone else to see without your consent, you'd call that a prank?

Yes and hope it would make us money. You all got to check out Youtube. remember there was the other guy in the video too. He's not complaining.

May 21 12 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
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