AJScalzitti wrote:

Superior choice for what exactly?  Yet another person assumes that eveyone shoots the same things they do...

"Yet another person assumes that eveyone shoots the same things, in the same way, with the same techniques, processes, and post-processes, as they do... "

Horses for courses.

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Good luck with that.  Canon aren't going to bring out the 46MP camera this year or next year.  The rumors is nothing more than Canon fanboyish dream so that they won't feel bad about the D800.

  Also, Canon has the 5DIII 22MP at MRSP of $3500.  Imagine 5DX (or whatever it is going to be called), how much do you think this 46MP is going to cost? $4500, $5500?

The way I see it.  Canon has to put money in R&D onto the sensor technology.  It needs to improve on DR and get rid completely get rid of Shadow noise/banding in order to complete with Sony's sensor.

Sony's? Oh, you mean the sensor's Sony manufactures following the designs specified by Nikon? I don't think Sony did *that great in the DR/low-noise department. Then again, I don't really do that kind of stuff. (compare brands/fanboi/wtvr)

Why in the world would anyone want cameras that ramjam *that many megashnitzels onto a lil 35mm sensor? Those same people may want to consider learning more about "photosites" and how they affect DR, tonality and trueness of colours.... http://1derful.info/Words/Case.htm

IMHO alone, as always;

Ðanny
http://www.dbiphotography.com (Blog On Site) 

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:
You should try renting or borrowing the D800 and put older lenses (lenses that you think are sharp), take some pictures and then put the 85mm f1.8G or 85mm f1.4G on and take some pictures.  Compare the images and you will see. 

   The D800/D600's sensor is great.  Modern Lenses are better than previous generation with exception of few lenses that are made by Leica and Zeiss.

Probably won't be an option for me to rent just for lens comparison.  And, I'm not sure it's possible to compare apples to apples here.  Have been a Canon shooter for the past 16 years, but that may be about to change.  Like others, I'm afraid that Canon has fallen so far behind the curve that they won't catch up in my remaining shooting years.  So, I'm likely going to switch to the Nikon system, but I will definitely try it out first.  It's not just for the MP's; I'm actually happy with the 18 that my 7D puts out. My experience with Canon this year has not been a happy one.  Twelve or so years ago when Windows/MS fell behind the curve, I made that move and never regretted it.

DBIphotography Toronto wrote:

Sony's? Oh, you mean the sensor's Sony manufactures following the designs specified by Nikon? I don't think Sony did *that great in the DR/low-noise department. Then again, I don't really do that kind of stuff. (compare brands/fanboi/wtvr)

Why in the world would anyone want cameras that ramjam *that many megashnitzels onto a lil 35mm sensor? Those same people may want to consider learning more about "photosites" and how they affect DR, tonality and trueness of colours.... http://1derful.info/Words/Case.htm

IMHO alone, as always;

Ðanny
http://www.dbiphotography.com (Blog On Site) 

Sony's have their own Sensor technology design, EXMOR.  I believe the new sensor now is EXMOR R.  Eventually that will come into DSLR in few years and it supposed to have even higher light sensitivity.

  Nikon's EXPEED just happen to be better than Sony's signal processor for still.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeed

  Anyway, Nikon twist a little with the EXMOR but the underground design itself is still Sony's.
 
  Technologies has improved.  we now see 36MP on 36cmx24cm sensor and it performs better than 11mp on 36cmx24cm few years ago.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:

Probably won't be an option for me to rent just for lens comparison.  And, I'm not sure it's possible to compare apples to apples here.  Have been a Canon shooter for the past 16 years, but that may be about to change.  Like others, I'm afraid that Canon has fallen so far behind the curve that they won't catch up in my remaining shooting years.  So, I'm likely going to switch to the Nikon system, but I will definitely try it out first.  It's not just for the MP's; I'm actually happy with the 18 that my 7D puts out. My experience with Canon this year has not been a happy one.  Twelve or so years ago when Windows/MS fell behind the curve, I made that move and never regretted it.

Use the best tools that fit your need. 

Joseph Peffer wrote:
People who do not understand high resolution cameras do not need one, its that simple. These cameras are meant for big prints and catalog work. If all you do is print under 30x40 prints or for online viewing, that would be a waste. You also shouldn't shoot people with a camera with over 40 mp anyways.

What your argument doesn't take into consideration is that people like to crop in.  It's a cheap zoom.  That's why even iPhones these days have 8MP cameras.

Neil Snape wrote:

I sell prints in galleries. The bigger they are the more I charge, and the profit is much greater with the proportional size.

My Canon 5DII is okay yet suffers a little at 24" wide. A Nikon D800 or a larger DSLR would work for me. A MF is too slow and too expensive.

you should try blue cube, I got great prints from a canon rebel xti at 27x40 from them. Maybe your printer isn't where it should be?

moving pictures wrote:
Today's Canon Rumors posts,

"I have received more confirmations that the current plan is to showcase a new 46.1mp Canon EOS 3D at PhotoPlus in New York City in October."

I'm shocked, shocked to hear that some of the MM experts here may be wrong in stating that Canon will not/cannot/not in the near future, release such a camera. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/cano … month-cr1/

That is good to know if it is true..   Secondly, when will it be available and at what price?  It simply can't be cheaper than 5DIII.  I assumed that it would be around $5K?

Canon's marketing group are great, announcing something far ahead to stop the bleeding.


Edit:  This also makes no sense.  Why didn't Canon announce it during PhotoKina?  Photokina is so big, it would make sense to announce then as it would attract more people.

moving pictures wrote:

What your argument doesn't take into consideration is that people like to crop in.  It's a cheap zoom.  That's why even iPhones these days have 8MP cameras.

Following up on ...

Hmmm... 36mpx cropped to 12 mpx would give the equivalent of what mm lens, saving how much money?

moving pictures wrote:
Today's Canon Rumors posts,

"I have received more confirmations that the current plan is to showcase a new 46.1mp Canon EOS 3D at PhotoPlus in New York City in October."

I'm shocked, shocked to hear that some of the MM experts here may be wrong in stating that Canon will not/cannot/not in the near future, release such a camera. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/cano … month-cr1/

Did you notice that the post is rated only as a "CR1?"  That means that it is just a rumor, but not considered a reliable one.

Virtual Studio wrote:
Shrug - the Foveon guys have been here for a while now. Not impressed.

Except that the Foveon guy asked for $9K at the beginning..

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Except that the Foveon guy asked for $9K at the beginning..

I know! At $2,000 I'd seriously consider buying one of those cameras they look great. For 9,000 not so. And now they're a brand I'd never even consider because I know there are ass-clowns running the company.

Virtual Studio wrote:
Shrug - the Foveon guys have been here for a while now. Not impressed.

And the Foveon sensor is not 46Mpixel. It only has 15Mpixel of spatial resolution. Even the Foveon guys have laid off the claims of 45Mpixel now.

ei Total Productions wrote:

Did you notice that the post is rated only as a "CR1?"  That means that it is just a rumor, but not considered a reliable one.

I do.  Hence continue to label this as "rumors"

Virtual Studio wrote:
Shrug - the Foveon guys have been here for a while now. Not impressed.

The Foveon sensor is more recent technology.  It is still being developed.

Virtual Studio wrote:

I know! At $2,000 I'd seriously consider buying one of those cameras they look great. For 9,000 not so. And now they're a brand I'd never even consider because I know there are ass-clowns running the company.

Do you know them personally?

Virtual Studio wrote:
I know! At $2,000 I'd seriously consider buying one of those cameras they look great. For 9,000 not so. And now they're a brand I'd never even consider because I know there are ass-clowns running the company.

The current price of the Sigma SD1 Merrill Digital SLR Camera with the Foveon sensor is $1999 at B&H.

Virtual Studio wrote:
I know! At $2,000 I'd seriously consider buying one of those cameras they look great. For 9,000 not so. And now they're a brand I'd never even consider because I know there are ass-clowns running the company.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
The current price of the Sigma SD1 Merrill Digital SLR Camera with the Foveon sensor is $1999 at B&H.

Hence my comment that $2K is a fair price. $9K was an utter joke.

Virtual Studio wrote:

Virtual Studio wrote:
I know! At $2,000 I'd seriously consider buying one of those cameras they look great. For 9,000 not so. And now they're a brand I'd never even consider because I know there are ass-clowns running the company.

Hence my comment that $2K is a fair price. $9K was an utter joke.

It is not unusual for a newly introduced product to start at a very high price.
I couldn't afford it at $9000. but I can afford it at $2000.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
It is not unusual for a newly introduced product to start at a very high price.
I couldn't afford it at $9000. but I can afford it at $2000.

I certainly couldn't afford it at $9K - at $2K it looks like a steal. However i would be really worried about locking myself into a system where the upgrade to my $2K camera may be set at $9K again.

With respect a $7K drop is extraordinary under any circumstances.

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

I believe so too since the D3X is only 24MP and it is asking for 8K.  Canon wouldn't imaging Nikon would bring out a 24MP for $4000.  The D800 really caught Canon surprise, especially 36MP for $3000 and it has highest DR rating.

My take is that we won't see Canon's new sensor technology in two or three years.  Canon also needs to update some of its lenses as the new Nikkor lenses are better than the current Canon lenses (.i.e. 50mm G series, 85mm G series, 24mm, 35mm f1.4G series etc).

You forget Canon showed a 128Mpix sensor about 18 months ago. To assume they have not been doing research is not a wise assumption. Four years go they amazed people with the 5D2 and is sensor. Nikon/Sony caught them and passed them. There is zero reason to think they cannot do the same back. They have before.

sublime LightWorks wrote:
You forget Canon showed a 128Mpix sensor about 18 months ago. To assume they have not been doing research is not a wise assumption. Four years go they amazed people with the 5D2 and is sensor. Nikon/Sony caught them and passed them. There is zero reason to think they cannot do the same back. They have before.

Just because a company produce a 120MP sensor does not means that it is new technology.  My guess is that they are using the same 7 years old technology.  With Canon's current technology, the more MP they put onto the FF sensor, the more noise it is going to be.

  By the way, the 120MP that Canon showed was only the sensor.  We have no idea what the image would look like if that sensor were used.  To me, it is just marketing.



  CMOSIS also announced the 70MP 36cmx24cm sensor:

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … -31um.html


  Sony also has high MP sensor but I can't remember what the number was.

The 8MP sensor (the pixel size is 1.4um)  inside the Iphone 5 is from Sony.  Now, if you were to multiple that out to equal to the size of 36cmx24cm, you would be surprise.  The D800's pixel size is 4.7um.

  Here is an example of Sony's new sensor Exmor R:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtBZOXiASQk

  The Exmor RS is supposed to be better.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … ducts.html

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Just because a company produce a 120MP sensor does not means that it is new technology.  My guess is that they are using the same 7 years old technology.  With Canon's current technology, the more MP they put onto the FF sensor, the more noise it is going to be.

  By the way, the 120MP that Canon showed was only the sensor.  We have no idea what the image would look like if that sensor were used.  To me, it is just marketing.



  CMOSIS also announced the 70MP 36cmx24cm sensor:

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … -31um.html


  Sony also has high MP sensor but I can't remember what the number was.

The 8MP sensor (the pixel size is 1.4um)  inside the Iphone 5 is from Sony.  Now, if you were to multiple that out to equal to the size of 36cmx24cm, you would be surprise.  The D800's pixel size is 4.7um.

  Here is an example of Sony's new sensor Exmor R:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtBZOXiASQk

  The Exmor RS is supposed to be better.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … ducts.html

Point is its your "guess". Nothing more. You're assuming something with no actual facts. In other words you have even less info than the rumor sites.  And FYI, Sony is in the business of selling those sensor chips. Canon is not. So you aren't going to see anything they have under wraps.

Fact is they did produce and show a 120Mpix sensor. Fact is you have no idea what it's based on.
Latest rumor is this 46Mpix is a different sensor technology and design. But that's all rumor too. You don't know.  I don't know. But we'll see. So let's get off the guessing game and pull for all makers and R&D to design and build better stuff. Then we all benefit from it.

Right now I'm a Canon 7D and 5D3 shooter who also owns a Phase One and a Hasselblad 500 with some Carl Zeiss glass I inherited from my dad. Frankly I would like to have something like the D800 from Canon so I can dump the Phase One and just go with my large collection of L glass.

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Just because a company produce a 120MP sensor does not means that it is new technology.  My guess is that they are using the same 7 years old technology.  With Canon's current technology, the more MP they put onto the FF sensor, the more noise it is going to be.

  By the way, the 120MP that Canon showed was only the sensor.  We have no idea what the image would look like if that sensor were used.  To me, it is just marketing.



  CMOSIS also announced the 70MP 36cmx24cm sensor:

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … -31um.html


  Sony also has high MP sensor but I can't remember what the number was.

The 8MP sensor (the pixel size is 1.4um)  inside the Iphone 5 is from Sony.  Now, if you were to multiple that out to equal to the size of 36cmx24cm, you would be surprise.  The D800's pixel size is 4.7um.

  Here is an example of Sony's new sensor Exmor R:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtBZOXiASQk

  The Exmor RS is supposed to be better.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com … ducts.html

And your guesses are no better than anyone else's, except that they have a common theme of negativity towards canon.

Phil Drinkwater wrote:

And your guesses are no better than anyone else's, except that they have a common theme of negativity towards canon.

+1

Phil Drinkwater wrote:
And your guesses are no better than anyone else's, except that they have a common theme of negativity towards canon.

And to make the point, this was your first post in this thread:

"Good luck with that.  Canon aren't going to bring out the 46MP camera this year or next year.  The rumors is nothing more than Canon fanboyish dream so that they won't feel bad about the D800.

  Also, Canon has the 5DIII 22MP at MRSP of $3500.  Imagine 5DX (or whatever it is going to be called), how much do you think this 46MP is going to cost? $4500, $5500?

The way I see it.  Canon has to put money in R&D onto the sensor technology.  It needs to improve on DR and get rid completely get rid of Shadow noise/banding in order to complete with Sony's sensor."

Phil Drinkwater wrote:
The way I see it.  Canon has to put money in R&D onto the sensor technology.  It needs to improve on DR and get rid completely get rid of Shadow noise/banding in order to complete with Sony's sensor."

I did see this in old Canons.

I haven't seen any banding in my images all the way to ISO 25800 on 5DIII.

Orcatek Photography wrote:
I did see this in old Canons.

I haven't seen any banding in my images all the way to ISO 25800 on 5DIII.

It definitely has improved. I can push shadows one stop with no issues. Clearly it's not as good as the sony sensors ... Yet.

However I don't need to push shadows in my work.

Robb Mann wrote:
As I see it Canon isn't pursuing Nikon, Hassy, Leica or anyone else in the still-photography market. They are far more likely to announce a surprise product to fill a gap exposed by a new RED or BlackMagic camera.

46mp? Nope. 4k in a $4k body? Yep.

This is on the right track.

The larger (e.g. Exmor) sensors are not just being used in still cams.  Sony already is using full frame (and larger) Exmor sensors in their Video cameras.  I have one in an NX-100 video cam.  The image quality from this video is pretty amazing.  And, the body has lots of great features, too: like being able to shoot sports at 240 fps and a shutter speed of 1/8000 (albeit for only a few seconds)  Newer bodies are already available with the ability to shoot up to 400 fps (with reduced resolution). 

They are all pursuing RED.  With this amount of information, the "processor" becomes highly important.  Lots of numbers to crunch in a very short time frame.

photoimager wrote:
Hands up those who prefer the DoF, bokeh etc of 'full frame' over crop ?

There you have a simple reason why MF digital will survive. Just as 24mp on a 'crop' body is not the same as 24mp on a 'full frame' body so 46mp on a 'full frame' body will not be the same as 46mp on a larger sensor size like MF.

Hands up those who prefer the DoF, bokeh etc of 'full frame' over crop ?

So that's actually only one effect you're talking about in your list of three things.

So the fastest Hasselblad lens is a f2.8 - most of them are as slow as Moses on a Bike.

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/v … enses.aspx

On my 4/3 sensor I can get a f0.95 and there are a few options at the f1.4 level.

You think there's a significant DOF advantage to MF?

Virtual Studio wrote:
So the fastest Hasselblad lens is a f2.8 -..........
On my 4/3 sensor I can get a f0.95 and there are a few options at the f1.4 level.
You think there's a significant DOF advantage to MF?

You are ignoring how the sensor size, aperture and DoF are related. For a given aperture, the smaller the sensor the bigger the DoF and the less rapid the transition / fall-off is.

photoimager wrote:
You are ignoring how the sensor size, aperture and DoF are related. For a given aperture, the smaller the sensor the bigger the DoF and the less rapid the transition / fall-off is.

No - that's why I was comparing a 2.8 MF lens with a 0.95 4/3 lens.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

The current price of the Sigma SD1 Merrill Digital SLR Camera with the Foveon sensor is $1999 at B&H.

Yes after the world called BS and the early buyers took it like prom night at Pelican Bay.