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Makeup Artist
Jenni Defalco
Posts: 456
Stevenage, England, United Kingdom


I've been dong some research online regarding chinas animal testing policies.  Ideally i do not want to use products from companys that conduct animal tests at any point in their production but after going through my kit almost everything will have to go! 

Alot of info states that all cosmetic products sold in china have to be tested on animals so my theory was if its sold in china its tested on animals although the site below states that only NEW ingredients need to be tested.....

Does anyone know any more info about this?

Hope i havent opened a can worms here, just finding so much conficlting info online would appreciate any feedback. I dont want to have to replace my faves if its not nessecery. Their websites state they don't test although they are being sold in china?!

http://www.cirs-reach.com/China_Chemica … China.html
Oct 20 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura Fillisch
Posts: 338
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia


I've simply stopped using cosmetic brands that sell in China as a catch-all.
Oct 20 12 09:28 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Maria Vittoria B
Posts: 57
London, England, United Kingdom


China is definitely ages behind us when it comes to animal rights and protection.

I recently followed the debate about Urban Decay announcing their expansion to the Chinese market, the subsequent rebellion of hundreds of consumers, and UD's decision to cancel their original plan. I thought it showed great respect to their consumers, but at the same time the issue brought up a heated discussion about animal testing in China.

It is my understanding that cosmetic companies, upon deciding to export their products to China, are expected to sign an agreement where the Chinese government reserves the right to test one or more ingredients before letting the product into their market. Having said that, there is no way to know which and how many products/ingredients are actually being tested.

In no way I am taking China's side, but just to say that products that you purchase in the US are unlikely to have been tested. From what I understand, it is only products that are meant for the Chinese market that get tested, and they test them in China, for the national market.

This poses another ethical issue, which is should we boycott companies that, by exporting to China, indirectly allow it to test on animals? That's up to you to decide, although I believe it is easier for a consumer than a professional, given the variety and quality of products you need in your kit, and that a substantial portion of the major international makeup brands are sold here as well.

However, in no way I claim to be an expert on the subject nor I am familiar with the actual policies, so I might be wrong.
Oct 20 12 08:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rieni Otten
Posts: 193
Auxerre, Bourgogne, France


Respect for make-up artists who are concerned about this. When I start shooting again, I'll work with MUAs who use cruelty free make-up only.
Sep 05 13 07:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Ezzie D
Posts: 9
Ypsilanti, Michigan, US


I love to read these posts. I am so glad there's still people concerned and against animal testing.

I don't understand why they feel they have to test it on them anyway. Animals don't use make up - people do. It goes along the same lines of testing drugs on them for people use. We don't have the same mechanical build, or however you call it. Humans will react differently. Like certain foods that are poisonous to animals we love to eat, and vice versa.
Sep 06 13 04:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
millieohio
Posts: 32
Urbana, Ohio, US


I will not buy from China. The vynal and fake fur was made out of dog leather and Dog fur. I do not believe in animal testing for cosmetics, hair color ect. The one time I did not check I ended up with glasses that I had to get stiches because of. Glass broke in my hand.
Sep 08 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
BodyPainter Rich
Posts: 17,928
Sacramento, California, US


I have the feeling that companies who DON'T sell to China will simply set up subsidiaries or sister companies to sell in China.
Sep 08 13 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,327
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I'm happy to see this is a concern for more people.

I try to stay away from makeup that isn't cruelty free.
Sep 08 13 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
ammyranth
Posts: 22
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


Rieni Otten wrote:
Respect for make-up artists who are concerned about this. When I start shooting again, I'll work with MUAs who use cruelty free make-up only.

I'm interested in your reply to this, I personally love the idea of a cruelty free kit but how far do you go? Do you expect the MUA's brushes to be completely synthetic too? What about skin care or items containing animals products like lanolin? Ideally i'd love to have a completely vegan, not tested on an animal or used a part of an animal kit but I don't know how realistic it really is.

Sep 08 13 08:54 pm  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


I'm an animal lover, I have one at my side right now.  I don't have an easy answer....   

Keep in mind, most testing isn't just makeup..most animal testing is on pharmaceuticals ...

If you're going to be consistent here (I can't stand hypocrisy)  you need to get out of your chair, go to your medicine cabinet and toss it all out...Toss your Tylenol, Prozac, zanex, aspirin, birth control pills, Adderall and Viagra (some bunny had fun with that one)    Don't everyone get up at once smile
Sep 09 13 01:39 am  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


oh, and keep in mind that Apple has a big factory in China where workers live in horrendous conditions and work for slave wages, they live at the factory...they have suicide nets for those workers living at the Apple factory.   Should we boycott Apple?  who suffers more? the animals in China or the people?  I can almost feel the mad rush of folks going to flush their Iphones and Ipads right now smile
Sep 09 13 01:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,368
Los Angeles, California, US


Mary wrote:
I'm an animal lover, I have one at my side right now.  I don't have an easy answer....   

Keep in mind, most testing isn't just makeup..most animal testing is on pharmaceuticals ...

If you're going to be consistent here (I can't stand hypocrisy)  you need to get out of your chair, go to your medicine cabinet and toss it all out...Toss your Tylenol, Prozac, zanex, aspirin, birth control pills, Adderall and Viagra (some bunny had fun with that one)    Don't everyone get up at once smile

One question for you as an "animal lover"....

Are you Vegan?

Sep 09 13 01:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,368
Los Angeles, California, US


Many cosmetics undergo animal testing, but there are also many that don't

Start here:
http://www.leapingbunny.org/logo.php


Look here for companies that do or commision animal testing:

http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/companiesdotest.pdf

Look here for companies that don't do animal testing... it's a nice long list:

http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/companiesdonttest.pdf

Once you have checked those lists you can go here and see how "Human friendly" the products are:

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/

Many cosmatics are dangerous to humans. Animal testing is often just about lowering liability, not true safety.
Sep 09 13 02:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,368
Los Angeles, California, US


Mary wrote:
oh, and keep in mind that Apple has a big factory in China where workers live in horrendous conditions and work for slave wages, they live at the factory...they have suicide nets for those workers living at the Apple factory.   Should we boycott Apple?  who suffers more? the animals in China or the people?  I can almost feel the mad rush of folks going to flush their Iphones and Ipads right now smile

What is worse is that Apple is sitting on a massive pile of cash.

Their products are excellent and their markups are very large. There is plenty of room to improve wages, but they really don't give a rat's ass.

No apple products for me thanks...

Other manufacturers are not too good either, but there is a huge amount to choose from and a wee bit of checking goes a long way to improve things

Sep 09 13 02:29 am  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


Fred Greissing wrote:
One question for you as an "animal lover"....

Are you Vegan?

No I'm not Vegan and I don't put animals at the same level I do humans...Human rights are more important to me then animal rights.  I would like to see all living creatures treated kindly (humans and animals) However, I do understand there is a choice and people make it every time they pop a pill or apply certain cosmetics...most  of which were tested at some point on animals.  Even if a particular cosmetics company doesn't test, they rely on testing done by others.

I do respect people that hold true to their values and forgo all animal products and everything tested on animals.... I lose respect when I see these same people pop pills... I just want to see consistency in convictions...not convictions only when it's easy (as in a cosmetics company choice)

Sep 09 13 02:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,368
Los Angeles, California, US


Mary wrote:

No I'm not Vegan and I don't put animals at the same level I do humans...Human rights are more important to me then animal rights.  I would like to see all living creatures treated kindly (humans and animals) However, I do understand there is a choice and people make it every time they pop a pill or apply certain cosmetics...most  of which were tested at some point on animals.  Even if a particular cosmetics company doesn't test, they rely on testing done by others.

Not exactly.
Most of the animal cruelty certifications require no testing by the company or buy their suppliers.

However it's nice to see that you sell Joe Blasco ... a company that has gone cruelty free. Still no vegan products, but they took a move in the right direction.

Sep 09 13 02:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,368
Los Angeles, California, US


Mary wrote:
I do respect people that hold true to their values and forgo all animal products and everything tested on animals.... I lose respect when I see these same people pop pills... I just want to see consistency in convictions...not convictions only when it's easy (as in a cosmetics company choice)

There is a huge difference with dealing with an illness compared to the rather more superficial need for cosmetics.

Would it not be fair to say that a person using the animal lover title that eats animals industrially produced is more of a hippocrit than an ill person taking a medication but avoids animal cruely where that can. wink

Sep 09 13 03:00 am  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


Fred, everything in the products even by cruelty free companies have been tested if it was necessary to put on the market... Some companies just piggy back on the testing others have done...

And if you believe animals are on the same level as humans you wouldn't use ANYTHING  that causes their pain and suffering...including drugs...

I love animals but I don't put them at a level anywhere near human beings and so yes, I think raising animals as a food source is fine if they are treated humanely.  I also think using them for necessary testing on drugs is fine. 

For cosmetics... It's not necessary to test much anymore unless a new ingredient comes along that requires testing to avoid blinding or killing a human being.

Companies keep their hands clean by using stuff already tested or using 3rd parties to test... It's like feeling better that you paid a hit man rather then pulling the trigger yourself....
Sep 09 13 11:17 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Lauren Reynolds Makeup
Posts: 282
London, England, United Kingdom


Mary wrote:
For cosmetics... It's not necessary to test much anymore unless a new ingredient comes along that requires testing to avoid blinding or killing a human being.

It's not necessary at all anymore smile it's now illegal in the EU to sell new products (including new ingredients - key point) that have been tested on animals anywhere in the world.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21740745

Hopefully the move will have a strong knock-on effect... If non-EU companies choose to test on animals they exclude that product or ingredient from being sold in Europe, which is a huge market you'd think they wouldn't want to miss out on. Either that or they'll move out. Time will tell I guess.

Sep 09 13 03:01 pm  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
TheMakeupMan
Posts: 3,755
Los Angeles, California, US


Ill just say I do what I can where I can
I have 2 dogs and a cat 2 lizards and 3 puffer fish
And I don't plan on eating them anytime soon .......
Sep 09 13 03:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
TheBeautyFiend
Posts: 1
Austin, Texas, US


Rieni Otten wrote:
Respect for make-up artists who are concerned about this. When I start shooting again, I'll work with MUAs who use cruelty free make-up only.

MUCH respect to YOU. I am a animal rights activist, makeup artist/ re-emerging model and I strictly only buy cruelty-free products but I do not limit it to just cosmetics, I really make it a point to buy as much cruelty free as I can for all of the needs in my life, whether it is clothing, household products, food, skincare, etc. I think it is really great and admirable when an artist makes the decision for themselves to go cruelty-free. The way I see it is we all decided to go cruelty-free at one point or another, and before that time we invested tons of money into products that were manufactured by companies that test. Our money has already gone to those companies, so we might as well use up the products, but when it comes time to repurchase, find something that is cruelty-free to replace the product. I used to LOVE the Benefit under eye concealer, best I had ever used, however after emailing Benefit personally and asking about their stance on animal testing, I decided to find something to replace it. I ended up finding the Kryolan under eye corrector and I fell in love with it. Sometimes you end up actually finding a product that's even better in quality, and totally guilt-free. Win-Win. Good luck with your search!!

Sep 09 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
TheMakeupMan
Posts: 3,755
Los Angeles, California, US


TheMakeupMan wrote:
Ill just say I do what I can where I can
I have 2 dogs and a cat 2 lizards and 3 puffer fish
And I don't plan on eating them anytime soon .......

Edit added :  but I also have steaks in the refrigerator and lunch meat
Wear leather
Have an iPhone
And have sable and squirrel and skunk brushes
And still consider myself an animal lover ......
No one has ever asked me my stance on animal testing or if I eat meat prior to a job ...... No one ever went ewwww or was offended when I used a product or brush that had animal involvement

I think you have to do what you think is right , pick and choose your battles wisely
Some things I'm willing to forgo others I'm not

Just being honest and please feel free to judge me from your better than , moral mountain top

Mary.  As usual I salute your candor and honesty and knowledge

Sep 10 13 07:56 am  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


TheMakeupMan wrote:
Edit added :  but I also have steaks in the refrigerator and lunch meat
Wear leather
Have an iPhone
And have sable and squirrel and skunk brushes
And still consider myself an animal lover ......
No one has ever asked me my stance on animal testing or if I eat meat prior to a job ...... No one ever went ewwww or was offended when I used a product or brush that had animal involvement

I think you have to do what you think is right , pick and choose your battles wisely
Some things I'm willing to forgo others I'm not

Just being honest and please feel free to judge me from your better than , moral mountain top

Mary.  As usual I salute your candor and honesty and knowledge

I love you but you know that....    I have a lot of respect for people that make true sacrifices for what they believe in (even if I disagree with their stance) Protesting, forgoing certain cosmetics and foods, putting bumper stickers on your car......in my point of view, are just too easy .... show me someone, just one animal rights advocate who believes in their cause enough to put their own happiness and health on the line for what they believe... I haven't met this person yet but hope one day I will...it would be an honor.

Sep 10 13 10:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Capitol City Boudoir
Posts: 750
Sacramento, California, US


Not sure what all the fuss is about.  I have my cats tested twice a year and so far the vet has given them a clean bill of health.
Sep 10 13 10:19 pm  Link  Quote 
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Makeup Artist
Mary
Posts: 7,157
Coronado, California, US


TheMakeupMan wrote:
Ill just say I do what I can where I can
I have 2 dogs and a cat 2 lizards and 3 puffer fish
And I don't plan on eating them anytime soon .......

LOL!     My Maltese Lilly just got all bent because in error I picked up Chicken flavored treats and not the Filet Mignon treats...God forbid I bring home chicken flavored in error!  I paid for that error and will NEVER repeat it.

  My Lilly has never seen a kennel or a cage, she decides where to sleep, when to sleep and what's she'll eat...she requires a massage at least 3 times a week and she doesn't like going out to the public bath and so a Mobil groomer comes to the house, in fact the groomer will be here tomorrow at 9:30am... The mobile groomer has informed me that Lilly prefers the lavender facials over any other.... WHO KNEW?....   Lilly will not be eaten anytime soon.

Sep 10 13 10:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5,331
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


I hope you so call animal lovers (one that do not agree on using animal for testing) don't ever get sick.  Any medication that you consume these days will go through thousands of trial (with animals) before making it to public.  Researchers are using animals for many type of testings...

loving animal is one thing but avoiding testing on animal is another thing.  Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking any medication or putting on anything onto my skin without know if it has been tested or not.

There are cases in china where products aren't being tested and they (not sure how they by passed the testing inspection) sell it directly consumers.  Guess what?  Some of those product cause seriously illness and sometimes even death to human.

If you are truly animal lover and do not believe in animal sacrifice then don't eat fish, chicken, pig, cow, shrimp etc.

  Keep in mind.  If a product aren't being tested, it is more likely causing damage to human than product that are being tested.  Every human skin is different.  Putting untested product onto human skin aren't the best way.
Sep 11 13 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Laura McDermott
Posts: 107
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Mary wrote:
I'm an animal lover, I have one at my side right now.  I don't have an easy answer....   

Keep in mind, most testing isn't just makeup..most animal testing is on pharmaceuticals ...

If you're going to be consistent here (I can't stand hypocrisy)  you need to get out of your chair, go to your medicine cabinet and toss it all out...Toss your Tylenol, Prozac, zanex, aspirin, birth control pills, Adderall and Viagra (some bunny had fun with that one)    Don't everyone get up at once smile

+1

Sep 12 13 06:16 pm  Link  Quote 
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