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How do you justify dumping a client?
Nov 07 12 03:26 pm Link I just wanted to offer my sympathy to you. I try to stay as far away from weddings as possible, from a photography standpoint as well. Even when the bride is initially happy, every decision becomes a committee hearing and if ONE friend or family member made a comment that was even remotely perceived as negative by the bride, her opinion will change at the drop of a hat. I would go about your business as normal. If she decides to terminate your services, it will be a huge relief. If not, try to avoid the inevitable Bridezilla noise. It isn't about you or your skills...it's a bride venting because she's stressed and being inundated from all sides. Don't take it personally and BREATHE  Oh, and as for another free trial...absolutely not. She may be your client but that doesn't give her the right to take advantage of your services simply because her mind changed...or somebody changed it. Stick to your guns and put the ball in her court (and that completes the cliche-fest for today). Nov 07 12 03:36 pm Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: If you don't want to/can turn this business engagement into a success, refund the money. Set your mind that you are going to win new business in order to cover the income shortfall (or that you are going to cut expenses to cover the short fall). Nov 07 12 03:37 pm Link No matter what business you are in, there are always going to be clients/customers that you would love to get rid of. Everyone from appliance repairmen to hairdressers to health care professionals has the same problem once in a while. You have to approach each situation individually and determine whether it is worth it to put up with their rude behavior in order to receive the amount of your fees for the services. Sometimes it is better just to cut the ties and give them a polite refund. Even doctors sometimes tell rude and demanding patients they will no longer accept them and that they need to find another source for their health care. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. One thing to consider, is that word of mouth can hurt your reputation. A customer who had a bad experience is likely to spread the word around to a couple hundred people and with today's social media, it could go a lot further than that. But many of those who hear it will consider the source and realize that the person is impossible to get along with. You would be better off to cut the ties very politely and decline to work with them, because that looks better than having the client complain about being unhappy with your work. Brides/weddings have the reputation among everyone who provides services to them such as photographers, makeup artists, caterers, dress stores, florists, and so on as being absolutely the worst customers to deal with. This is why I do not shoot weddings, I do not need the aggravation. Nov 07 12 03:38 pm Link Everyone will probably say to "have business sense/suck it up/deal with it/do it for reputation" etc. I don't believe in that, if you feel she is rude beyond your threshold, dump her. Clients pay for a service, not for a doormat for them to abuse. Will she rage and tell her close people that you are all kinds of bad? Very likely, but that could happen even if you appease her. Some people ultimately work for money, nothing else. If you are like that then do whathever she says, as that guarantees income for december as well as the highest chance of good word of mouth. To me, being respected and being happy with my work is more important, so I would can her. Nov 07 12 03:41 pm Link Nov 07 12 03:49 pm Link As odd as it may seem, consider adding an acceptance clause to your contract that after you finish your application and the client approves, she simply initials on her way out. Sometimes it has nothing to do with you but the way a photographer lite a scene that made things unflattering. AND you should not be liable for that. Talk to her and explain that she said she liked it; why the change? Advise her you are NOT willing to give her another FREE trial since she indicated she was pleased but you will offer a small discount. IF you decide to give her a FREE one, her personality type sounds like the type that will take a mile when an inch was offered. I understand you need the money but if it's like that NOW, what will it be like later? AND guess what.... there are NO do overs for her wedding day. Expect a headache. I would suggest you revise your contract so she has to sign-off. It seems over the top but people are getting very sue-happy these days. Especially with weddings. I have a photography client that said she was pleased and a month later came back saying she thinks there is a specular highlight under one of her eyes on one of the images. #ContractNowRevised Nov 07 12 03:52 pm Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: People are rude because they feel less than in some way. Instead of working to overcome their lack of confidence they fight it with rudeness. At this point in their evolution they are probably unaware they are poisoning the atmosphere around them. In many ways they are like little children. Nov 07 12 04:28 pm Link Very good advice NJ. This anecdote made me laugh: njsheadshotz wrote: If she sues, ounter sue her for perspiring and ruining the marketability of that image. Nov 07 12 04:32 pm Link Is money worth the stress of going through with the wedding? My advice is to reimburse her for the retainer (not the trial) and send her on her way. The earlier, the better, since she will still need to find another mua. When you dump her, keep it short and sweet. This is a win-win situation: You keep your sanity and hopefully she realizes loses when she doesn't treat people with respect. Nov 07 12 05:12 pm Link Toto Photo wrote: Most of the time I would agree with this, however I worked in the wedding industry for quite awhile, and I can tell you nothing can turn an otherwise sweet and kind person into a giant c-word faster than a wedding, and anything going wrong in one making EVERYTHING wrong. There is a chance that she in fact loves the photos, but because the caterer messed something up, everything is under a microscope. Nov 07 12 05:15 pm Link You only have two choices. You suck it up and deal with it because you want the money or you tell her to get lost and give her a refund. You're the only one that knows if the money is worth the aggravation. Consider the possibility that if she is complaining now she will complain about the final product as well no matter how good it is. What will you do if she doesn't like the final images and suddenly tells you she wants all her money back. Nov 07 12 05:18 pm Link what are the odds that she has another different MUA in mind that is undercutting your prices and just wants and excuse? I agree with above posts. not worth the headache dealing with this. Nov 07 12 05:26 pm Link Have you seen the photos, and is this the photographer she will be using on the day? Maybe they have been badly shot and lit, and not the make up it's self. I would ask to have a look at the photos and take it from there maybe you can both try to work something out. I would also ask her what changes she thought might be needed . Nov 07 12 06:31 pm Link I can't imagine the $$$ being worth dealing with an F'n bridezilla. Nov 07 12 06:36 pm Link Every so often you will run into rude people. They are not clients. they are just rude people. If you need the money badly enough, you'll just have to suck it up. BUT.. It's been my experience that a lousy client never improves and nornaly they just get worse. In the end they make your life hell and demand their money back.. It's my suspicion that such "clients" complain ONLY to guilt people into giving them services for free. A good client appreciates your services. They see value in it and are willing to pay fairly for those services. They also will refer you to other potential cleints. Clients, such as the one you describe are parasites that have no intent of ever using your services again nor do they ever say anything positive about your work or get you new clients. You may say to them, "I'm sorry but you're not happy with my work. It's an important day for you and it's important that you are very comfortable with your makeup that day of all days. I suggest you find someone else to work with and hand them back their retainer.. I can almost guarantee you, from what you've said, they will find all sorts of things to bitch about and want a full refund. You'll likely end up doing all the work and still not have anything to show for it. Might as well head them off, before they make your life worse.. Nov 07 12 06:54 pm Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: If you want to ruin your reputation as a wedding photographer, dumping her a month before her wedding is the way to do it. Nov 07 12 07:18 pm Link Consider this your warning, it will only get worse if you keep her Nov 07 12 07:23 pm Link KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote: This sounds like the perfect thing to say and the perfect way to handle it. Nov 07 12 07:27 pm Link Ruben Sanchez wrote: This is a makeup artist not a photographer. Nov 07 12 07:28 pm Link You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away and know when to run. Nov 07 12 07:29 pm Link Simply tell her that her behavior toward you is "unacceptable" and that you are not willing to permit her behavior. Let her know that you value the engagement (the job), but her behavior toward you must change. Easy as that. I had to do this with a client about 6 months ago - before that he was aggressive and bullying. All that changed pretty quickly and he's still a high revenue generating client. Nov 07 12 07:35 pm Link Maybe print out a personalised T & C form that you email to customers prior to trials/weddings and have them sign and forward to you if happy, then you can proceed knowing your ass is covered AND they signed. Maybe add that if they need a second trial they will still need to pay a discounted fee and also a cooling off period in terms of the deposit..meaning they only have a certain amount of time after the trial to change their minds about the booking and if they go past that then they forfeit their deposit. This stated in a t & c lets them know in advance so you arent put in this position. Just my 2cents. Nov 07 12 07:47 pm Link As a business person you have a responsibility to yourself to at least try to salvage the situation. Find out what really went wrong. Ask to see the pictures and have her explain what she doesn't like as you don't want to make the same mistake twice. This will allow you to find out if the images are really bad, or if she is being unreasonable, or the photographer made an error, etc. Once you have this information you can decide how to handle it. I agree that bad relations can ruin the rest of the job. If you can correct it, then you become the hero and it is smooth sailing forward. You probably know a photographer that you have developed a relationship with, who can evaluate the images and let you know if it is a photographer problem or not. If you feel you cannot solve the problem, then I would release the client immediately so they can find another person to work with. You could weight giving back some or all of the retainer depending on how much you want to hassle with this client. You could also weigh the loss of job income to your out of pocket for another trial and see which you prefer. I would not do any of those things until you know what the real issue is. If she is unwilling to work with you to find this out, then dump her. Nov 07 12 07:47 pm Link I call BS on having to suck it up. Why should bad behavior be rewarded? If she is a bitch now, how on earth is she going to get better the day of? What is YOUR time worth to you? Or your reputation? Bow out gracefully as stated perfectly in above comment. Return the retainer and know that in the long run you saved money by protecting your reputation. I truly believe your reputation is not worth the risk she brings. Clearly she has no filter, nor respect for you and your work or she wouldn't treat you the way she is. Imagine her poor fiancé...oy! Absolutely no free trial. You don't get to suddenly have "buyers remorse" especially after saying she was pleased. She had enough info based on your site, port, etc... to make an informed decision. She had a trial, period thee end. No freebies after the first one. Your kit, time, car, travel, insurance, YOUR TALENT (the one you have worked so hard to hone)...all cost way too much in upkeep to be giving your talent away. Besides, can she walk into any store and demand the next item or service free b/c although she at first wanted it and now she doesn't even though it's already used? No. IMO-The only people she gets away with this with, is the people who accept it. Therefor, perhaps they deserve the hell they saw coming right at them with plenty of warning. Nov 07 12 09:40 pm Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: 1. you need the money Nov 07 12 11:20 pm Link Nov 08 12 09:53 am Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Well said. Took the words right out of my mouth. Nov 08 12 10:02 am Link It sounds like this client doesn't understand the conditions of your contract ...I have to admit, I'm a little confused also. I feel that I have to remind everyone - working as a professional makeup artist is a REAL business. And every successful business MUST have very clear and concise terms and conditions. I provide rate sheets that quote pricing AND include a list of requirements, conditions and stipulations for each type of booking. When my services are requested, a rate sheet is forwarded to the client. If the client wishes to move forward, a customized Deal Memo or Contract is created that fully explains rates, payment terms, project details, conditions and penalties. This document is either accepted or negotiated and must be signed before I confirm the booking. BTW - retainers are not refundable in my business. My rate sheet and every one of my deal memos or contracts state that clearly. BTW - this bride sounds like she's trying to scam you for another free makeup. Don't do it. Request to see the photographs she is referencing and advise her that if the fault is indeed yours (I highly doubt it), you will adjust the application to avoid this problem on the day of the wedding. If she refuses, tell her she has every right to cancel, but will be charged the retainer for cancellation, as stated in your contract. She cannot harm your reputation if you play by the rules. Good luck.  Nov 08 12 03:34 pm Link you do charge for trials correct? you should... and the second trial should cost at least as much as the first... So I'm not sure what the problem is? It looks like more money to me. If you don't charge for trials, I have no advice for you really....because I can't imagine someone working free... Nov 08 12 08:17 pm Link
Post hidden on Nov 09, 2012 12:20 am
Reason: other Comments: spam is evil Nov 08 12 11:06 pm Link Keep her as a client - Peter Nov 09 12 10:20 pm Link What did she not like about the pictures? Are you sure it was a result of the make up and not the retouch? Pains in the butts usually remain so the entire time you work with them. My approach has been to be honest. Tell them that they are being a pain and that you simply chose not to work with people who act like that. Would they like an opportunity to start over or would they like to find someone else. That usually weeds out the ones Iwouldnt want to work with anyway. Nov 09 12 10:36 pm Link I know it stinks to deal with cranky customers, sorry:( But, just remember that "the customer is always right" thing. If you make her happy, hopefully she will book you for other things and tell her friends. If you just cant take her attitude- refund her money and tell her you are having a hard time with the difference in your personalities. From there- maybe make up a contract stating the set cost for second trials so you dont have to worry about it again. Nov 10 12 12:36 am Link Nov 10 12 05:02 pm Link Well . . . to be fair, if you don't do a good job, she will need to find someone else for her date, so she wants to find that out right away. I think that is reasonable. I would suggest doing it in the morning in case she is just looking for a free make up for a night out. Nov 10 12 05:28 pm Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: So, you asked for advice and basically took none of it ...even though some came from senior artists with a wealth of experience in these type of situations. Nov 11 12 10:20 am Link Aleksandra Ambrozy wrote: I like to be nice, however I wouldn't stand for a client treating me like "the help". Based on this brides history leading up to yesterday I would've told her the appointment date is what it is... any additional whiney, immature or disrespectful utterances from the bride and I would've terminated business with her on the spot (forever), refunded any refundable monies and felt a lot better that she was out of my hair. Nov 11 12 11:31 am Link MADE NYC wrote: On the mark. Nov 11 12 11:34 am Link MADE NYC wrote: correct again. Nov 11 12 11:34 am Link |
