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make up for free
Hi everyone, I just wanted to inform myself on how common it is in other countries for make-up artists to work for free ? I live in Belgium myself, and am getting a little bit frustrated at times that so many photographers and models are looking for free make-up (tfp or tfcd..). Even if you are doing photography or modelling just as a hobby, can you expect make-up artists doing the same ? Is this very common in your countries ? ciao ciaooo Anneke Jan 13 13 08:04 am Link They aren't looking for make-up for free. It's in trade. Services for services. Jan 13 13 08:15 am Link I don't know any who work for free, tons who work for trade with me but never free... Jan 13 13 08:21 am Link With for free, I meant TFP, TFCD etc... for me that is working for no money so for free. Jan 13 13 08:44 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: What you are working for are prints/cd of the shoot that shows your work. That is not working for free. The photographers work is just as valuable as the MUA's. As is everyone elses involved. Jan 13 13 08:59 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: If you perform a trade shoot and you're describe that as "giving images for free" you're saying that the services of others involved have no value. Jan 13 13 09:04 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Yes. Why would hobbyist makeup artists be different from hobbyist photographers and models? Jan 13 13 09:07 am Link I am a make-up artist myself. Doing make-up is hardly just a hobby... as photography is for most... we didnt take courses to keep it as a hobby, that's what I meant. But I guess it common all over the world then... ok. Jan 13 13 09:12 am Link Receiving a car... what a comparison... that is a paid job for me, because that car is worth lots of money... the pictures are not worth that much ! lol Jan 13 13 09:14 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: You seem to have a lot of trouble stepping outside of your own views and seeing it from any other perspective. Jan 13 13 09:16 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Well there you have it. And therein lies your problem. Whose fault is it that the images are worthless? Jan 13 13 09:17 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: I know many professional makeup artists who have never taken a makeup course in their lives, and others who are doing it as nothing other than a hobby. It sounds like you're saying that MUAs are somehow always "professional" and others are merely doing this for a lark, and honestly that sounds both arrogant and very strange. Makeup artists don't have a monopoly on formal training. Jan 13 13 09:24 am Link When I started I did those free jobs lots.. just like all starting make-up artists do... they need pictures for their portfolios, that's the only reason why most of them do that. So photographers that find it too expensive will turn to the starting artists over and over again... it makes me feel like the old wife being exchanged for the younger ones. LOL I don't think it is right... it is using people because you can't afford your hobby or profession (whatever). No one will ever change my mind there, you are right...sorry. No one goes out to work for free, even all of you. Jan 13 13 09:31 am Link I rather do the make-up myself then... before I start begging people to work for free for me.. if I cannot afford... and so I do both the photography plus the make-up if needed. Jan 13 13 09:32 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: We're beating a dead horse that's been killed over and over like a gazillion times. Jan 13 13 09:38 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Then you are looking at it all wrong. Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: In that case you are living in cloud cuckoo land. I 'm always interested in collaborations with models, photographers,wardrobe stylists and fashion designers By "collaboration", do you mean you're willing to pay everybody in cash? If not, then you're being a little hypocritical I think. Jan 13 13 09:38 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Then that's the solution for you but you can't expect the rest of the world to follow. Jan 13 13 09:53 am Link Your whole rant doesn't make sense. You don't want others to do the exact same thing you did. Jan 13 13 10:05 am Link Free. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." ~Inigo Montoya Jan 13 13 12:15 pm Link -B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote: Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Then you are looking at it all wrong. Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: In that case you are living in cloud cuckoo land. +1000000000 Jan 13 13 12:31 pm Link I'm picking up a tone from the OP that leaves me feeling confused, slightly annoyed and ultimately sorry for her. Clearly she has a healthy image of her work and thinks it's da bomb and has no need for testing (because she's seemingly done it ALL) or simply just growing in knowledge by working on as many faces as possible. Not only do I find value in working on as many faces as possible to grow in my artistry (always such a unique canvas-how can you not see this?) but also to REALLY take in and learn the human form. Your missing the bigger picture: opportunities to grow as an artist and an individual. Plus meeting fabulous people you would otherwise miss out on! Everyone, no matter the "caliber" of the artist, has room to grow and improve. I've learned lessons (good and bad) from every single TFP I have worked. TFP is NOT free. You are working as a team to bring together something beautiful. When you choose the right partners you get final shots that not only bolster your book but also serve as wonderful reminders of where you have been and where you want to be. I actually always feel for the photographers. IMO they have the heavier work load with : set up, shooting (which requires knowledge and emotional energy), breakdown especially if on location, then they get to choose, edit, retouch and Dropbox them them all to everyone involved. Based on the images I've seen, I think TFP may be exactly what is in order. I say open your mind to these possibilities and watch magic happen as these "free" shots will get you the better paying jobs through better images in your book. Jan 13 13 12:56 pm Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: I'm surprised to hear that coming from someone who, according to your profile and avatar, is a photographer herself. Jan 13 13 02:33 pm Link You might want to post from your makeup artist account in the critique section to get some helpful feedback on choosing the best images for your collateral. It might also help you in identifying what work is valuable to you on trade and which work isn't. Jan 13 13 03:27 pm Link Using myself as an example.... I'll only TFP if the Portfolios of the Photographer, Makeup, Hair, Wardrobe and Model gives me reason to believe that the project will ADD to my book. So, part of being an Artist is being able to take a critical eye to our own work and be able to realistically asses where we stand in the food chain. Jan 13 13 04:43 pm Link "the pictures are not worth that much ! lol" Good luck finding anyone that will work with you now. What a bad attitude! So basicallly you're saying the photographers work is crap and you'd rather have the money than photos? Whats the point of doing the makeup for a photoshoot and not wanting the photos? Because according to you, they're not worth it. Bah! Bad attitude! Jan 13 13 11:41 pm Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: All of my MUAs work trade unless a client has hired us both. However, I don't consider trade working for free. I would never ask someone to do something that I didn't feel was mutually beneficial. Jan 13 13 11:54 pm Link You want to make money doing MU.. Get into bridal/event makeup. Doing makeup for models is profitable only in select areas really.. I never made much money working with models. select photographers/models know its worth it and paid. My money came from bridal and events along with some commercial jobs. The commercial jobs came from them finding my website advertising bridal MU. I also got referral work. As others have said trade is bartering, its not free. Cash does not have to exchange hands. You exchanged time/talent instead. They got MU you got photos. Never use the word free ever. If you work a job for a charity or the like say you are donating your service, not Im giving free makeup work. Nothing in life is free, you always pay some where, some how.. I never TF for MU anymore as I can just shoot my own work but I do trade with models for shoots still here and there. Jan 14 13 10:08 am Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: trade but if the mua doesnt get any pics they have worked for free Jan 14 13 10:29 am Link Your very poor at some corner. Pictures are a lot of work - for everybody who is involved and especially the time afterward, when the photographer is doing the retouching and finish. If u want do get into the money thing: do (as said before) bridal and event make up AND do the privat clients (for expl family pics, working sheets, companys when the photographer needs to get the team pictured, and so on). Jan 15 13 01:42 pm Link Anthony J Deffina wrote: This. Unless you consider the photos worthless, in which case, you should have checked their port, haha Jan 15 13 02:00 pm Link Ann Wuyten Photography wrote: Respectfully, what did you expect? Jan 15 13 02:38 pm Link I am really confused by this ENTIRE THREAD lol. Jan 15 13 03:20 pm Link |
