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Warning for models working in Germany!
Hi, sorry to post something a bit miserable, but in October '12 I was contacted by a bondage photographer in the Stuttgart area who wanted to book me for a shoot. Because I was booked up till the end of the year, he said he'd book me for a week in Feb '13 instead. Then he asked for a two week booking. I was a bit suspicious because 2 weeks with a model you've not worked with before seems a bit risky to me, but I was happy to have the booking nevertheless. He asked for a lot of complicated measurements from me for custom made pieces, which took a while to do. He also asked for a scan of my passport so he could book the flights. I knew he wouldn't need that for a simple thing like booking a flight, but assumed he wanted the reassurance that I really was who I said I was etc. At Christmas I asked him if he'd give me my flight details so I could confirm other bookings for the days before and after our shoot. I also asked him to confirm his agreement with my fee and the levels we were working to (which we'd already discussed, but I wanted to make sure he was clear since it was a long, expensive booking for him). I had to send the message twice before getting a reply. When he replied, he said that actually the rate I'd quoted in pounds was actually in Euros (I had the email confirming my fee was in pounds) and that we were in fact working to FAR higher levels that we'd originally negotiated. I also had the mail confirming the fact that we were working to figure nude (not anal toys!!!) so I wrote back quoting these original emails. At this point I kind of hoped he'd cancel the shoot because I'd started to have a bad feeling about the whole thing. But in his reply to my email he basically said 'oh, ok, that's fine, I'll pay you your original rate and we'll work to figure nude after all'. I replied that perhaps it was better to shorten the booking to one week instead of two since he wouldn't be shooting to the levels he'd hoped and that it would be more expensive than he'd expected. He agreed, and I was very relieved - firstly because I was feeling increasingly uncomfortable about spending an extended period of time with him, and secondly because he felt like a cancellation waiting to happen, and I didn't want a 2 week gap in my diary! After a bit more prompting, he forwarded me the confirmation email from the airline he'd booked me onto. So I relaxed a bit. Then, in mid January, I got a mail from the airline. I translated it from German and discovered it said that the photographer's bankcard had been declined, and since they'd contacted him and he hadn't sent alternative payment, they were cancelling the booking. I'm not sure why I got the mail, I assume he'd given my email address as well as his own so they could update me with any delays on the day. I contacted him immediately to ask what was going on. He didn't reply. I contacted him several more times and again got nothing back. Eventually I decided to take other bookings for the time I'd been keeping free for him, so everything worked out ok for me. But it's been an awful waste of my time, and could have potentially proved extremely expensive for me if I hadn't got notification from the airline in time to get other shoots in my diary. I'd rather no one else goes through the same drama with him. I don't want to do a public 'name and shame' thing just in case (by some crazy chance!) he's died, gone into a coma or similar. But if you're a model reading this and have been contacted by a bondage photographer in Stuttgart going by the name of Ralph, please contact me and I'll try to confirm whether he's the same person or not. I've not found him on here but he may have another name I'm not aware of, but I can give you his email address etc. All the best, stay safe everyone! Feb 20 13 02:21 am Link Joceline wrote: Hey Joceline, hope you're well. Feb 20 13 03:00 am Link Sorry to hear about your bad experience :-( Feb 20 13 03:15 am Link Two week of anal toys, come on, I mean is that really so bad? (sorry - joking - forgive? :-)) Feb 20 13 03:30 am Link Welcome to MM !!..  as you gain more experience in llamaing and business.. you won't be so easily duped into these things.. red flags should have went off from the beginning..  Feb 20 13 03:43 am Link Stranger things have happened. It sounds like he may have gotten what he came for tho... a scan of your passport. Your references could have verified who you were and that you were real, rather than sending detailed personal information to a total stranger via the net. Feb 20 13 03:52 am Link Joceline wrote: You should never give that out. You have been scammed and should inform the passport office immediately that this is a possible case of identity theft. This is a very serious matter and could get you into very deep trouble. You should not have given him this and should have cut off all contact at that point. Feb 20 13 04:09 am Link DP Feb 20 13 04:11 am Link WMcK wrote: This!!! Feb 20 13 04:51 am Link I think for booking international flights he would need all the info from the passport, and a scan would just insure that he didn't get any of the numbers wrong etc. I don't think there is much evil that one can do with a simple scan of a passport. At least in the USA, passport often has less personal information than a driver's license does (for example, no home address is listed in a passport). It's too bad it didn't work out for you (or him) but sometimes it is easy if you really want something to 'see' another party agreeing to those things if they didn't. For example, if he really wanted a lower budget and the whole anal toys thing, easy to see how in his mind things might become conflated. Maybe the guy is doing something devious. Or maybe he just wasn't careful about details and let himself get carried away. Feb 20 13 05:03 am Link First off, in "Defense of all German or Germany based photographers," I have to say there is a bit of BS in this models reasoning. {Remember I am not German but an American that lives and works in Germany and I know better!!} And, frankly I feel somehow insulted that the model although she lives in England can't seem to follow up on two things. England like other countries next to Germany is 45 minutes away flight wise.By train via the tunnel, Germany/England are neighboring countries, and its about 2-3 hours depending on the days you take it. The drive is simple. - Secondly, her comments about models shooting in Germany shouldn't be allowed. Its as if she is writing - {that} all Germany photographers are "Flakes." Every photographer that is someone, is licensed in Germany, has sometime or another gone to the local "Geminde," or city hall and gets a tax number/license and so on. A young lady or female model, that travels from NY to say DC does some due-diligence, and you can bet she checked that a photographer {he/she} is some sort of a professional. She obviously hasn't done her work here. Every model that goes even across town should have some sort of a reference. {phone numbers, websites/email addresses etc., right}- Otherwise, you open the door for stupid things to happen. She sounds very bitter ? Grow up and quit whining. Lastly, all I can say is stick with what you have planned to shoot. If there is some sort of misunderstanding remember, most Germans can speak fluent English. If not why not? Its required in mid schools. If they don't, then its a red flag... b/c either that is one lie that leads to others or someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Remember ladies one word, "DUE DILIGENCE" !! And keep your wool on your sweater! Feb 20 13 05:34 am Link Yeah the title is a little offensive to photographers in Germany, and the last bit of the story. And there were red flags almost immediately and you said you felt concern so you should always follow your gut! Feb 20 13 05:45 am Link RachelReilly wrote: There would have to be something seriously wrong going on in your brain to find it so. Feb 20 13 06:23 am Link Nikki Magnusson wrote: What a laughable comment. Joceline is probably one of the busiest, most experienced and sought after models on the UK circuit. Her 3 posts are probably due to working rather than cruising the fora. Feb 20 13 06:35 am Link Even if the guy appears to understand English, if his native language is German, it is much easier for him to miss some nuances or for him to not be 100% accurate in what he says, or to think he said one thing (or meant to say one thing) but actually said something that came off a little different. Just because they teach English in schools in Germany doesn't mean all Germans speak English perfectly. The worse cases are where someone appears to understand quite well or to speak fluently but actually misses a lot. Can't say as I would want to go to Germany to spend two weeks with someone I knew nothing about other than his strong interest in bondage. Seems both sides had high expectations (big paycheck for the model, anal fetish fantasy photography for the photographer) so maybe unfortunately some details were missed. But it is much easier I think to chalk this up to confusion rather than to think either party meant the other ill. Feb 20 13 06:35 am Link JadeDRed wrote: +1 Feb 20 13 06:39 am Link I remember once going to Japan on a publisher's dime, for a week, to discuss the details of a book I had sold to them, the advance was substantial, but I did not realize that the airfare and hotel etc was going to be subtracted from the advance! This cut my take home by about 50%. I didn't complain, as I was more worried about future deals, and also realized there was no way to force them to cover the travel and I was very dependent on them while I was in Japan. Still I thought that what I did take home was worth it. But it was certainly a shock. But travel can certainly put someone in a very dependent/vulnerable position. Feb 20 13 06:42 am Link Ken Pegg wrote: Yep! Feb 20 13 08:46 am Link Joceline wrote: L Bass wrote: WMcK wrote: Photo Visions wrote: For the American readers in particular - you likely don't even realise that in some EU countries you are required to leave you passport with, for example, the front desk at your hotel. And it will stay with them at least for the first day [12 > 24 hours]. It is equally likely they are going to retain a copy to ensure that they get paid for your stay. Feb 20 13 10:13 am Link Joceline wrote: This is one of the places you messed up. You should have canceled the shoot. If you have a bad feeling, always go with your gut. Feb 20 13 10:24 am Link What kind of gig would require two weeks of residency in a foreign country? I mean, what would you be doing all that time? And they don't have nude models in Stuttgart? It's Germany for godsakes!  Feb 20 13 02:00 pm Link D-Fotograf wrote: I think you summed it up quite well! Feb 20 13 02:53 pm Link First, I feel very sorry for you and for this bad experience you made with a photographer from my country. Obviously this man got broke, that's why there was a delay in your communication and the cancellation of the flight. But on the other hand a "scan" of your passport sounds like a scammer who wants your personal information to do not so good things with it. A good chance he is more Nigerian than German. Honestly, where's your common sense? Who books a llama for two weeks? Usually a shoot abroad is done in two days. I booked two girls from the UK for a calendar shoot in switzerland and the thingy was done in one and a half day. Why did you gave out a scan of your passport? Nobody needs that for booking a flight in the EU. You need that to get a Visa. No Visas are needed in the EU. I never give out my passport except to the Police or other authorities. You agreed to work with a stranger without checking references to do a nude bondage shoot. If you agree to work with such people, you walk on darker paths of society. I tell all known girls to bring a chaperone to the place, especially when shooting with a stranger and this without exception. Idiots, weirdos and soziopaths are in any country, so common sense is always a good insurance. I worked with llamas from the UK and in the UK and from the US and in the US and other countries. I always loved the experience to work with people from another country. It's different. Please PM me the name of this man, so I can give out a warning to the girls in my area. Feb 20 13 03:23 pm Link I have followed the career of Joceline Brooke-Hamilton for at least the last eight years, not least because she is clearly one of the best and most experienced nude models anywhere in the world. She is clearly not a newbie and has taken the trouble to prepare a detailed cautionary post for the benefit of less experienced models. I think she should be congratulated. Feb 20 13 05:08 pm Link studio36uk wrote: Joceline wrote: L Bass wrote: WMcK wrote: For the American readers in particular - you likely don't even realise that in some EU countries you are required to leave you passport with, for example, the front desk at your hotel. And it will stay with them at least for the first day [12 > 24 hours]. It is equally likely they are going to retain a copy to ensure that they get paid for your stay. ^ All of that: in France the hotel keeps your passport for the duration of your stay. Feb 21 13 01:59 am Link Let me correct a misunderstanding. For bookings on both Easyjet and British Airways you DO need to have the passport details of each traveller on the booking. I fly every other week in Europe so I can attest to the accuracy of this. Feb 21 13 02:45 am Link Yan Tan Tethera wrote: Passport number maybe - not a scan of the whole bloody passport... Feb 21 13 03:50 am Link RKD Photographic wrote: Try to convert your virtual booking in to an on line check in and you'll see what I'm talking about. Of course If you do it at the airport you'll have your passport - but Easyjet charge big for that. Feb 21 13 01:46 pm Link I think this is more a case of someone wanting to spend two weeks inserting anal plugs into Joceline, rather than a genuine passport scam, which wouldn't have got very far, since presumably Joceline uses her passport. The bank card declination says to me, it was a sad, lonely person whose world was falling apart and he was fantasizing about shooting with models, rather than he was seriously planning any identity theft. Feb 21 13 03:56 pm Link Ken Pegg wrote: a 2 week shoot.. Feb 21 13 04:27 pm Link Ken Pegg wrote: Nikki Magnusson wrote: But you'd still be wrong, Mr. Pegg is correct. Feb 21 13 05:02 pm Link Rollo David Snook wrote: Best explanation yet. Why do I think so? Sounds like me. Feb 21 13 07:34 pm Link Nikki Magnusson wrote: I believe her intentions were genuine. regardless, scanning your passport is pretty common outside the US. Spend some time traveling outside the US and you'll understand. Anytime I have traveled to the UK, France, Italy, it has been scanned, copied and/or held by hotels, car rentals. Feb 21 13 07:56 pm Link B R E N N A N wrote: ^^^^^^^^ Feb 21 13 08:11 pm Link Yan Tan Tethera wrote: Smoke me you pillock Feb 22 13 05:30 am Link RKD Photographic wrote: Fail. Why would I make something like this up. It's possible that it's only from a UK booking but I doubt it. I'm flying to Sofia with the missus soon so I'll send you the screenshot. and I have three flights to Toulouse in the next five weeks. Feb 23 13 11:31 am Link The problem isn't that passport info was needed or not needed by the airline, it was that a third party she's never met before asked for a scan of her passport. At the most it's suspicious. At the least it's unnecessary and poorly executed. If the airline needed it to confirm the booking then he should have provided the OP with the booking link and she could have provided that information directly to the airline, and then he could complete the booking with his CC info. Personally, I don't think this was an identity theft scam either though. It seems like a lot of effort just to get that information...going through the back-and-forth communication, job description and subsequent explanations, airline booking, etc. It was probably nothing more than old-fashioned sex trafficking and he was expecting to recoup his expenses on the back end (pun intended). Feb 23 13 11:47 am Link aquarelle wrote: I don't know but the OP does provide her weekly rates in her bio so it's probably not out of the realm of possibility that she gets weekly bookings. Otherwise, why list it? Feb 23 13 11:52 am Link White Lace Studios wrote: no you are incorrectly reading what I said.. Feb 23 13 11:57 am Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: a pervert or sex trafficker was my gut feeling also.. Feb 23 13 11:58 am Link |
- I travel by air all the time between Dortmund, Gatwick and Almeida using Easyjet and Ryanair and in case you might have been right (in that things have changed since I travelled last November) I logged onto the website and filled in all the fields, just as I've done countless times before, only stopping short of hitting the final confirmation button. 
