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first12
Photographer
Virtual Studio
Posts: 5,605
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I prefer models with tattoos - and non-natural hair color is good too.
Mar 24 13 06:44 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,016
New York, New York, US


I think you've seen too many of the rant threads (which I admit make for more entertaining reading) and not enough of the serious threads.  I see that you have only a relatively small number of posts given how long you've been a member, so perhaps at least a part of the answer is to be more active in the threads yourself.  I've found that, for me at least, being more active leads to getting more out of them.  It's kind like a bank account -- the more you put in, the more you get out.

As to your observations, please allow me some responses:

No tattoos, no weird hair color,
--That depends on the nature of the shoot, as in all other physical or personal choices the model makes.  If the concept calls for tattoos or wierd hair color, the person with them is golden and the person without is pretty well useless.  If the concept calls for a very busty swimsuit type, the girl with the big boobs is in but if the concept calls for youthful innocence, the girl with the A-cups wins.  You win some, you lose some but you win more if you go after the jobs that you fit.

no boyfriends
--By all means have a boyfriend, or for that matter have a girlfriend or neither.  Whatever is your preference. Just don't bring them to work with you.  You wouldn't bring your pastor or your psychiatrist or your gynocologist along to a shoot would you?  Of course not.  It's good to have them but not good to have them coming along to the shoot with you.  They have no business being there, would add nothing to the shoot, and might well ruin the shoot.  The same is true for your boyfriend.

if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend
--Unfortunately, this is quite true--sometimes.  But the reality is that unless you're a genuine top model or entertainer you have no need of a manager.  A manager is someone you hire to keep your modeling business running much like you hire a mechanic to keep your car running.  If you don't have a car, or if you are able to make the simple adjustments necessary to keep it going, you don't need a mechanic.  Same for managers.  Most models that say they have managers really mean that they are afraid to grow up and take command of their own lives.  They think that the "manager" obviates the need to to do so.

You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM?
--It's a valid question.  Some of the reasons I've heard have been, "I'm non-exclusive."  "My agent only does fashion (or commercial or whatever)"  "I like to keep up with old friends."  "It's a good place to try out things that aren't in my usual bag of tricks.", etc.  So, why are you on MM?

Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.
--That's pretty much what the job is, but if you can do all that and also be helpful, charming, fun, intelligent and a team player, you'll get a lot more shoots.  The thing to remember is that there can only be one boss on a job, whether it's shooting a fashion spread or digging a ditch, and on a photoshoot that boss is the photographer.  As long as you can keep that fact clear in your own mind, you will usually be given many opportunities to be helpful, charming, fun, etc. as well.

Hope that helps.
Mar 24 13 06:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,015
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Stepping out of this thread now. I've gotten my answers and I'm sure more will come in time. Thanks for you cooperation, photographers.
Mar 24 13 06:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Schlake wrote:

As far as I can tell the photographers who stalk the forums are almost entirely misogynists.  They treat women like objects, and expect the women to act accordingly.  The biggest telling sign is the infamous "next".  So I think your observations are pretty correct.  I don't see why models put up with their behavior.

You're probably right about some people on here being guilty of misogyny and I've seen a few myself, but I don't really like to point that stuff out too often.  At the end if the day, no two photographers are the same.  Personally, I see art and photography as a fun creative process that doesn't need to be bogged down by too many formalities.  It should be fun for the photographer and model, but I guess it just doesn't always work out that way.  That's why experienced models have their "go to" photographers that they go back to if they want a reliable and comfortable shoot.  It's also a big mistake to think you are a hot shot photographer and the models are mere employees.  Without a subject to shoot, you don't have jack unless you just want to take pictures of yourself all day.

Mar 24 13 07:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Amul La La
Posts: 804
Plymouth, England, United Kingdom


Erlinda wrote:
MM is not the "industry" The quicker you learn that the better wink

Erlinda is catergorically correct. But I will add.

It's to be used solely as a business tool for creating new opportunities with other creatives, or along side your business to help widen your creative circle.

Well that's my PO, in the productive/productivity sense.

wink

Mar 24 13 07:18 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,435
Muncie, Indiana, US


Ignore the rants. Forums show the good, the bad, and the ugly. The internet is a lot like the real world. You have immature, petty people who crave drama and just want to stir things up.
Mar 24 13 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,015
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Isis22 wrote:
Ignore the rants. Forums show the good, the bad, and the ugly. The internet is a lot like the real world. You have immature, petty people who crave drama and just want to stir things up.

Starting to notice

Mar 24 13 09:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Gerhart
Posts: 736
San Antonio, Texas, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Welcome to MM.

The challenge with tattoos are two fold. First tattoos are copyrighted art and it is impossible to shoot a model with tattoos for publication without first obtaining a copyright release from the artist who designed the tattoo flash. Secondly many times it is not about the model but more about the product such a handbag for instance. In this case nothing should distract the viewer from seeing the product that is being presented. A tattoo or strange hair color could turn away some potential buyers of the product.

Boyfriends do not do well on a shoot period end of story. They get freaky when a model becomes comfortable enough with the photographer to start really modeling.

Agency models can be a blessing or a disaster depending upon the agency. The challenge is that in order to use an agency model prior arrangements have to be made with the agency. Some times things don't work out. For example the agency may demand to have all photographs and may only allow the photographer to use images that the agency approves. The blessing in using an agency model is the photographer gets to use seasoned talent.

Managers suck. They know very little about modeling or photography and are just in it for their share of the profits. So I guess you could say a manager is a pimp in strange sort of way. But I would venture to say that pimps might treat their talent a tad better...

As for me. I don't care who I work with. All I ask is that the model brings their  A Game and do the best possible on the day of the shoot. However if a manager, boyfriend, escort, or whatever interferes in the shoot in any form or fashion then we are done right then and there.

Hope this helps to clear the air some.

Mar 24 13 09:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Schlake wrote:
And my point is proven with an example.

The only thing you've proven is that you're willing to put up with much more from an attractive female than you would from an employee or vendor at a corporate job.

Is that something you really want to advertise? And do you really want to disparage those who don't?

Mar 24 13 10:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,301
Salem, Oregon, US


for my part i prefer a model who will be an active participant in the shoot. it's in our mutual best interest for the shots to turn out well. i shoot live into a TV to help facilitate collaboration.

i allow on-set escorts so that's a non-issue for me.

as long as i know about the tattoos and weird hair color in advance then it's my choice to work with that person. generally for nudes i prefer natural but that's the exception around here so i just go with the flow.
Mar 24 13 10:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moonlight Studio
Posts: 41
Hot Springs, Arkansas, US


Do not get worried over things so much. I personally have no issues or concerns about boyfriends and such with models. Matter of fact when we discussed our shoot I asked if you wanted my wife to be present since the shoot was to be in a roman bed setting we have at home instead of in studio.

Seldom will everyone agree and people have their own temperments, likes, dislikes and methods.

I model for three different art class groups. One instructor runs two of them and is very strict on the models, but fair, and being on the other end I know some frustrations with poses etc so I tolerate it with a smile and a yes maam... the other class is more laid back and really model friendly.

You just be careful and select the deal that is best for you and do not take everything you read on public forum to heart dear...

Loads of luck

Moon
Mar 24 13 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


Baked goods. Homemade. I'll be very happy.
Mar 24 13 07:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,015
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Moonlight Studio wrote:
Do not get worried over things so much. I personally have no issues or concerns about boyfriends and such with models. Matter of fact when we discussed our shoot I asked if you wanted my wife to be present since the shoot was to be in a roman bed setting we have at home instead of in studio.

Seldom will everyone agree and people have their own temperments, likes, dislikes and methods.

I model for three different art class groups. One instructor runs two of them and is very strict on the models, but fair, and being on the other end I know some frustrations with poses etc so I tolerate it with a smile and a yes maam... the other class is more laid back and really model friendly.

You just be careful and select the deal that is best for you and do not take everything you read on public forum to heart dear...

Loads of luck

Moon

Thanks Moon

Mar 24 13 09:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,015
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Dark Shadows wrote:
Baked goods. Homemade. I'll be very happy.

I cook and bake. Homemade is always the best

Mar 24 13 09:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,348
Palm Beach, Florida, US


$$$$$$$$
Mar 24 13 10:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,442
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Schlake wrote:
As far as I can tell the photographers who stalk the forums are almost entirely misogynists.  They treat women like objects, and expect the women to act accordingly.  The biggest telling sign is the infamous "next".  So I think your observations are pretty correct.  I don't see why models put up with their behavior.

And there is not a bunch of misandry from a lot of the models who stalk the forums. Ohhh, he is going to rape me. molest, kill me, eat me(well maybe in a fun way). Men are there to provide me with everything I want, because I am pretty.

Both yours and my comment are full of it ...

Mar 24 13 11:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shutterbug5269
Posts: 16,084
West Winfield, New York, US


Things A llama Can Do To Make Me Happy

1.) Show up.

2.) Arrive on time, ready to work. (within reason)

3.) If for some reason you can't make it CALL ME as soon as you know, and be prepared to set up a date to reschedule.

'Nuff said.
Mar 27 13 08:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PANHEAD PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 1,626
San Francisco, California, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Model Mayhem is not "the industry" it's
Model "Mayhem"

Mar 27 13 08:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,527
Atlanta, Georgia, US


No photographer should care about a boyfriend.  Managers however are not part of the industry especially boyfriend managers.

There are very few people on MM actually involved in the real industry and you need to take others advice with a grain of salt.  In the past I would very much say that models were treated a bit like 2nd class citizens; don't talk, do you job and leave.  Its far less of that today, but a model should not be surprised if some long time and well know photographers still expect this.  There are a few famous photographers who still are that old school.

That being said, this is MM and Internet modeling; it has its own expectations totally unrelated to the professional modeling industry.
Mar 27 13 08:32 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Two Pears Studio
Posts: 3,322
Wilmington, Delaware, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Look again. That is a bit of a generalization.

I venture to say you see what fits your story.

Mar 27 13 10:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,675
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

There is only one question that I need answered. Is whatever is going on in your life going to affect the shoot? If the answer is "Yes" because of a boyfriend, escort, manager, kids, rain, sleet, snow or whatever, then I really don't want to waste my time trying to organize a shoot with the model.

There is one model I will not even try to re-schedule because she has a problem getting up before noon. She said so herself; that she pratically never gets up before noon. She promised to be on time, but ended up 3 hours late to a 10:00am call time. When she showed up, I sent her back home. I was able to complete the shoot with someone I was able to call on short notice at 11:00am and who showed up at 12:00am.

Mar 27 13 10:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


For want of better descriptions, Mainstream Industry and Internet Modelling, personally I treat as two separate industries. I think half the problems on MM could be resolved if they stopped treating MM as if it was Mainstream  modelling,  it's not.
Mar 28 13 12:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Well omp did have a thing called Shut Up and Model. So you may be on to something.

Mar 28 13 02:04 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Stormee
Posts: 2,463
San Antonio, Texas, US


Mar 28 13 02:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dario Western
Posts: 622
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Good Egg Productions wrote:

Only if they're acting as managers or insist on being escorts.  If a photographer cares if a model has a boyfriend, I'd have to assume that photographer is using his camera as an extension of his penis.

I've never had a problem with models having boyfriends present as escorts for photo-shoots.

Mar 29 13 03:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,015
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Well no one has to worry about me bringing my boyfriend. He has the attention span of a 2 year old hyped up on sugar.
Mar 29 13 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-Koa-
Posts: 5,250
Castaner, Puerto Rico, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Some photographers are Wankers.

For the most part, I don't get along with photographers simply because they are Wankers.

Ignore them and simply say, "Next"!

-Koa-
www.borikenwarrior.com
www.facebook.com/borikenwarriorstudiosmodels

Mar 29 13 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


If models didn't have boyfriends then all of us middle-aged overweight, balding photographers would be getting hit on at every shoot! yikes

Thank God for boyfriends, I say smile


Ash.
Mar 29 13 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Deliquesce-Flux
Posts: 40
Los Angeles, California, US


Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Sounds like you're just talking about a particular bunch of photographers, I have never come across these problems haha. I am a photographer, I have a lot of photography friends and industry connections and I have yet to stumble upon these issues.

Mar 29 13 09:47 pm  Link  Quote 
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