Tiffany Bond wrote:
Have you ever had a photo shoot with a more or less amateur photographer that used possibly one of the worst pictures of you in the entire reel to put on his/her public profile? I'm talking the lighting is bad, the angle is unflattering, the focus is off... just... nothing good could come of this photo.

Do you say anything? Is it rude? I wonder if photographers ever have the opposite problem. Then again, they usually hold the reins as far as what pictures they edit/keep and which ones they don't. So if they don't like a photo, they have control over getting rid of it.

Just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being overly-self-critical?

Well, I'm not a model, but I have dealt with a lot of models and looked at hundreds and hundreds more portfolios.  There is an old saying: "If only we could see ourselves as others see us".   

Your feelings about the referenced photo are obviously subjective.  Someone else might look at the photo and think it was lovely.  I have seen lots and lots of ports where models have posted terrible images of themselves in their portfolios and not infrequently have selected their worst image for their avatar. 

The point of all this is that why don't you either post the pic here in the forum or have a trusted friend look at it and see if the friend or the forum participants agree with your assessment.  Out of focus, poorly lit, poorly posed photographs are pretty commonly found here in ports.  Not my style, definitely, but some folks seem to like them.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to approach the photographer in a non-confrontational way and explain your discomfort with the photo he is displaying.  You might even suggest a photo off of the reel that you particularly do like.

Best of luck.

Marin Photography wrote:
If he paid you, let it be. You took the chance to work with this person and well you got his money.

If it was trade then you should have said something when you first saw it. If you neglected to then you left the ball in his court.

An unflattering photo in a photographer's port has no effect on you. It may not get that person who sees it to your profile but it doesn't mean you suck....It means he does for making a bad choice....

This very well could be the first time shes seeing it. We dont usually get to look through every single shot and approve it or delete it after a shoot, that would be ridiculous. We trust you guys to be able to determine good and bad shots...sometimes that trust turns out to be misplaced.


OP: You can say something if youd like. If you have no intentions of working with this guy again...no issue. If you would like to work with him again...be prepared not to if you think hes the type to throw a hissy fit.

Ultimately, there are going to be bad shots of you on the internet somewhere, no matter what. You could ask and he could refuse and youd still be stuck with it. Its easier to just accept and move on. Hopefully he'll do another shoot soon and replace it with something not of you.

Laura UnBound wrote:
This very well could be the first time shes seeing it. We dont usually get to look through every single shot and approve it or delete it after a shoot, that would be ridiculous. We trust you guys to be able to determine good and bad shots...sometimes that trust turns out to be misplaced.


OP: You can say something if youd like. If you have no intentions of working with this guy again...no issue. If you would like to work with him again...be prepared not to if you think hes the type to throw a hissy fit.

Ultimately, there are going to be bad shots of you on the internet somewhere, no matter what. You could ask and he could refuse and youd still be stuck with it. Its easier to just accept and move on. Hopefully he'll do another shoot soon and replace it with something not of you.

Ridiculous? Depends on who you work with doesn't it? What's ridiculous is people who shoot thousands of photos like a machine gun and praying for a good shot. I don't do that and I stop after each set and let the model choose what she likes. Most models don't have thousands of poses so I don't get why people do that!

When it's a trade shoot we both have a say.  If she disapproves she has a chance to say something. Also, what's ridiculous is not asking to see them. We aren't all that controlling crazy types hahaha...If I am paying I don't bother doing that so it doesn't matter.

I only shoot about 20 shots per look or less!

Laura UnBound wrote:
This very well could be the first time shes seeing it. We dont usually get to look through every single shot and approve it or delete it after a shoot, that would be ridiculous. We trust you guys to be able to determine good and bad shots...sometimes that trust turns out to be misplaced.

It was the first time I saw it. He showed me a small handful as we were taking them (most photographers do) but I didn't get to flip through the whole lot of them. I've had photographers take hundreds of shots in one session. I think trying to look through that many and actually take the time to assess them would be difficult.

I'm probably not going to say anything, because for all I know, it's just (as others have said) my taste preference versus his (and male vs female outlook) and it's not as bad as I think it is. I can only hope.

Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy, and one or two of the photos were actually something I could use. I don't want you to think he's atrocious. As a general rule though, most of the photos were shot at strange angles (strange in a bad way, not in an artful way) so I would say that shooting with him was a very mixed experience for me.

Expression Unlimited wrote:
Yes

And it sucks!

If you guys have a better one in the set that is similar you can always hint you'd prefer he use that instead ... but f you were paid you have no real say

Now I'm behind the camera and mentoring, I always give and encourage others to give the models power of veeto .., expecially TFCD but I can tell you
re  ''I wonder if photographers ever have the opposite problem''
YES!

Models  and clients consistently pick 'the worst in the reel' often if one is out of focus they love it being ''soft focus'' and if the shot is a dud with a bad background or shadow on the face of course they suddenly love their expression in it and see nothing else. Etc.

;-)

I guess that's what we get for showing everything.

But TFCD or a paying client they should get to see what was shot, I think. And get to choose the images they like. Good luck with your guy!

This is exactly why I shoot slow and take my time. I get to delete those soft focus ones! haha

Marin Photography wrote:
Ridiculous? Depends on who you work with doesn't it? What's ridiculous is people who shoot thousands of photos like a machine gun and praying for a good shot. I don't do that and I stop after each set and let the model choose what she likes. Most models don't have thousands of poses so I don't get why people do that!

When it's a trade shoot we both have a say.  If she disapproves she has a chance to say something. Also, what's ridiculous is not asking to see them. We aren't all that controlling crazy types hahaha...If I am paying I don't bother doing that so it doesn't matter.

I only shoot about 20 shots per look or less!

What's ridiculous is questioning (or putting down) the methods that other talented and successful photographers use to get their images.  I've shot with people who only got a few hundred images, and several who got 2000+. Amazing results can be achieved either way. A good image is a good image, and nobody cares how many frames it took to get there.

I've never sat down with a photographer and reviewed all the images from a shoot before I left.  I can't see that ever happening unless it was discussed and agreed upon in advance, and I suspect very few photographers would be willing to do it. I've never had anyone offer such a thing, and I consider many of the photographers I've worked with to be quite generous. In most situations, such a process would be time consuming, and not necessarily beneficial to either party.

To the OP: Yes, I've had the situation you described happen.  Ask nicely for him to take it down, or at the very least, not to credit you.  Don't question his taste, just let him know that you're not comfortable with how you look in the image, and you would be extremely appreciative if he was willing to consider choosing a different image to post.  The worst thing that could happen is that he'll say no, but it's definitely worth asking.

Philip from Scotland wrote:
I get this as a photographer.  The model wants to look beautiful, but that isn't always how I want to photograph her.

Oh, I definitely understand modeling not always being about "pretty" if anyone loves rawness in an image as far as image and expression goes, it's me. That's definitely not the issue. As someone who loves editing, photography, and modeling (and has delved a little into all three) I feel like I hopefully know what to look for. It's always hardest in your own images though.

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
How much did you pay him?

You can only really expect editorial control if you're the client and this is part of the contract. Otherwise, you takes your chances....

As others have said, you could try asking very nicely if he would mind using a different shot - but be prepared for a refusal and possibly a hissy fit too. We photographers can be a touchy lot!




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

See, and that's sort of why I'm holding my tongue. I feel like ultimately, it's art... and who am I to say what someone else's idea of art should be? If I were a photographer, and someone told me I had a terrible eye, I would be inwardly insulted. He has decent images in his port (which is why appearing to be in the weakest image in said portfolio might be offputting), and it was tradework, not paid. I keep trying to go back and look at it and change my mind about it or keep an open mind at least...

Paul Ferris  wrote:
A model will like pictures that show her features best.
A photographer will like photos that have good composition and lighting.
A MUA will like the photos where the make up looks good
A stylist will like the photo where the clothes are showcased well.

These are rarely all in the same photo.

Fact of life.

A good photographer will know this and select photos of all 4 categories (assuming it's a trade shoot)

Tina Sun wrote:
I think it's always different how you see yourself and how someone else sees you - but as a photographer i'd definitely want a model I worked with to let me know if they are unhappy with the work! So I dont' think it's rude at all, just let them know that you don't think it's flattering for XYZ reasons and if it was possible for them choose another shot which would be better for ABC reasons!

x

+1

Tiffany Bond wrote:
Just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being overly-self-critical?

Maybe a little of both

MelissaAnn  wrote:
What's ridiculous is questioning (or putting down) the methods that other talented and successful photographers use to get their images.  I've shot with people who only got a few hundred images, and several who got 2000+.

I am not putting down anyone but "spraying and praying" isn't a method! LOL  The Op is referring to a Noob photographer as am I.  So how am I insulting this lovely community?

If someone was insulted I am sure I would have heard from them by now...

Marin Photography wrote:
Ridiculous? Depends on who you work with doesn't it? What's ridiculous is people who shoot thousands of photos like a machine gun and praying for a good shot. I don't do that and I stop after each set and let the model choose what she likes. Most models don't have thousands of poses so I don't get why people do that!

When it's a trade shoot we both have a say.  If she disapproves she has a chance to say something. Also, what's ridiculous is not asking to see them. We aren't all that controlling crazy types hahaha...If I am paying I don't bother doing that so it doesn't matter.

I only shoot about 20 shots per look or less!

Marin Photography wrote:
I am not putting down anyone but "spraying and praying" isn't a method! LOL  The Op is referring to a Noob photographer as am I.  So how am I insulting this lovely community?

If someone was insulted I am sure I would have heard from them by now...

Experienced photographers that shoot thousands of photos aren't usually ever "spraying & praying." Shooting many images in a short amount of time vs. taking forever to get a single image is just a difference in style, preference, and yes, *method*. Are you assuming that amateur photographers are the only one's who take hundreds/thousands of images in a single shoot?  If so, that is a very inaccurate assumption.

method: a procedure or process for attaining an object. (dictionary definition).
By that definition, "spraying and praying" as you like to call it, is in fact a method.  It might not be yours, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid.  Many talented and well-known fashion photographers use what you call the "spray and pray" method with pretty damn amazing results.

I'm glad nobody was insulted, but I had to point out that just because it's not your way, doesn't necessarily make it "ridiculous." The amount of images taken during a shoot has nothing to do with the quality of the images themselves.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

Marin Photography wrote:
I only shoot about 20 shots per look or less!

I'm glad nobody was insulted, but I had to point out that just because it's not your way, doesn't necessarily make it "ridiculous." The amount of images taken during a shoot has nothing to do with the quality of the images themselves.

Well you are right. I shouldn't have said that because it isn't my way. I have seen hundreds of videos of the pros at work, sports shooters shoot lots understandably. Maybe it's just me, I don't see the value of hundreds of shots of one model when she isn't moving in a pose. I try and get the look and pose I want then shoot. Maybe I'm crazy!?....

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
How much did you pay him?

You can only really expect editorial control if you're the client and this is part of the contract. Otherwise, you takes your chances....

As others have said, you could try asking very nicely if he would mind using a different shot - but be prepared for a refusal and possibly a hissy fit too. We photographers can be a touchy lot!




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

I totally agree.  A client has some editorial control, but if the photographer isn't being paid, I think it's a pretty general standard that he's got the editorial control.  Photography is very subjective.  I know some models who hate their very best photos.

GNapp Studios wrote:
I think most photographers and clients will select you based on YOUR portfolio, not the photographers.

+1

Tiffany Bond wrote:
... one or two of the photos were actually something I could use...

Did you get copies of the ones that you like?