Sophia Be wrote:
It's obvious you didn't read the whole thread. Hear is the TLDR

I'm not in CA

I am licensed as an esthetician. I am not a nail tech, or a hair dresser. (Most nail techs here work commission only, 50% on services FYI)

No one is arguing that 40-50% commission only is unfair, we all agree that is fair payment

I was asking other salon employees if it is different in the current economy for estheticians (if the pay was fair)

I am already a freelance MUA and have been for years

The job was paying a wage barely over min, but only for 15 min here, 1 hour there, not 40%+ commission

I would be an employee, not a contractor

The job was asking for the bulk of my payment when doing makeup out side the salon with my pre existing makeup clientele

They where asking for me to pay them for "training" (some of the training was watching youtube vids)

I would have had daily cleaning duties in the salon, which I would not be paid for

All of this was not disclosed up front, only after I was "hired"

Oh and I have shopped at Mary's store for years, just FYI, she knows what she's talking about, she does own a store. it may not be a salon, but every business has expenses (taxes, insurance, building rent etc)

I've been self employed for years, as a model, as a MUA as a performer, as a studio owner. I am well aware that it costs money to run a business.

And for crying out loud, if you are going to argue in this thread, please use paragraphs. it makes it easier to communicate

Edited to add. It seems like you have a bone to pick about the unfairness of being a business owner and your personal exsperience as a salon owner in CA. I get that, and agree, it's hard out there, for all small busniesses. But that is not what this thread was about

Don't bother Sophie

Either he did not read the thread or he does not want to hear.

I would report the salon to the IRS just because. I don't think what they are doing is legal and I don't like to see people getting over.

Chicchowmein wrote:

Don't bother Sophie

Either he did not read the thread or he does not want to hear.

I would report the salon to the IRS just because. I don't think what they are doing is legal and I don't like to see people getting over.

I think if they are doing something illegal, eventually some labor bureau will catch up to them.

I'm not sure if it is illegal, strictly speaking, or just unethical. Either way, I don't want to give them any more energy. I'm all about praising, not complaining, so I'm just gonna move on to a place that is fair and shower them with my hard work and appreciation

Sophia Be wrote:
I think if they are doing something illegal, eventually some labor bureau will catch up to them.

I'm not sure if it is illegal, strictly speaking, or just unethical. Either way, I don't want to give them any more energy. I'm all about praising, not complaining, so I'm just gonna move on to a place that is fair and shower them with my hard work and appreciation

You're probably right:)

Maybe it's because I am in Florida ( ass backwards state that it is) that I see a lot of illegal things and unethical things - - and when the job market is soft people get away with more nonsense.

It is so great when you find a job where there is mutual respect. I hope you find that place

Btw what is TLDR?

sweetcheekscouture wrote:

You're probably right:)

Maybe it's because I am in Florida ( ass backwards state that it is) that I see a lot of illegal things and unethical things - - and when the job market is soft people get away with more nonsense.

It is so great when you find a job where there is mutual respect. I hope you find that place

Btw what is TLDR?

Thank you

And TLDR stands for too long didn't read, used to indicate that one didn't read the whole text

I'm just getting down with the hip new lingo

Sophia Be wrote:
It's obvious you didn't read the whole thread. Hear is the TLDR

I'm not in CA

I am licensed as an esthetician. I am not a nail tech, or a hair dresser. (Most nail techs here work commission only, 50% on services FYI)

No one is arguing that 40-50% commission only is unfair, we all agree that is fair payment

I was asking other salon employees if it is different in the current economy for estheticians (if the pay was fair)

I am already a freelance MUA and have been for years

The job was paying a wage barely over min, but only for 15 min here, 1 hour there, not 40%+ commission

I would be an employee, not a contractor

The job was asking for the bulk of my payment when doing makeup out side the salon with my pre existing makeup clientele

They where asking for me to pay them for "training" (some of the training was watching youtube vids)

I would have had daily cleaning duties in the salon, which I would not be paid for

All of this was not disclosed up front, only after I was "hired"

Oh and I have shopped at Mary's store for years, just FYI, she knows what she's talking about, she does own a store. it may not be a salon, but every business has expenses (taxes, insurance, building rent etc)

I've been self employed for years, as a model, as a MUA as a performer, as a studio owner. I am well aware that it costs money to run a business.

And for crying out loud, if you are going to argue in this thread, please use paragraphs. it makes it easier to communicate

Edited to add. It seems like you have a bone to pick about the unfairness of being a business owner and your personal exsperience as a salon owner in CA. I get that, and agree, it's hard out there, for all small busniesses. But that is not what this thread was about

I get that, I'm on your side  believe me, I'd tell that salon to fuck  off and walk away,  you don't have talk about it here. You state that you have years of experience , ok.  fine why the fuck are you wasting your time with a penny ante operation?? Bitching about it?  I'm putting it to you   with all your"experience" you should have picked up on a bad deal from the get go. I'm not sure you want to be as successful as you can be, I had previously suggested a related job that would be a more rewarding for most. I know an estetician  licensed in CA, that worked in a spa, learned  enough to understand the business,  (MIND you the business, not just doing  facials, makeup,  etc),  hooked up with a plastic surgeon and dermatologist that created a skin treatment, is help marketing the procedure, working alongside the doctors in a skin care spa. Theres another cosmetologist I know that specializes in follicle stimulation therapy, she uses specialized shampoos and an electrostimulation device to help circulation on scalps.  the procedure seems to help, and the clients come back every week for continuing treatment.  Nobody else in the area does this. Do you think she is making money?  Someone said this and I'm paraphrasing, you can't get rich by working for somebody. If you want to be successful you need to be around successful people willing to help. and it doesn't mean doing anything illegal.

My point of contention here is the Independent contractor need not be present if not being paid to be. Which pretty much makes it impossible to give them work if they are not there to do the  job. If you can't  require them to be present to take on work, how can you give them work? They can't be independent contractors if you pay them to show up. they are employees,  you can't have it both ways

Sophia Be wrote:

Thank you

And TLDR stands for too long didn't read, used to indicate that one didn't read the whole text

I'm just getting down with the hip new lingo

TY

I've been wondering about that one for some time now.

the lonely photographer wrote:
really  ? I'm impressed....Those  sound like your employees,
if you need them around to perform services. The situation I'm talking about are licensed cosmetologists, that work under a salon as an independent contractor, or a renter.
in order to get walkins working in the  salon,  they have to be present in the salon when that happens. Thats just common sense. No salon will pay them to sit around and do nothing. If they want not show up and go to the beach, thats  fine,  customer walks in... the IC not there   boom   the customer goes to the next in line for walk in.  Not rocket science. No salon I know of in my area does it any differently. You don't seem to understand,  just being there in the salon does  not mean they re actually working doing any services. So no salon will pay for standing around. Nobody complains under this arrangement there are hundreds of salons in my area alone,   either you rent, go commission,  or go work in a hair factory where they work your ass off. How we work it, we have salon staff that has been together for as long as the salon has been opened, we cater to red carpet and celebrity events, including the Oscars, every new hairstylist wants to be in this situation, the workplace rules  you religiously espouse, do not address this situation, almost every professional organization, from architects, builders, doctors  have gone to this type of arrangement.  The system was setup to collect revenue and taxes trying to make everybody an employee so that payroll taxes and social security and workers comp, disability and other yet to be sprung on businesses so they can fund a broken down system riddled with fraud and waste..  our indys do their own taxes  write off their own expenses, much like a separate business. the minute they get paid as W2 they have to pay SSI,  and all the other stuff because of acccounting.
SSI is 15% of your gross earned income, self employed people pay all of it,  employees pay half of it, the other half the employer pays it.Technically. The 1099 people will pay the full 15%, one way around it is an S corp, but that comes with a yearly taxfiling of at  least $800  and you can't contribute to an IRA to offset gross income because of the corporation status, unless you file as an individual, then its personal 1040 you want to bet the gross pay to the employee the ssi is calculated into the wage scale?  All of the IC's would rather have all their money to use now. and its all legal.The whole system is fucked up I have attorneys, CPA's handling all this costing me shitloads of money luckily I can write this off. All this is designed to burden business and suck taxes every which way they can.Like every tax penalty and fee they come up with its always sold as a common good premise ,  like "its for the children" , it's for the environment,...redlight cameras save lives....bullshit

You  need to read before you comment.  You have no clue what you're talking about...   NONE....ZIP......

the lonely photographer wrote:

I get that, I'm on your side  believe me, I'd tell that salon to fuck  off and walk away,  you don't have talk about it here. You state that you have years of experience , ok.  fine why the fuck are you wasting your time with a penny ante operation?? Bitching about it?  I'm putting it to you   with all your"experience" you should have picked up on a bad deal from the get go. I'm not sure you want to be as successful as you can be, I had previously suggested a related job that would be a more rewarding for most. I know an estetician  licensed in CA, that worked in a spa, learned  enough to understand the business,  (MIND you the business, not just doing  facials, makeup,  etc),  hooked up with a plastic surgeon and dermatologist that created a skin treatment, is help marketing the procedure, working alongside the doctors in a skin care spa. Theres another cosmetologist I know that specializes in follicle stimulation therapy, she uses specialized shampoos and an electrostimulation device to help circulation on scalps.  the procedure seems to help, and the clients come back every week for continuing treatment.  Nobody else in the area does this. Do you think she is making money?  Someone said this and I'm paraphrasing, you can't get rich by working for somebody. If you want to be successful you need to be around successful people willing to help. and it doesn't mean doing anything illegal.

My point of contention here is the Independent contractor need not be present if not being paid to be. Which pretty much makes it impossible to give them work if they are not there to do the  job. If you can't  require them to be present to take on work, how can you give them work? They can't be independent contractors if you pay them to show up. they are employees,  you can't have it both ways

I'm starting to think you are just here to derail this thread. You are seriously just attacking people for no reason and not bothering to read what people are writing.

I never said I was experienced at working in a salon. In fact I said the opposite. Advanced training is exactly what I hoped to learn at a salon so that I don't have to pay thousands of $$$ to get the certifications for them and instead would be making money while learning.

And if you absolutely must know all my personal reasons for looking for work in a salon, well here ya go. I am no longer modeling and my kid is now old enough as to not require all my time, so, I'd like to take the extra time I have now and use it for work, plus get advanced training I'd have to otherwise pay for. That way I can continue to do makeup freelance, plus replace the income I used to make as a model, all while learning new, marketable skills.

Are you satisfied yet?