Me_LanieLove wrote:
A week goes by and model asks when photos will be ready. Photographer then proceeds to tell her that his computer crashed and that he didn't back up the files. He then asks if she would be able to re-shoot all of the content.

Don't assume ill-will!

Shit happens!

Last year in April... my external hard drive crashed with 650 GB photos, about a week or two before I wanted to get a back up drive...

Lost it ALL!!!

Even real specialists couldn't recover the files...

A N D E R S O N wrote:
Well if the model was paid their full rate I don't think they should expect images, unless it was a reduced rate + images, or images were promised in the initial deal. Not a "oh I love these so far, I'll totally send them to you!" during the shoot. Maybe the photographers lighting or some other technical aspect was off during the shoot and after a closer look in post nothing was usable, it happens when you take risks and try something new. If the photographer was paid then they definitely owe a re-shoot or money back. Sending retouched images via Facebook is very odd to me...

+1.

Me_LanieLove wrote:
Not on a cd, not via email, but via message on Facebook because the files are "too big" for any other method.

That's absolute nonsense.

Me_LanieLove wrote:
Photographer loves the model SO much that he'd just love to shoot with her again while not having to pay next time.  He asks and asks again for her availability to do this although he's been turned down due to paid shoots being prioritized.

Not your fault that the files were "lost." Quote him your regular rate and see if he still loves you, SO much.

Z.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
Why not reshoot for the same rate he paid you the first time??  Seems like that's the best compromise.

this

C2C Images wrote:
The photographer insistence on using FB necause the image files are too big makes him either a liar or an idiot!   I am therefore doubting the loss of images as well.

+1000

Me_LanieLove wrote:
Okay everyone, models and photographers, I want to know your opinion on a certain situation that has happened to me recently.

A paid (body paint) photo shoot is scheduled, model shows up on time, shoot starts on time, everything goes greatly, and everyone is happy.

Model is promised copies of photos within the next week. Not on a cd, not via email, but via message on Facebook because the files are "too big" for any other method. This is agreed upon and both part ways.

Photographer loves the model SO much that he'd just love to shoot with her again while not having to pay next time.  He asks and asks again for her availability to do this although he's been turned down due to paid shoots being prioritized.

A week goes by and model asks when photos will be ready. Photographer then proceeds to tell her that his computer crashed and that he didn't back up the files. He then asks if she would be able to re-shoot all of the content.

Now without knowing what model chose to do, what is your reaction? What do you do, model? Photographer, who's fault is it and what is expected of them? And as a photographer, what are your exact words to the model? I'm just dying to know other opinions on this and whether I was wrong in my reaction.

Thanks in advance!

My reactions:

1) Unless specifically part of the payment, receiving photos from a paid shoot is a perk, a bonus.  Were these photos promised as compensation or as gift/bonus/thank you?

The answer to would determine if the lack of photos is simply disappointing, an accidental breach of the agreement, or intentional breach.

2) Photos to be delivered by Facebook because the file are too big for any other method.  PURE bullshit.  One of the most ridiculous things I've heard in years.  That one statement alone makes me question someone's credibility and if serious, strongly suggests they don't know WTF they are talking about.

3) Computer crashes do happen, and backups are not always done as quickly/timely as they should be.  It does happen, so not that far fetched.

4) Photographer asking for free shoot and being turned down, then computer magically fails is quite coincidental, but it should not be very tough to see if photos from that shoot magically appear online.

As others have said, a reshoot should be paid again at the same rate OR if the photos were to be part of the compensation, then perhaps a higher rate due prior issues with delivery of photos.

Sounds like photographer was butthurt that the model would not agree to another shoot for free, somehow thought needing to redo would fix the problem, not realizing it makes photographer look even more shady.

Given the information presented, I would presume the model would decide to only work with the photographer in the future for full pay, or would either stop working with the photographer all together.

As to the other question "who's fault is it"...   whose fault for what?

White Lace Studios wrote:
I guess I am confused. The photographer paid the model. Pics were part of the agreement (hoping the rate was reduced - but their arrangement, fine.).

So model is paid
photog, for whatever reason, lost the images
Model wants a reshoot, to be paid (again) so she can get the images.

Am I reading this wrong?

If the photog was paid, then I would reshoot at my expense.

If I paid the model, I wouldn't have promised images to begin with (she was paid), but let's say I did. I wouldn't pay her again so just I could give her the images.

I'm guessing you are reading it wrong, as the OP stated:

He then asks if she would be able to re-shoot all of the content.

However, I could be reading it wrong.

Me_LanieLove wrote:
Okay everyone, models and photographers, I want to know your opinion on a certain situation that has happened to me recently.

A paid (body paint) photo shoot is scheduled, model shows up on time, shoot starts on time, everything goes greatly, and everyone is happy.

Model is promised copies of photos within the next week. Not on a cd, not via email, but via message on Facebook because the files are "too big" for any other method. This is agreed upon and both part ways.

Photographer loves the model SO much that he'd just love to shoot with her again while not having to pay next time.  He asks and asks again for her availability to do this although he's been turned down due to paid shoots being prioritized.

A week goes by and model asks when photos will be ready. Photographer then proceeds to tell her that his computer crashed and that he didn't back up the files. He then asks if she would be able to re-shoot all of the content.

Now without knowing what model chose to do, what is your reaction? What do you do, model? Photographer, who's fault is it and what is expected of them? And as a photographer, what are your exact words to the model? I'm just dying to know other opinions on this and whether I was wrong in my reaction.

Thanks in advance!

I am sorry that any photographer would "lose" any imagers of you!  Tragic things do happen though.  So I'll tell you something that happened to me and then what I think of all this.

I produced a video that was a spoof of like an American Idol show, but under a different name that was meant to promote a website I have that is under development.  I didn't have a lot of money, so I did it low budget with mostly volunteers that wanted to have some fun.   I had one guy who was my assistant in the production.  He brought his dad's camera, and some nice gear for recording audio.  I also had a couple other cameras so that most everything we shot was on at least two and sometimes three cameras.  We shot it all on tape with a separate audio track being recorded too since this was mostly about music and singing. 

The taping went well, and we were all excited about the results.  I gave the tapes to my assistant who was to edit and put together a finished product.  I went over to his house, and checked out some of the footage.  He impressed me when showing the difference between the audio from the cameras vs the audio made with his Protools on his laptop.  I thought this was going to be great! 

Then he calls me a week later to tell me that he lost everything when his computer hard drive crashed!  It was difficult hearing that, but I had no choice, but to believe him.  I would have been happy to have paid the other guy if he hadn't have lost the audio content he had recorded.  But he insisted that he was happy to have volunteered for my project.  So I got the tapes back from him and took 'em to another guy who I had worked with in the past, and paid him to pull it together into something from the on camera audio recordings and visual of course.

I'm not going to get into going over the past, what I could've or should've done ... but I learned from the experience.  About what happened with your shoot, you got paid, correct?  Be happy that you got some money from it.  Clearly if the photographer is lying or telling the truth, it does not matter.  The fact is that you are not going to get anything more from that shoot. 

My feelings are that you should not work with him "TFP" as perhaps that is his attempt to get you some pictures (or maybe not) but why would you want to work with him again anyway?  I am not going to work with the guy who was my assistant.  No need to explain, or get mad, just move on.  I kinda believe your photographer and my assistant because one of the hardest things for someone to do is admit when they lost an entire shoot.  It's a disaster, and there is no need to carry it further.  Move on, and best wishes!

udor wrote:
Don't assume ill-will!

Shit happens!

Last year in April... my external hard drive crashed with 650 GB photos, about a week or two before I wanted to get a back up drive...

Lost it ALL!!!

Even real specialists couldn't recover the files...

That is terrible!!!  I understand why it's important to have back ups of back ups now!

C2C Images wrote:
The photographer insistence on using FB necause the image files are too big makes him either a liar or an idiot!   I am therefore doubting the loss of images as well.

Paul Ferris  wrote:
Yeah the files too big for CD but not too big for Facebook seems a bit fishy as well.

Not really I send models the shoots in hi-res through Facebook all the time that are too big for CD

It's all down to how you use the English language and in how much I think the other person understands computers.

Me_LanieLove wrote:
Model is promised copies of photos within the next week. Not on a cd, not via email, but via message on Facebook because the files are "too big" for any other method. This is agreed upon and both part ways.

Wha... what?

Wolfy4u wrote:
There are many ways to send large files of photos. Facebook is not one of them. Dropbox of sites such as SendSpace can send at least up to 300mb files.

True,  but the point that TDL and I are making is that you can send large files via Facebook,  which is different to claiming to STORE the files in Facebook for transfer.

Dropbox is one of the many storage mediums I use to send Zip files,  but all links a delivered in a Facebook message. I rarely use CDs or USB sticks.

Considering the model believed it,  tells me the model may not be that IT literate.

Darren Brade wrote:

True,  but the point that TDL and I are making is that you can send large files via Facebook,  which is different to claiming to STORE the files in Facebook for transfer.

Dropbox is one of the many storage mediums I use to send Zip files,  but all links a delivered in a Facebook message. I rarely use CDs or USB sticks.

Considering the model believed it,  tells me the model may not be that IT literate.

Facebook actually works astoundingly well for sending images through the messaging system.  Their software butchers the colors and compression if you upload it to a gallery, but big images pass untouched through facebook messages.  And facebook has tremendous storage and bandwidth and is sadly ubiquitous, so is an easy and acceptable way to move images around one at a time.

White Lace Studios wrote:
I guess I am confused. The photographer paid the model. Pics were part of the agreement (hoping the rate was reduced - but their arrangement, fine.).

So model is paid
photog, for whatever reason, lost the images
Model wants a reshoot, to be paid (again) so she can get the images.

Am I reading this wrong?

If the photog was paid, then I would reshoot at my expense.

If I paid the model, I wouldn't have promised images to begin with (she was paid), but let's say I did. I wouldn't pay her again so just I could give her the images.

You misread. The PHOTOGRAPHER wants a re shoot, so that HE can get the images. It was not specified whether the re shoot would be paid or not.