Neil Snape wrote:
In the title it says don't.

Saying that says you are frustrated by the negative response to not doing TF with you. Especially whilst you are thinking they will with others.

Why tell others what they should or shouldn't do?   

Some models write they don't do nudes yet with certain people they most certainly do.

It is a difficult thing to do for a model to say honestly why they don't want to do TF with people asking, while maintaining a potential paid shooting.

Wrong. I am not frustrated. I do paid photo shoots and TF shoots, and the reason why I find this as an issue is that it is a lot easier when you are open to the MM users.

For instance, if they state they don't do nudes, it is more likely that they want have photographers asking if they can do nudes. It's obvious because it is stated taht way. But if they actually do nudes and not wanting MM to know, that is fine, I don;t have a problem with that.

And rather much the same with the TF thing.


It's just a matter of making the MM users understand more clearly what the model would do and wouldn't do.

Ario Triwibowo wrote:
Gee, I got left out way behind. So many replies.
I don't know where to start.

Well, I agree that it's the models decision to do a TF or not, under the condition that he/she must see the photographer's portfolio first.

But what bothers me is that, they sated that they can do TF, but when I came to ask about it, the answer is "Sorry I don't do TF anymore" Like I said in the first place, if you don't do TF or can do TF but only with very selective people, then please say so.
It confuses your policy in TF.

But when approached they make it clear they don't want to TF with you. Yes, it can be frustrating but once it is clear, move on. They are being nice without being blunt they just don't want to work with you.

Some word it that way to keep their options open and not discourage someone who they may want to work with. Just go to the next model. There isn't much time wasted on your part.

JonPhoto wrote:

Some word it that way to keep their options open and not discourage someone who they may want to work with. Just go to the next model. There isn't much time wasted on your part.

+1 
Sometimes a model may like a photographers style but not the theme or idea for a particular shoot/project or  they have too much of that type of images already or they've already booked their quote of trades shoot for that month.    So just because a model say's no to doing one shoot/project doesn't mean they're always going to say no.  Sure there models that no matter how good you get will always say no to doing trade with you.  Which leaves you with choice of moving on and finding another model that will or if you feel the model is worth it pay them.

Ario Triwibowo wrote:
But what bothers me is that, they sated that they can do TF, but when I came to ask about it, the answer is "Sorry I don't do TF anymore" Like I said in the first place, if you don't do TF or can do TF but only with very selective people, then please say so.
It confuses your policy in TF.

Don't know why you should be bothered by it, just say thanks and move on.

Mcary wrote:

+1 
Sometimes a model may like a photographers style but not the theme or idea for a particular shoot/project or  they have too much of that type of images already or they've already booked their quote of trades shoot for that month.    So just because a model say's no to doing one shoot/project doesn't mean they're always going to say no.  Sure there models that no matter how good you get will always say no to doing trade with you.  Which leaves you with choice of moving on and finding another model that will or if you feel the model is worth it pay them.

True, a no from me rarely means never, a different job, a different time, maybe.

Likewise, I would work with someone who turned me down for a previous job, you can't win them all.

JadeDRed wrote:
Anyone who thinks that someone stating they will do TFP can mean anything but they will do TFP for some but not all is mentally retarded.

Nearly ANYONE who does trades will say yes to some offers and no to others.  As Jade says, it can hardly mean anything but, "yes to some, no to some."

RKD Photographic wrote:

Exactly - stating that they work TFP doesn't, cannot possibly mean they will shoot TFP with every person who asks - that's insane...

This is a valid point but there's a huge difference between a model stating that she's only doing select TF* when she's contacted for a trade shoot and one who claims (as the OP posts states) that she's only doing paid assignments.

Obviously it would be impossible to shoot with everyone who wants to do a TF* shoot but it's also unprofessional to state that you do these types of shoots and then when contacted say that you have to be paid for your work. If a model wants to be paid that's fine but it's bad form to waste someone's time by claiming they're willing to do something they're not.

Ario Triwibowo wrote:
Hello. I would like to have a discussion here. I don't know whether this has been brought up or not.

I have seen a lot of models from where I came from, stating in MM that they can do TFCD and interested to do it to expand their portfolio and stuffs.

But when I approach them to discuss such project, they overturn their policy by saying paid assignments only.

I mean to these models, if you don't want TFCD, why don't you just say it in the beginning. Or if you have changed your mind, by using to accept TFCD in the past but no at the present, then at least change it in your profile too?

I just find it a bit inconsistent and annoying to some extent.


What do you think?

So they trade, just not with you. That's what I'm hearing.
No one is obligated to do a trade shoot with everyone that approaches them just because they list that they do trade shoots on their profile.

Glenn Hall - Fine Art wrote:
It's a vanity thing. Call yourself a model, make an account here on MM and then feed the ego and insist on payment after a few bites from unwitting photographers looking for TFP collaboration. Pretty much sums up most of the "models" in my town who are on MM and in addition to your problem, do nothing but check to see how many friends they have made and ignore any requests for quality work and brag how popular they are on Facebook.

Yes, because us models totally just are attention whores.
There's no WAY we wouldn't actually be business oriented and only test/trade for images that would actually benefit us.
That's just fuckin' crazy talk.

Glenn Hall - Fine Art wrote:
It's a vanity thing. Call yourself a model, make an account here on MM and then feed the ego and insist on payment after a few bites from unwitting photographers looking for TFP collaboration. Pretty much sums up most of the "models" in my town who are on MM and in addition to your problem, do nothing but check to see how many friends they have made and ignore any requests for quality work and brag how popular they are on Facebook.

+100

Nicolette wrote:
So they trade, just not with you. That's what I'm hearing.
No one is obligated to do a trade shoot with everyone that approaches them just because they list that they do trade shoots on their profile.

As it has been pointed out and as I will reiterate: there's a huge difference between saying you do TF* and then when contacted saying you're soley interested in paid assignments (which is what the OP indicated as the issue) and stating on your profile that you'll do select TF* and then telling a photographer that may not meet your standards that you'd wish to be paid for shooting with them and at the heart of that difference is that one approach (the latter) is professional while the other is not.

HoniDrops wrote:
Theres alot more to modeling than "a look in x port".  By your logic, once a photographer does a swimsuit shoot, they should never do another.  Repetition develops skill and creativity.  At least, that's what I thought.

That is sort of illogical. I shoot mostly art nudes and not going to stop because I done them already. I am talking about pro freelance models who actually make a living at modeling. If they have 50 pics of swimsuit beach shots in their port, unless you are going to do something different with them that they don't have in their port, why would they need more? They probably have a lot more that isn't in their port. For example, you offer models an underwater swimwear shoot, if the pics in you port are good, I guarantee a lot of swimsuit models would love that in their ports because it is different.

And yes, I agree. Some models with crappy ports are only after the quick buck. The good thing is they never last long.

Darren Brade wrote:
Why are people expecting "professional" behaviour from everyone on an amateur website?

I could understand this if MM was a professional only website.

+1

Tiffany_B wrote:

As it has been pointed out and as I will reiterate: there's a huge difference between saying you do TF* and then when contacted saying you're soley interested in paid assignments (which is what the OP indicated as the issue) and stating on your profile that you'll do select TF* and then telling a photographer that may not meet your standards that you'd wish to be paid for shooting with them and at the heart of that difference is that one approach (the latter) is professional while the other is not.

It's called 'letting someone down gently'. If we just told people they weren't good enough they'd complain about that too.

"It's not you, it's me, I'm just not looking for a TFP shoot right now."

JadeDRed wrote:
It's called 'letting someone down gently'. If we just told people they weren't good enough they'd complain about that too.

"It's not you, it's me, I'm just not looking for a TFP shoot right now."

We'll have to agree to disagree on this matter.

First, I don't think that turning down a TF* shoot solely an issue of a model not thinking a photographer is good enough to shoot with. There are far too many "models" on this site with horrid images and I'm not just talking about images that don't meet my personal taste but rather shots that are clearly taken with cell phones, selfies, proofs and images that are blurred who list "paid assignments only". There are also "models" who claim to want to shoot who are perpetual flakes...My point is that it isn't always a case of mismatched talent levels or differing aesthetics, there are some "models" who are delusional and think that a pretty face should equal dollar signs.

Personally, I think that it's far better to be upfront about your intent than it is to essentially do a bait and switch. Obviously a model can't shoot TF* with everyone who asks, no one can but there's a big difference between advertising yourself as available for trade shoots and advertising yourself for selective trade shoots and that is that with the latter it's not (or shouldn't be) a surprise if rates are quoted.

Ario Triwibowo wrote:
Hello. I would like to have a discussion here. I don't know whether this has been brought up or not.

I have seen a lot of models from where I came from, stating in MM that they can do TFCD and interested to do it to expand their portfolio and stuffs.

But when I approach them to discuss such project, they overturn their policy by saying paid assignments only.

I mean to these models, if you don't want TFCD, why don't you just say it in the beginning. Or if you have changed your mind, by using to accept TFCD in the past but no at the present, then at least change it in your profile too?

I just find it a bit inconsistent and annoying to some extent.


What do you think?

instead of saying "No" to you, they are charging you. Thats all, and models have discussed this dilemma before on this website, and we will all tell them to charge.