Patrick Walberg wrote:
We ALL have limitations!  My dad had coached some high school basketball teams to the State Championships back in the day.  My dad has since passed away, but his lessons remain in my mind.  He would say that you've got to have "balance" in life as in sports.  You've got to be aware of what others are doing, especially with team sports, but not so much as to effect your own personal best.  The key being "personal best!"   Knowing what you are capable of will only help you to overcome those limitations!  Rock on brother! 

! Fabulous. Thank you for sharing.

Coaches in high school and 15 years later, college, really set amazing examples and were beacons of inspiration for me.
Jen

Patrick Walberg wrote:

The vast majority of models that I photograph are well below 5' 10" ... probably an average height of 5' 4" over all.  I've shot many models who are 5'2 ... but it all depends on what we are shooting for.

Hi,
Yes, I included your post to my reply only to clarify my sidbar as you mentioned age and height and that anything can happen.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
...
The fact is that she is only 16 and a lot can happen in the next couple years. ...

And at 16 years of age, she does not have the height or proper measurements to do high fashion ... but could do commercial print and other sides of fashion including parts modeling perhaps.  I make no bones about it, for her to do any of this and make a decent income will take lots of work on her part!  You and I don't know what the future holds, so any or all of us could be dead wrong either direction as to what happens in a couple years.

In regards to height, at 16 it is likely she has reached hers or nearly has, no bearing on anything other than age and height.

stephanie weller wrote:
- As for the flash problem, as it only started a few months back and well after I started having seizures, I'm hoping it's a temporary thing. I've asked gran to take part in an experiment with me which means taking everyday family photos with flash in different lighting levels to see how much I can tolerate and when.

Steph

Steph,

I think this is a bad idea. Very bad and I discourage it.

Please do not do this.
Jen

MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:

! Fabulous. Thank you for sharing.

Coaches in high school and 15 years later, college, really set amazing examples and were beacons of inspiration for me.
Jen

Yes!  You are welcome! 

MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:
In regards to height, at 16 it is likely she has reached hers or nearly has, no bearing on anything other than age and height.

You are likely correct about her height.  My point here is that she can change quite a lot from how she appears as a 16 year old to when she gets into her early 20's.  Heck!  At 16, she is still a child by California law!  She is in a transition period of her young life.  She mentioned alternative and fitness modeling, well I know models who have developed into becoming successful models in those areas though a lot of hard work.   

If she is still interested in the area of fashion, well perhaps she can do some print work, or parts modeling.  Chances are that she wont ever be in the big leagues walking the high fashion catwalks with expensive designer clothes, but what about local shows and small designers.  I've shot fashion shows for local events, but I don't anticipate that I will ever be shooting New York fashion week.  We all have our own goals depending on our level of abilities.

stephanie weller wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice and I thought I'd just clear up on a few things:

- I've decided not to quit as such, but take tfp work alongside paid work to build a stronger portfolio
- I got told to take down older photos as I quite clearly looked under 16 in them and was banned for a while
- In terms of survival income - If I did 10 hours shooting a month at current rates I'd be just reaching it (it works out at £250 a month on top of bursaries and family help).
- As for the flash problem, as it only started a few months back and well after I started having seizures, I'm hoping it's a temporary thing. I've asked gran to take part in an experiment with me which means taking everyday family photos with flash in different lighting levels to see how much I can tolerate and when.

Steph

Bringing this over to the second page...

I'm glad that you are not a "quitter" as you've already done some extraordinary things in your short life.

To shoot some TFP is good.

Newer pictures is good. 

You're expectations of 10 hours a month at the current wage you are getting paid is a realistic goal and within reach! 

The issue with strobes is why I brought this over more than anything ... Be careful!  Talk with your doctor before trying something like that, please!  Mostly because if you do cause yourself to have a seizure, I don't think the doctor would go for that sort of "experimenting" so at least talk with him or her about it before starting such a thing.  If modeling with strobes puts your health at risk, don't do it.

Strobes are not necessary for dance and stage shots.  I have photographed many dancers in my time!  When I was a teenager, my first assignment was a belly dancer troupe.  I shot with slide film (Ektachrome pushed at 800) with available light which was always dim ... and never with flash!   I've since specialized in shooting dancers and musicians for 30 years now.  My studio was inside a dancer studio ... and I prefer stage lighting over using flash.  It can be done!

MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:
As a side note, generally women stop increasing in height once menstruation starts, whereas men potentially can continue to increase for years beyond puberty.

At 16 years old I was 5'11" and at 18 I did peak at 5'11.75", (I know this because I was hoping to make 6'!) However now I am only 5'10.5".

It isn't necessarily likely that she will gain inches in height but, wow on her athleticism.
Jen

Girls generally grow 2-3 inches after their first period.  But this is really just a very general guideline, there are way too many exceptions.

In my case, I had my first period when I was 13, I stopped growing when I was 23. I was 5'10 when I was 18, would have been so perfect if I stopped there

LA StarShooter wrote:
I think Udor and also the photographer in Georgia gave strong and good advice. In Hollywood here, we have child stars and often their star power fades in adolescence. It is not unusual.

In response to the criticism of photographers pointing out that strobes are used a lot in commercial photography and being naysayers I don't believe it is compassionate to advise someone to something that is unrealistic and a waste of their valuable youth.

Good point about child stars.  Stephanie said that she's been in pageants since age 5 ... (I'm not a fan of child pageants either, but beside the point) she has modeled, been with an agency until a couple years ago, and also has been on a competitive gymnastics team.  At 16, she has hit a transitional period in her life. Some are able to make changes necessary to continue into their adult life, and some are not.

As for you comment about strobes, I barely use strobe or flash anymore!  I use natural, available and continuous tungsten or LED lighting (so I can shoot video too!)  Even though I have my old studio lighting gear (strobes) ... I have not set them up since I barely shoot film anymore.  That's just me, but I don't think the young lady is wasting her youth when there are photographers like me who would shoot her without strobes.

Will Yumm wrote:
Okay...I'll be blunt. Why are you even trying to model? You're obviously not cut out for it. Give it up. Quit. There are too many reasons to list why you shouldn't even consider modeling as a source of income.

I'll be blunt too.  You are obnoxious, judgmental, and should quit too.    You are not even reading?  Or are you just not considering that she has already been modeling as a source of income?  I was told to quit photography many times, and to get a "real job" but I didn't listen.  My own photography is "complete garbage" and I'm "should be ashamed to take money" for it, but I absolutely LOVE photography and it's all I want to do regardless of what others think.  Smile!  You'll feel better! 

Patrick Walberg wrote:
You're expectations of 10 hours a month at the current wage you are getting paid is a realistic goal and within reach!

Realistic for whom?

Not the OP I'll warrant. Do you actually have any idea what likelihood there is of a 5'3" 16 year old with non-fashion stats living 50 miles from London and who can't tolerate strobes getting 10 hours of paid modelling work in the UK per month, every month?

No, I gathered not.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Chances are that she wont ever be in the big leagues walking the high fashion catwalks with expensive designer clothes.

"Chances are"?

I'd call it more of a 100% certainty unless she manages to become a major celebrity via some other route.

I'm sorry Patrick, but your incessant sugar-coating of the facts is NOT doing the OP or anybody else in a similar position any favours at all.

Tell it like it is - that's the kindest policy in the long run.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Patrick Walberg wrote:
You're expectations of 10 hours a month at the current wage you are getting paid is a realistic goal and within reach!

That Italian Guy wrote:
Realistic for whom?

Not the OP I'll warrant. Do you actually have any idea what likelihood there is of a 5'3" 16 year old with non-fashion stats living 50 miles from London and who can't tolerate strobes getting 10 hours of paid modelling work in the UK per month, every month?

No, I gathered not.

She is 5' 5" ... I know you have shot with models who are 5' 5" before, although you likely wouldn't shoot with the OP, but I regress ... so I repeat what she wrote;
 
"- In terms of survival income - If I did 10 hours shooting a month at current rates I'd be just reaching it (it works out at £250 a month on top of bursaries and family help)."

... and remind you that she has already been working as a model in the past.  I don't believe that her finding 10 hours of work in modeling a month is impossible. You have stated your opinion, and I've stated mine.  Let's leave it at that.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Chances are that she wont ever be in the big leagues walking the high fashion catwalks with expensive designer clothes.

That Italian Guy wrote:
"Chances are"?

I'd call it more of a 100% certainty unless she manages to become a major celebrity via some other route.

I'm sorry Patrick, but your incessant sugar-coating of the facts is NOT doing the OP or anybody else in a similar position any favours at all.

Tell it like it is - that's the kindest policy in the long run.

I am not one who believes in judging others harshly or in absolutes when even you said you'd "call it more of a 100% certainty unless ..."  and that is big of you to admit that nothing with the exception of "taxes and death" is truly absolute.  I don't like to make harsh judgement of certain things that are not absolute.  So how do we know she wont become a celebrity? Even though the odds are against it, we honestly don't know.  That is why you used "unless" yourself to clarify the existence of the "no absolutes, and never say never" rules that I tend to live by.

As to what I have written being "sugar coated" ... I am NOT sugar coating anything!  I've said that she will likely change a lot in the next couple years.  That she is in a transitional period of her life.  Also I've said that for her to do "alternative" or "fitness" modeling will take a lot of work on her part!  It's not impossible for her.  She will have her failures!  Unless one is born with a silver spoon in mouth, we shall fail before they reach success!

Why anyone would think that telling a 16 year old that she wont make it, that she should give up, and quit now will be helpful, I don't know?  Sometimes it does have the opposite effect though.  Those telling her to forget modeling might actually push her to work harder at it.  The ones who are judging her as though they know her, are perhaps ignoring that she has accomplished some modeling in her short life already.  You and I don't know what the future holds for this young lady. 

I love the negative people!  The haters and naysayers!  Those who told me when I first started out that I'd never make it as a photographer, that my photography is shitty and I'd go broke before I'd have success.  Not one single person who put me down knew that I would have continued shooting pictures for over 30 years.  My income has been derived from photography directly for the majority of that time.  I've met some amazing people, made an adequate income and am very happy with what I've done with my life, even on days when I think my photography is "shitty" too! 

Patrick Walberg wrote:

You are likely correct about her height.  My point here is that she can change quite a lot from how she appears as a 16 year old to when she gets into her early 20's.  Heck!    ...  We all have our own goals depending on our level of abilities.

Yes, indeed. If not for this then I wouldn't be here either.

Anna Adrielle wrote:

Girls generally grow 2-3 inches after their first period.  But this is really just a very general guideline, there are way too many exceptions.

In my case, I had my first period when I was 13, I stopped growing when I was 23. I was 5'10 when I was 18, would have been so perfect if I stopped there

You ARE perfect right where you are. !!

MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:
Yes, indeed. If not for this then I wouldn't be here either.

Thank you for not attacking me for allegedly sugar coating my comments.  I have my doubts about her growing much taller ... and so I would encourage her to focus more towards either the alternative or fitness modeling. I will be careful with my next comments because we are not allowed to critique here. The OP happens to be a 16 year old model, so what I write next is in regards to 16 year old models in general.

Many 16 year old girls will see their body shape change over the next couple years as they grow older.  They might have a higher percentage of body fat that will dissipate or redistribute by the time they get to their later teens, and early twenties.  But if they are going to model for high fashion, of course they will already need the typical height and body style of models working in that area, which is tall and thin with smaller hips and boobs.  That is pretty standard, but on a website like this, one can find models and photographers to fit any genera.

When I think of "Alternative" models, I look for some tattoos, piercings, and often times a pin up model shape.  Alternative can also mean nudity, bondage, and fetish ... but it's not always a requirement.  I've worked with some alternative models for pin up, glamour and car shoots before.  They are typically in their mid 20's, so I would say that it's normal for an 18 year old to start down that path of her modeling career. 

Fitness modeling is a whole other genera if one is very serious about it.  I have only shot with a few fitness models in my time, but I know what I look for.  They need to have a lower body fat ratio than the typical glamour models I like shooting with.  That doesn't mean a model can't do glamour and fitness, it's just that the approach  of the shoot will vary depending on just how ripped a model is.  I like a fitness model who isn't overly hard or ripped, but some muscle fitness magazines that have to do with competition will want the more ripped body style.

Just like with alternative modeling, there are various degrees of fitness modeling.  If someone is going to be a "fitness" model who wears swimwear, and has a healthy fit body, it's a great body to have for a good variety of health and fitness types of shoots.  If some one does a lot of weight lifting, and is into the competition style of fitness, then typically they will have a harder body. 

Depending on how extreme one goes with body modifications for alternative or weight training for fitness, this will determine what jobs a model will get.  For a 16 year old to say that she wants to do "alternative, fitness, and fashion" means that she is not sure exactly what direction she is going to take her modeling.  I suggested that education and taking a break from modeling might help, but it is not necessary to quit modeling altogether.  A whole lot can happen to a 16 year old in the next 4 years ... when she is 22 years old, she might be very different looking! 

stephanie weller wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice and I thought I'd just clear up on a few things:

- I've decided not to quit as such, but take tfp work alongside paid work to build a stronger portfolio
- I got told to take down older photos as I quite clearly looked under 16 in them and was banned for a while
- In terms of survival income - If I did 10 hours shooting a month at current rates I'd be just reaching it (it works out at £250 a month on top of bursaries and family help).
- As for the flash problem, as it only started a few months back and well after I started having seizures, I'm hoping it's a temporary thing. I've asked gran to take part in an experiment with me which means taking everyday family photos with flash in different lighting levels to see how much I can tolerate and when.

Steph

Your health is priority, please don't aggravate it by potentially bringing on seizures. You might grow out of it when you're older but I advise you to speak to your doctor about it. Besides, it's possible to create lovely photos with natural light, I never use flash. I'm glad you're not quitting, you should do what makes you happy and not let anyone stand in your way. Best of luck.