Caitin Bre wrote:
... 800 full day plus travel and expenses...

Hugh Alison wrote:
How often do you actuallly get paid this?

I think I made something similar to that once, and it was for a full day that required getting up at 4am, driving into a national park, and hiking into the location carrying gear and whatnot on our backs. It wasn't just a normal shoot.

Abbitt Photography wrote:

Yeah, we see beginners who are advised in threads like this to charge what the most successful models make, and then we see threads speaking to beginner models asking for high rates of pay, and wondering why nobody hires them.

Some of the rates quoted in these threads are like some of the camera bags full of exotic L lenses in photography threads - wishful thinking.

That Italian Guy wrote:
+1

If you start charging for nudes before you have a decent portfolio then you run the risk of getting stuck in a catch-22 loop of shooting only with GWCs who just want to see you naked and won't give you images you can use to encourage better people to work with you.



Just my $0.02

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
But they pay the best.

Just my $0.02

In my own experience, even being able to really capitalize on the "GWC" market requires having a bad-ass portfolio, references and great persistence in networking. You're not even going to be able to make income off of these folks if they don't know who you are, or whom you've previously shot with, or have a very good idea of what you look like before hiring you. Yeah, the GWC market can be a good profit, but even then, you have to work hard to win their favor, so they will see you are worth dropping a few hundred bucks to shoot.

Caitin Bre wrote:
125 nude to 150 erotic artistic pr hr with 2 hr min. 400 half day 800 full day plus travel and expenses.

You can always negotiate.

To build your port up do part pay with part trade a few times with someone good. If you get a chance to work with someone great work out a good trade for 3 or 4 looks.

800, do you get many offers ?

natural beauties of qld wrote:

With those rates you can be certain that you will have to negotiate and a great many photographers would not even bother to try.

+1
Not for me...

natural beauties of qld wrote:

With those rates you can be certain that you will have to negotiate and a great many photographers would not even bother to try.

It certainly weeds out photographers that have no interest in paying or are not good enough to get there value out of the shoot.
There are plenty that have no problem paying even more for artistic erotic works.
You can pay what ever you want and a model can charge what ever she wants. There is no set price or standard. Its all about perceived values.
I don't see the not even bother to try attitude as much as you make it sound. I stay pretty well booked and when I went to this pricing structure it sure made life much easier. A lot less BS and better bottom line.

c_h_r_i_s wrote:

800, do you get many offers ?

Plenty.

Koryn Locke wrote:
I think I made something similar to that once, and it was for a full day that required getting up at 4am, driving into a national park, and hiking into the location carrying gear and whatnot on our backs. It wasn't just a normal shoot.

Whats a normal shoot? They are all different and require good negotiation skills. You have to have the confidence that you will be able to collaborate and get exactly what they are looking for. I know I can.
A photographer that is confident in his ability to get his value out of the shoot sees no problem in your rates.

Caitin Bre wrote:
Whats a normal shoot? They are all different and require good negotiation skills. You have to have the confidence that you will be able to collaborate and get exactly what they are looking for. I know I can.
A photographer that is confident in his ability to get his value out of the shoot sees no problem in your rates.

A lot people might see value in a shoot, but simply cannot afford to spend $500 to shoot some pretty woman from the internet. That's incredibly idealistic (and from my own experience, not particularly realistic) to believe you can get whatever you expect, simply because you (the general"you," not you specifically) are "worth" it. A model believing she is worth $150/hr does not make it so to the majority of folks she is going to be negotiating with, regardless of her looks or the results she can provide.

It mostly just means she is going to lose out on work, because 80% of the people who contact her won't be able to afford it, and another 16% of those people will just assume she's a diva with rates that high, and will never answer back, regardless of whether or not they can pay that much. Then it goes back to the old question, does a business come out better making one sale of $1000, or making 5 sales of $200. With modeling, and keeping rates moderate, you're going to accomplish better networking if you're shooting more frequently, for enough to turn a profit, but with more folks. How many people can you realistically impress, so they will tell everyone else what a good job you do, if only one or two ever book you?

I do NOT believe people should rip themselves off, and work for next to nothing. You have to get something back that is worth your time, but there is a point where you're just hurting your own business, potentially.

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
But they pay the best.

Just my $0.02

Yes they do. and they are essential to a freelance model who desires to make money. If you are planning on working with what MM calls seasoned pro's you won't make crap. They perceive a models value as squat. Unmatched to there perceived value.

All the bs you hear about what they call GWC's is crap as well. As the undertone here would suggest you are automatically a GWC if you pay a model what she is asking. MM self proclaimed pros crack me up. Pro at what? Pro at getting models to work for free or next to nothing. How do I know this? I learned it from the real pro's themselves. Who btw have no problems paying a model what she is asking. They are good enough to have the budget to do so.
Everyone that shoots erotic and nude are GWC's. some are more secretive about it than others. That's just fine with me. It is no big deal if you get turned on shooting me nude. I would think that you have a problem if you don't. Its how you control yourself that is the only issue.
Photographers stop and think about it for a minute. How much do you really make off your nude shoots? Most will say they don't that its a hobby. They do it because they like it. And they will pay what ever they have budgeted for there hobby. If they have a tiny budget then they will try and find people to work with that don't charge very much or will nude for free. Its all a game and how you play it.

Images by MR wrote:

Not true.     All you need is the right stats/look

Yup. I know plenty of girls who got paid and beautiful images when they first started shooting, even nudes. MM will always say shoot for free first, but if you shoot for certain people with clients and have the right look you can get paid off the bat

c_h_r_i_s wrote:

800, do you get many offers ?

I make 800 or more almost every shoot I do

Schlake wrote:
Where I live, New Mexico, porn seems to start at $50 an hour.  I've had a lot of models claim they get $100 or $150 an hour without nudity, though.  The only girls I know who actually get that much money are doing porn, and they work for a lot less when it's not porn they are shooting.

I offer $30 an hour for athletic nudity (actually doing athletics, not just being fit looking).  That is more money than I make at my job "per hour" (but less than my "rate" including benefits) and it doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

God. That's ridiculously low. Now I remember why I quit working with MM people so much

Ashley Graham wrote:

Yup. I know plenty of girls who got paid and beautiful images when they first started shooting, even nudes. MM will always say shoot for free first, but if you shoot for certain people with clients and have the right look you can get paid off the bat

+1000

Ashley Graham wrote:

God. That's ridiculously low. Now I remember why I quit working with MM people so much

Oh yes, $30 an hour is RIDICULOUSLY LOW.  Bill Gates makes something like $1000 a second doesn't he?

Ashley Graham wrote:

I make 800 or more almost every shoot I do

You're mixing apples and kiwi fruit.

Ashley Graham wrote:

I make 800 or more almost every shoot I do

Did you make that when you were a new model with no nudes in your portfolio?

Caitin Bre wrote:
Everyone that shoots erotic and nude are GWC's. some are more secretive about it than others.

You have obviously not worked with the same photographers that I have.

Ashley Graham wrote:

God. That's ridiculously low. Now I remember why I quit working with MM people so much

You can charge $800 due to your look (the GWC reaction to your look) and your credits: hustler and so on. You may, indeed, regularly bank that.

For the OP: You can bank in nudes. It's all about marketing and having some good shots in the portfolio. It doesn't take years. Nude models have this in common with fashion models: you either have a really good or hot look and through that you book work or you don't have a really good or hot look and then it is much harder. If you want to bank: you just need one good nude shoot in there and you'll be on the circuit, travelling around, occasionally reading MM forums about how you need to work naked for a year before you can charge. Go forth and be nude.

Cherrystone wrote:
You're mixing apples and kiwi fruit.

Not really. I know plenty of new girls who have never been naked make that on their first nude shoot. And I mean PLENTY. If she seeks out people who have real clients and not GWCs its not a must to have experience

LA StarShooter wrote:

You can charge $800 due to your look (the GWC reaction to your look) and your credits: hustler and so on. You may, indeed, regularly bank that.

For the OP: You can bank in nudes. It's all about marketing and having some good shots in the portfolio. It doesn't take years. Nude models have this in common with fashion models: you either have a really good or hot look and through that you book work or you don't have a really good or hot look and then it is much harder. If you want to bank: you just need one good nude shoot in there and you'll be on the circuit, travelling around, occasionally reading MM forums about how you need to work naked for a year before you can charge. Go forth and be nude.

Actually its not a GWC reaction to my look. I rarely shoot for them. I shoot for real clients who will pay that to new girls depending on their looks. Everyone here screams do TF. All you need is one good nude shot. If you're submitting to any company who shoots nude girls, they DO NOT want pro photos, they want some snapshots. I'm consistently sending out cell phone pics to companies. That is asked for way more often than pro shots. Then again, I work in the real world of modeling and not MM's imaginary world. So, I guess I don't know how it works

Koryn Locke wrote:

A lot people might see value in a shoot, but simply cannot afford to spend $500 to shoot some pretty woman from the internet. That's incredibly idealistic (and from my own experience, not particularly realistic) to believe you can get whatever you expect, simply because you (the general"you," not you specifically) are "worth" it. A model believing she is worth $150/hr does not make it so to the majority of folks she is going to be negotiating with, regardless of her looks or the results she can provide.

It mostly just means she is going to lose out on work, because 80% of the people who contact her won't be able to afford it, and another 16% of those people will just assume she's a diva with rates that high, and will never answer back, regardless of whether or not they can pay that much. Then it goes back to the old question, does a business come out better making one sale of $1000, or making 5 sales of $200. With modeling, and keeping rates moderate, you're going to accomplish better networking if you're shooting more frequently, for enough to turn a profit, but with more folks. How many people can you realistically impress, so they will tell everyone else what a good job you do, if only one or two ever book you?

I do NOT believe people should rip themselves off, and work for next to nothing. You have to get something back that is worth your time, but there is a point where you're just hurting your own business, potentially.

There are a few avenues you can take with making money off your modeling. You can charge what you can get and shoot with people who pay it.
You can get images that are of value and market them yourself. Print,websites,stock etc...
You can pay someone like Ken Marcus to shoot some fetish work of you to have a members only pay site. Some photographers will work for %.
There are other ways as well.
The best thing is to not short yourself. Although it sounds realistic on MM to work TF and for a loss all the time it simply does not pay to play that game and is not reality. If you plan on staying in the game very long then you need to make bank. Study what you want to do. Listen to the people who know. Work with people who understand your goals and respect them.
You can always just shoot tf for your people to go goo goo ga ga but it won't make you squat. And out of sight out of mind you go.

Isis22 wrote:

You have obviously not worked with the same photographers that I have.

I work with a few in Indianapolis. Don't know if you get there much but they pay just fine.

Ashley Graham wrote:
God. That's ridiculously low. Now I remember why I quit working with MM people so much

Schlake wrote:
Oh yes, $30 an hour is RIDICULOUSLY LOW.  Bill Gates makes something like $1000 a second doesn't he?

30.00 an hour to pay for rent in LA, CA is not the same as 30.00 an hour to pay for rent in Socorro, New Mexico.

Also you have to understand that while you are paying 30 an hour the model must work on average 3 hours unpaid for each hour paid on camera.

Sure you get models while paying 30.00/hr, but a very business savvy model will find the clients that pay much much more.


Some models are happy with the 50-100/hr rates while others make sure to get the 100.00+/hour rates.

The only difference between the two is that one demands that rate and will do the jobs required to get it.

Laura UnBound wrote:
You'll get laughed right out of the city for trying to quote 800 in Toronto unless you're shooting porn. Y'all can wave around how much money you make till your hands fall off but it won't matter, the Toronto market won't bear rates like that. And unless you consistently made 800/shoot when you were a newbie shooting implied and art nudes, that rate also doesn't matter because the OP is a newbie, with no nudes in her port at all, not someone with 6+ years of experience, solid diverse portfolio, reputation, etc. lets try for something actually even remotely realistic and helpful eh?

You obviously have not marketed it. There is plenty of work in Toronto that will pay. I have got requests with travel and hotel to go there so I know it to be fact.
If you build it they will come.

Caitin Bre wrote:

You obviously have not marketed it. There is plenty of work in Toronto that will pay. I have got requests with travel and hotel to go there so I know it to be fact.
If you build it they will come.

k, you're right.

Caitin Bre wrote:

You obviously have not marketed it. There is plenty of work in Toronto that will pay. I have got requests with travel and hotel to go there so I know it to be fact.
If you build it they will come.

There may be work that pays 800/shoot in Toronto/Everywhere else but it is NOT modeling work that most models are willing to accept.

You work a VERY small niche market Catlin Bre, most models don't wish to.

Ashley Graham wrote:

Actually its not a GWC reaction to my look. I rarely shoot for them. I shoot for real clients who will pay that to new girls depending on their looks. Everyone here screams do TF. All you need is one good nude shot. If you're submitting to any company who shoots nude girls, they DO NOT want pro photos, they want some snapshots. I'm consistently sending out cell phone pics to companies. That is asked for way more often than pro shots. Then again, I work in the real world of modeling and not MM's imaginary world. So, I guess I don't know how it works

I think it is great that you book work through Hustler and other companies.  And I apologize if I offended you for thinking that's what you would charge GWCs. Many playboy-credited models on here, hit the GWC market hard. So, that will still be there for you, someday.

Ashley Graham wrote:

I make 800 or more almost every shoot I do

Yep I can see why.

Carle Photography wrote:
30.00 an hour to pay for rent in LA, CA is not the same as 30.00 an hour to pay for rent in Socorro, New Mexico.

Also you have to understand that while you are paying 30 an hour the model must work on average 3 hours unpaid for each hour paid on camera.

Sure you get models while paying 30.00/hr, but a very business savvy model will find the clients that pay much much more.

I have to disagree.  $30 is the same in both places, it's the rent that differs.  And $30 an hour is decent money.  Where I live, $10 an hour is decent money.

I do pay travel, albeit at a lesser rate than $30/her, if the model has to come to me.  But I have no unpaid time for models.  Well, I suppose if packing up outfits to come to the shoot counts, then I don't pay for that if the travel doesn't cover it.

I agree that people will pay rates those high.  I suggest to many models I meet that they should ask for rates like that because some people will pay it.  I won't though.  The highest I've paid is $50 an hour, for porn, and I've only paid for porn once, back when I wanted to find out what those kinds of pictures were like.

Schlake wrote:

I have to disagree.  $30 is the same in both places, it's the rent that differs.  And $30 an hour is decent money.  Where I live, $10 an hour is decent money.

I do pay travel, albeit at a lesser rate than $30/her, if the model has to come to me.  But I have no unpaid time for models.  Well, I suppose if packing up outfits to come to the shoot counts, then I don't pay for that if the travel doesn't cover it.

I agree that people will pay rates those high.  I suggest to many models I meet that they should ask for rates like that because some people will pay it.  I won't though.  The highest I've paid is $50 an hour, for porn, and I've only paid for porn once, back when I wanted to find out what those kinds of pictures were like.

30/hour is decent money for a 9-5 Monday thru Friday with bennies

30/hour for 2 hours, sometimes, plus travel plus expenses ain't squat.

Schlake wrote:

I have to disagree.  $30 is the same in both places, it's the rent that differs.  And $30 an hour is decent money.  Where I live, $10 an hour is decent money.

I do pay travel, albeit at a lesser rate than $30/her, if the model has to come to me.  But I have no unpaid time for models.  Well, I suppose if packing up outfits to come to the shoot counts, then I don't pay for that if the travel doesn't cover it.

I agree that people will pay rates those high.  I suggest to many models I meet that they should ask for rates like that because some people will pay it.  I won't though.  The highest I've paid is $50 an hour, for porn, and I've only paid for porn once, back when I wanted to find out what those kinds of pictures were like.

+1. Here in my area (at least in my expierence) $30-$50hr is pretty typical. Anything over $50hr is going to be for porn or a GWC that doesn't know (or care) what the going rates are. All they care about is getting a naked girl in front of them.

Schlake wrote:
And $30 an hour is decent money.  Where I live, $10 an hour is decent money.

You can state that 30/hr or even 10/hr is "decent money".

Decent for you maybe, but to the person who regularly bills 150/hr ....

It might be more than decent to the person who bills 7.25/hr

Even where you live there will be people billing much much more than 30/hr for their services. Maybe they are MD.s, maybe they are hookers, maybe they are welders, maybe they are mid level managers.

Caitin Bre wrote:

Plenty.

Could you post some of your 800 shots. I'm curious to know what makes photographers pay that sort of money.