|
Forums >
Digital Art and Retouching >
Are Before and Afters Tacky?
Those who maintain that it is naive to engage a retoucher who doesn't show impressive B&A samples in his/her portfolio are implying that it is fine to go ahead and engage a retoucher who does. This is in itself an example of naivety. Reputation is a more reliable guide to what you are likely to get than Before/After examples contrived with the express purpose of demonstrating how clever the retoucher is. But ultimately the only reliable way of assessing the ability of a retoucher is to have some work done by them. Mar 29 14 02:01 am Link I am a strong believer in them, its important to show your skills. Having said that they need to be good afters and presented well. Just having a side by side IS a little tacky in this day and age, something a little animated will get a better review. I dont get a lot of hits on my site but most that I send there come back with some work for me... http://garyalanretouching.com/before-and-after/ Mar 29 14 03:28 am Link Fred Greissing wrote: Agree! This is the first year I am looking for the services of someone(s) with advance retouching skills for my prints. I like a team approach when tackling the challenges of creating a vision. I would hope photogs remember to recognize them in the credits - that shows professionalism. Mar 29 14 04:20 am Link The before image in my opinion is completely unnecessary. I rather see the final images and skip the rest. Mar 29 14 04:54 am Link Not marketing to your clients can and does cost you money. A retoucher in this thread that does have B&A's and believes in customer service just gained me as a client. To all those that refuse to listen to what their clients want, good job, now you have more time to participate on MM.  Mar 29 14 01:05 pm Link bump Mar 29 14 01:39 pm Link Double edged sword. I've seen before/afters that speak well to the skills of the retoucher. I've also seen before/afters that do an excellent job of making the 'retoucher' just look like a person who discovered where exposure/contrast/white balance sliders are, and that's it. Mar 29 14 01:44 pm Link Very interesting discussion! I had no idea people were so strongly on one side or the other. But it's definitely helped me decide what I think is best for my portfolio after being on the fence for so long. Just for some fun, I gathered some statistical data based on everyone's general opinion. Below is a chart I made with my results.  So essentially, photographers clearly "win" this debate in my opinion. Photographers are who we retouchers are working for, and they want to see Before and Afters. Interestingly, the ones who find it tacky, by majority, were Retouchers and other digital artists. I think I'm going to start uploading a few Before and Afters for images I feel they are useful. But I don't think I'm going to let them dominate my portfolio either. With so many photographers interested in Before and Afters, it seems silly to not upload any. I have plenty on my DeviantArt, but I'll probably put some here too to avoid unnecessary extra clicks. Mar 29 14 03:39 pm Link ArtistryImage wrote: I imagine you are taking about B&A makeup. But that is totally different to retouching. Mar 29 14 11:54 pm Link J Strath wrote: Mar 29 14 11:54 pm Link J Strath wrote: I just looked at your port and with the additions of a few B&A's I now have a much better idea of what you can do and would feel comfortable sending you work. Thank you! Mar 30 14 01:16 am Link -The Dave- wrote: Awesome! Thank you! Mar 30 14 05:38 am Link J Strath wrote: Yep! To all of you other Retouchers and Digital Artists who think it's Tacky.....here is the biggest reason to change your mind. P.S. add another to the list who think they are helpful. Apr 05 14 05:19 pm Link I think 3-5 samples of before and afters that clearly demonstrate your skills are an asset to your portfolio. And this isn't just for skin work, as skills in products, and heavy composites are showed off well with before and afters. I have work as I'm sure many here do, that you wouldn't know if there was a before if they never showed it to you. Those tend to be stronger exhibitions of skill when shown together with a "before". It's also extremely rare to get into any retouching studio, at least here in NY without a proper representation of B&A's. So that must account for something. At the end of the day, it's personal preference really, if your brand and portfolio are strong enough to stand on their own with jobs flowing in, then don't. Either way, I believe they are a great way to put a client at ease for the services they are able to receive. Apr 30 14 12:46 am Link If you're looking to get hired by photographers it is vital. To give one example. Clothes. I need to see if you change the colour of the clothes. I only want to bring up what is necessary to bring up based on the portfolio and the work desired. I also want to see if your general approach is like a mask for the face where the graduation of tone and makeup may be depleted in favour of an overall tone. That's how before and afters help. How do you start off and is your finish always the same. Yes, I can tell your style but I need to see if you work with a wide variety of images. How do you handle locations? Are you good at taking a better expression on a face and swapping heads from one photo to another. Soon I'm doing a product shoot for a company that is expanding its marketing. Can you really do great effect work and quickly? Composites? If the photographer does the compositing are you good at putting shadows in? I don't want to try and figure this out. Someone wrote, do you show your studio? if it is necessary photographers will do so. And often if they have one they may show it on the website. The ability to shoot cars in studio. It helps them rent to others. I show clients original images, sometimes in camera because it creates enormous confidence in my ability to shoot. I also show how I retouch at times. It helps get work, and I have been paid for retouching work and this has led to: commercial work. On MM where a lot of your clients will be photographers put B/As in, please. Apr 30 14 01:33 am Link I thought it might be tacky. But learned that people do want to see them. Apr 30 14 07:25 am Link If I'm shopping for retouch I definitely want to see before and after - at least a few. If you don't have some up I'm going to move on to someone who does. Of course you should have the photographer's permission to show his/her work -- whether as a before or the finished product. BTW, I don't much care about you fixing the photographer's mistakes - I'm not going to be sending you that kind of job. I care about what you can do with the subject and background. (Wouldn't hurt at all to show your skill at clipping paths and background replacement.) Apr 30 14 07:53 am Link v i k t o r wrote: If this got me business then yes. Apr 30 14 09:40 am Link Its hard to tell if the retoucher started off with the best lit, highest quality, large file or not. Sometimes the originals are pretty high quality to begin with and dont require too much attention. There are other times when the retoucher really has to do some creative and fancy work to bring up the level of an image and make it look great...thats when I really love to see the before and afters! You can show 5 or 6 of your high end submissions...but I always like to see what a retoucher does with an obvious low to medium quality submission...it often best shows me the skill level of the retoucher. May 01 14 08:14 pm Link I actual need a good retoucher. Sometimes if you work wit a not so experienced photographer you don't get the lighting and highlights you were looking for. Hey anyone in the Upstate New York area looking for some retouch work let me know ! Rez-associates.com May 07 14 11:58 am Link Bottom line is you need to be able to show what you can do, especially as a Retoucher (obviously). I personally like to use photographs that are already great, to show the photographer/agency/etc how much better I can highlight/promote their message. The only time it seems tacky to me is when you display your work and it's a low blow to the photographer. As a photographer I wouldn't allow another Retoucher to show that my work would suck if I didn't use them. ...just my two cents. May 07 14 12:28 pm Link J O H N A L L A N wrote: I agree. I would like to see them, but they don't need to be in the portfolio. Give me a link to see them on your blog or send them to me upon request and I'm good to go. May 08 14 09:18 am Link v i k t o r wrote: On a blog, sure. I have no problem with BTS shots or video on a blog. A BTS folder on a Facebook fan page is fine, too. But, in my book or online portfolio? No way. There's not a snow drifts chance in hell! May 08 14 09:24 am Link DaeNaturals wrote: +1,000. As someone just look at images it might be tacky, but for someone shopping for services it can be a great persuader. I wouldn't necessarily highlight it on my website but I do have a section of before's and after's in terms of styling, makeup and digital manipulation to show the client what they can expect. v i k t o r wrote: Probably not that in-depth and technical, but depending on your market it could be very helpful. As a photographer marketing to non-models, I have before and after's on my website via my services page. It's small and I don't advertise it, but if someone reads through they can click on the before and afters and see what they can expect. Especially since my fantasy work that deals heavily with Photoshop - they'll want to know what they can expect in the final when a studio or location setting is muted. May 08 14 09:37 am Link I can't afford the person, and forgot who they are (sorry), but I was looking through their portfolio and noticed it was full of examples of a simple studio image being put into different backgrounds. Their work was well done, and it was a delight to look through it. If it wasn't for the before and afters I wouldn't have appreciated it as much as I did. So off the top of my head, imo: I want to see before and after shots of things I either can't do or normally don't do. I want to see a few before and after shots for normal work to see if the person is starting with an awesome file and just taking a pimple out or if they are doing a lot of work - and also to show they know what they are doing. I do not want to see shots that are simple or something I can do - unless the intent is to get very simple retouching work at cheap rates. Andrew Thomas Evans www.andrewthomasevans.com May 08 14 10:37 am Link My suggestion to all young retouchers is to have Before/After folder in portfolio. Simply that is the best way to show your skills to potential client. You can have maybe one page for that on your web site or page "Making Of" however you want . Sending your potential clients to see your B/A folders on some blogs or other web pages is not professional. This is very important if you work other genres of retouching ( not only beauty retouching) . With before and after folder client will feel more comfortable to see what you can do with files , and you can avoid potential questions about free test samples etc. Personally, very often when I have tight deadlines with my team , I hire freelance retouchers , and I contact only retouchers which have B/A folders on their web sites . Because when I see B/A samples I can immediately see what freelance retouchers can make with files and which skills and experience they have with complex advertising retouching . There is no time to discuss through emails with retouchers "what they can do or what they can not do and if they are comfortable to work in other genres or not " , or to wait on their samples which they want to make. Simply, quick view on their web sites and B/A folder is enough . Hope this helped, Best, ST May 08 14 12:18 pm Link ST Retouch wrote: Who was suggesting some random blog or other website? I don't believe any of us who suggested posting before and after shots on your blog were referring to some random blog located elsewhere on the net. I know that I was referring to the blog on your professional website, which happens to be absolutely no different than "one page for that on your website." May 08 14 02:03 pm Link I am answering this thread that said the same thing, in the same way I answered the other one. I like before and afters, I have a few in my MM portfolio. They show what I can do, and show what the camera was unable to show, (because of it's lower dynamic range). I can't imagine anyone having a problem with them. I won't even try to guess why they do. -Don May 08 14 02:15 pm Link Nothing new from me, just more grist for the mill, I enjoy Before and After shots, if nothing else, they can leave me a little in awe at what a really good retoucher does. But while B&A shots are helpful, I wouldn't say they are mandatory. I know what people look like before retouching and I know what I can do myself. So when I look at a portfolio and see photographs that blow away my own very, very modest retouching ability, I know that retoucher has talent even without seeing a before shot. May 08 14 03:28 pm Link Gary Alan wrote: Looked at your site, the Before and After presentation blew me away, very elegant, beautifully done. May 08 14 03:31 pm Link James Ogilvie wrote: Very well said James. Jun 12 14 06:16 am Link Just make sure the "Afters" look better than the "Befores". I've seen this on a few occasions. Jun 12 14 06:38 am Link James Ogilvie wrote: / Jun 12 14 06:47 am Link I'd like to toss my two cents in.. Although this MM profile I have is my photography, I actually (currently) work at a production house as a full time retoucher, and I work freelance for various companies & boutiques across the U.S. If you are ever trying to get good retouching jobs aka paying ones.. they will ALWAYS ask to see before and afters. I cant think of one client I've ever approached that has not wanted to see that. I dont think the entire portfolio should be b&a but you definitely need a good, solid 3-5 examples in your port. It's pretty crucial when you are trying to book with clients. And anyone who says its tacky or trashy, well, I'm sorry, but thats just stupid, and a bad move. You just need to approach the b&a in a classy way. (The best b&a portfolios I have ever see have a rollover. Its graceful and classy- It shows the retouched image first, and upon rollover, the before.) Jun 12 14 12:43 pm Link |
