MelissaAnn  wrote:
Would this replace all of the Mentor programs?

No, the intent is that this be an adjunct to them, targeted more toward the newbie trying to find their way around MM.  Even so, there is nothing to keep a member at any stage of his or her experience to avail him/herself of the project. 

For example, I might ask you to be my big buddy and help me improve my portfolio and initial inquiry letter to make it more appealing to models.

The main thing that we, or at least I, am hoping for is a lessening of the feeling that we are two or three or four warring camps here.  With more emphasis on the concept that as members we are each responsible for our own actions and to each other, maybe we can get MM back to being as much fun and as helpful as it used to be.

jesse paulk wrote:
if im a creeper, can i too be a big buddy? how are they vetted?

Some of us have been discussing that very question.  Personally, I've always advocated baseball bats and knucks in the alley out back, but my colleagues tell me that I'll have to stop coddling them.

Basically this is a member-to-member project, roughly similar to a casting call or an availability notice, so the same standards prevail as in any other member-to-member activity, and of course, the same TOS penalties apply.

Rays Fine Art wrote:

No, the intent is that this be an adjunct to them, targeted more toward the newbie trying to find their way around MM.  Even so, there is nothing to keep a member at any stage of his or her experience to avail him/herself of the project. 

For example, I might ask you to be my big buddy and help me improve my portfolio and initial inquiry letter to make it more appealing to models.

The main thing that we, or at least I, am hoping for is a lessening of the feeling that we are two or three or four warring camps here.  With more emphasis on the concept that as members we are each responsible for our own actions and to each other, maybe we can get MM back to being as much fun and as helpful as it used to be.

Thanks Ray, I think it's a great idea. 

Greg Knoll wrote:
I love this idea.

Retouchers are allowed, right? I figure we fall into the "what have you" category.

Yesh, they most certainly are.

K I C K H A M wrote:

Yesh, they most certainly are.

Thank you.

Revenge Photography wrote:
Great idea.

Is it only open to newbies... I'd really like someone to weed out my port.. I hate doing it

The base intent is to help newbies get comfortable in MM, but on the theory that no matter how long we may have been around we all have something to learn from someone who knows a little more than we do, I certainly see no reason why an experienced member could not benefit from it as well.

It is whatever the parties involved make it.  In theory the little buddy picks out a big buddy who is more knowledgeable/experienced in one or more areas and they communicate privately back and forth.  If peer-to-peer works, (and it might well do so), that's great as well.  Among other things it can be an opportunity to get a one-on one port evaluation by someone whose opinion you value, but without the  smarmy comments that sometimes pop up in the critique forums.

The request form is here https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st18900897 and the Big Buddies who have signed up start immediately below.  Look through and if you think someone there could help you send him/her a request.  And while you're there, by all means offer your services as well.

Flex Photography wrote:
I'm already a member of THE LIST, and have been helping newbie models.
Recent comments by some about photographers giving advice, is making me question if I should continue.

I'm on the 3rd List and the problems that the 3rd list has had for the past couple of years is what led me to start this thread.

As I see it, THE LIST, the 3rd List and the Big Buddy list offer slightly different approaches to a need felt throughout MM, that of helping newbies, most of whom come here carrying large bundles of misinformation, settle in and become productive members of the community.

Speaking just for myself, and speaking both as a model and a photographer, I think that much of the recent blow-up was at least partially a result of both photographers and models clinging to some of that misinformation and the attendant attitudes.  Quite frankly the complaint on the models' side is not so much about photographers giving advice, but about photographers giving bad advice and doing so in an insulting way.  And if you read some, and I emphasize the word some, of the comments made in the Model Colloquy, you have to agree that they have a point.  Then to top it off, there are those who really don't give a damn about modeling or photography, but hang around fanning the flames whenever a flame-war breaks out.  In my experience, models generally don't object to advice and help, but they do object to being minimalized and talked down to.
     Which is a long way around your question.  I don't think that the recent brouhaha is a reason to stop helping new models through any or all of these channels.  On the contrary, it is all the more reason to offer that help to those that need and want it.  We are all very much in this thing together.  Ego-tripping, misogyny and misandry have no place here and  I think at any rate, that the only way to wipe them out is to help new members develop the social skills that make for a good experience.
     Holding out a welcoming and truly helpful hand is a good start on accomplishing that.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
The lists are dead in my area, its not a well maintained system. How would this fare any better?

The lists are structured to have a "list" that is updated and maintained by an individual and if that individual dies, leaves, or is simply overwhelmed by life, as happened with the 3rd list, no one else could edit that list.  It's a structural and programming problem, as I understand it.  The Buddy "list" on the other hand, has no list so no list maintenance is required.  It's just a bulletin board such as you see in some supermarkets where people can post their availability to help and/or ask for help from the posters.  If a Big Buddy changes his mind, he can simply edit or delete his original post.

As to the lists being dead in your area, it's my understanding that the 2nd List (Photography), and the 5th List (Makeup) as well as THE LIST are functioning and I believe that, even as we speak, steps are under way to get the 3rd list back on its feet.  On the other hand, the Big Buddies are not locale-specific, which I think is a major strength. 
     Ultimately whether or not any member-run volunteer effort will be successful in any geographic area is a question that can be decided only by the members in that area.  If the area produces volunteers to maintain the effort, whatever the effort might be, then the effort will succeed.  And if not, then it will not.
     Perhaps you are the very person to make them work in your area.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Jennifer Haggerty wrote:
Will this thread be the only location new members can find buddies on? I understand that the first thing most newbies will do is start posting questions in the forums which might lead older members to grow more and more aggressive in their responses, "Get with a buddy! Why are you failing so hard??"

Could there be a welcome message (if there isn't one already) or a section on the layout with buddy profile avatars that will grab their attention? I say using an avatar to readily connect the newbie with someone who's style is similar to theirs, "That person has a implied nude for an avie, maybe they can help me with my boudoir questions" or "That person is totally Alt! They'll understand where I'm coming from with these concerns."

Being the visual people we are and with so much amazing information being readily available as might overwhelm someone who's new could this help?

That's part of what the revamped 3rd list will, I'm sure, address.

As far as the Big Buddy project, one part of the goal is to make the list self-maintaining, with no formal list that can become outdated.  Another is to encourage newbies to investigate on their own and to realize that this is a multifaceted activity in which one is likely to learn as much, and often more, from people that have different interests and skills than those just like one's self.  That's the main reason for making it necessary for the newbie to proactively request help of an individual Big Buddy, rather than throw out a generalized "I need help" request a la the lists.

Rays Fine Art wrote:

That's part of what the revamped 3rd list will, I'm sure, address.

As far as the Big Buddy project, one part of the goal is to make the list self-maintaining, with no formal list that can become outdated.  Another is to encourage newbies to investigate on their own and to realize that this is a multifaceted activity in which one is likely to learn as much, and often more, from people that have different interests and skills than those just like one's self.  That's the main reason for making it necessary for the newbie to proactively request help of an individual Big Buddy, rather than throw out a generalized "I need help" request a la the lists.

But don't they do that already as evidence by the posts in the Newbie, General and Off-Topic forums? I know that it would ideal for them to take initiative and investigate and discover the buddy list, but as what we know of human practice that they won't and their first action is to post 5 new topics of inquiries covered dozens of time over and oftentimes their social ineptness opens them to attack or perceived negativity on the forums which causes them to shut up and run the other direction.

(Not at all trying to be a pain in a$$, really trying to work with this new system and address concerns.)

Rays Fine Art wrote:
That's part of what the revamped 3rd list will, I'm sure, address.

As far as the Big Buddy project, one part of the goal is to make the list self-maintaining, with no formal list that can become outdated.  Another is to encourage newbies to investigate on their own and to realize that this is a multifaceted activity in which one is likely to learn as much, and often more, from people that have different interests and skills than those just like one's self.  That's the main reason for making it necessary for the newbie to proactively request help of an individual Big Buddy, rather than throw out a generalized "I need help" request a la the lists.

Jennifer Haggerty wrote:
But don't they do that already as evidence by the posts in the Newbie, General and Off-Topic forums? I know that it would ideal for them to take initiative and investigate and discover the buddy list, but as what we know of human practice that they won't and their first action is to post 5 new topics of inquiries covered dozens of time over and oftentimes their social ineptness opens them to attack or perceived negativity on the forums which causes them to shut up and run the other direction.

(Not at all trying to be a pain in a$$, really trying to work with this new system and address concerns.)

Sorry for the delay in responding--It's been a busy summer, unfortunately mostly in other area.
Once again, the purpose is to have an additional opportunity, not a replacement for anything. It is quite possible, for example for a newbie (or an old-bie for that matter) to throw a question out to the general membership, get a bunch of conflicting responses, and come back to his or her Big Buddy for help in sorting them out and deciding which responses truly address the question and which ones don't.  Another scenario might be a model requesting a critique and getting back a diatribe on the photographic, rather than the modeling techniques in the picture.  The Big Buddy's role here might be to clarify for the model where the difference lies.  In this case, an opportunity for the Big Buddy to correct the flaws that crop up in the forums from time to time.

There's an old saying that "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."  What's left unsaid is that if you lead several horses to water some will drink and others won't.  If you try to force all of them to drink, you're likely to be torn apart because some will go ahead and drink while others will take off for another watering hole, having spotted the fact that some jackass has fouled this one.  There are many watering holes on MM.  We really can't keep them all clean all the time--too little time and too many jackasses. 
     The best we can do is to help the smarter ones to learn to spot the better watering holes and congregate there.

All IMHO as always, of course.