descending chain wrote:
If your goal is to fire the strobe at the apex of the leap, then I think you'll have better luck hand-firing than using a timer.  Perhaps get an assistant to start the exposure so you can devote full attention to timing the flash during the jump, or vice-versa.

If you don't have an assistant I often use a light meter to manually fire strobes. You can hit the shutter  release with one thumb and the light meter with the other, this would allow you to keep your eyes on the subject.

descending chain wrote:
If your goal is to fire the strobe at the apex of the leap, then I think you'll have better luck hand-firing than using a timer.  Perhaps get an assistant to start the exposure so you can devote full attention to timing the flash during the jump, or vice-versa.

I was afraid that this would be the easiest way.
With age, my timing and reflexes leave a lot to be desired.

I suppose set camera to 2 sec exposure.
Fire Einstein with PCB trigger, at the right moment.
Controlling the exposures will be fun...not.

Herman Surkis wrote:
I was afraid that this would be the easiest way.
With age, my timing and reflexes leave a lot to be desired.

Think of it as if firing the strobe were clicking the shutter in a normal photo of a leap.  If you can do the normal shot, you can do this.  Our brains are really wired for this type of eye-motor coordination.  Timing of the opening of the shutter for the jump is much less critical.  I'm sure you'll do just fine with it, but an assistant to handle the camera would really help free you up to concentrate only on the leap.  Or if you're very worried about your reflexes, let the young assistant who is very possibly a gamer handle the strobe.  Either way you're sure to get some nice shots.

Herman Surkis wrote:
I was afraid that this would be the easiest way.
With age, my timing and reflexes leave a lot to be desired.

I suppose set camera to 2 sec exposure.
Fire Einstein with PCB trigger, at the right moment.
Controlling the exposures will be fun...not.

I don't entirely accept this, Herman. If the results will be great when it works, the process may be sort of repetitive and haphazard but do you care? You got a cool result.

Herman Surkis wrote:
exposure.

I think this may have been asked before, but I cannot find it.

I do not want front or rear curtain, but mid curtain.

Say at the 1sec mark of a 2 sec exposure.

Without complicated timers etc.

My reflexes are not good enough to manually trigger the lights at the half point.

Want to capture a leap with continuous lights plus midpoint frozen with flash.

Manually trigger flash is on option.

Two cameras, one for the actual long exposure, and the second on rear curtain to trigger the flash.

And then there is simply compositing.

Not sure I have given enough information.

You haven't asked a specific question, though it seems like the question is how to get a flash to go off at the one second mark during a two second exposure.

My suggestion, would be two cameras, one set without a flash and the other a 1 second exposure, set to second curtain and release the shutters at the same time.

Except, you seem to have that answer in your post, so it seems like you know what to do.


I'd prefer compositing as a last resort because I find it to be more work and  for something like this, might be hard to recreate the exact look.

However, one advantage with compositing would be that you could shoot the flash exposure with a wider aperture. Most likely that will result in a lower power, shorter flash duration and do a better job freezing motion.

It might even be worth considering HSS.



One other thing you could do is set the second camera to an extremely long exposure, or even a bulb exposure. Set its flash to to stroboscopic mode at a rate of 1 flash every 2 seconds. Start that and get a feel for the timing so the subject can know when they need to be in mid air and you get a feel for the half way point between flashes which would be when you'd release the shutter on the camera that's capturing the exposure.

Herman Surkis wrote:
exposure.

I think this may have been asked before, but I cannot find it.

I do not want front or rear curtain, but mid curtain.

Say at the 1sec mark of a 2 sec exposure.

Without complicated timers etc.

My reflexes are not good enough to manually trigger the lights at the half point.

Want to capture a leap with continuous lights plus midpoint frozen with flash.

Manually trigger flash is on option.

Two cameras, one for the actual long exposure, and the second on rear curtain to trigger the flash.

And then there is simply compositing.

Not sure I have given enough information.

Herman Surkis wrote:
I was afraid that this would be the easiest way.
With age, my timing and reflexes leave a lot to be desired.

I suppose set camera to 2 sec exposure.
Fire Einstein with PCB trigger, at the right moment.
Controlling the exposures will be fun...not.

2 cameras and no compositeing..

1 camera will not be taking a photo, it will just be for timing when the flash fires.

Set both cameras to be fired from a trigger of some sort, but only one camera, the one with the proper overall exposure time needs to be pointed at the subject.

The second camera, set to the desired delay time for the flash, put your PCB trigger on that with rear-curtain sync.

Say you set 10 sec on main camera, and you can set the "timer" camera to 2, 4, 5, whatever you want.

No reason to combine pics, only one camera is taking the photo... the other is timing when the flash fires, as a delay period from when you trip the shutter on both.

There are also probably laser triggers so that when your subject breaks a beam the flash fires, but you may need to just fire the flash manually by pressing the test button on your PCB remote at the proper time.

BillyVegas wrote:
Hm... I always thought that in terms of affecting the exposure it doesn't matter when the strobe would fire.  For example, for a 30 second shutter speed.. If you fire a strobe once at 1 second, or 15 seconds, or 29 seconds the exposure would be exactly the same since it takes an average of the light during the entire length of the shutter.  Of course there's other reasons to want a strobe to fire in the middle, but is that not correct?

That would all depend on if there is movement, and in this case there is.
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Ken Warren Photography wrote:

I don't entirely accept this, Herman. If the results will be great when it works, the process may be sort of repetitive and haphazard but do you care? You got a cool result.

Well yeah, if I get a cool result.

Like the assistant idea, if I could find one.

Ok, so the exposure will actually only be a matter of balancing the Fresnel lights and the strobe. Doable, if I take my time.

3sec exposure with the Fresnel's and balance the Einstein to match. Tell the dancer to start his move when he hears the shutter click, and I fire the Einstein when he reaches peak. Will do this Greenfield style, not looking through the viewfinder.

The only problem with doing this with one of the better male dancers in this town, is that if it works well it opens more doors, but if it fails...

Did I happen to mention that I was planning on a classical Hollywood/Film Noir style and lighting?

realistgva wrote:
If you really want that there is an option but it will not not cheap.

Get 2 cameras connect then to the same trigger, pocket wizard, triggertrap...
Set canm1to 2s exposure no flash or strove attached. 2nd camera with strove flash attached reward curtain 1 second exposure.

Hit the trigger and let the magic unfold.

Actually I think I may have mentioned similar and it could very well work. Have the extra camera and have the extra receivers.

Can be done with YN's and with out the trigger trap.

But truth be told, I think the suggestions to manually trigger the flash may be better. In retrospect there is no way to know if the dancer will peak at the mid-point of the exposure or somewhere in-between.

Lots of good ideas.
And neat ideas for stuff that may require more precise timing.
As tends to happen here, far too often, I not only get an answer to my question, but ideas for other stuff.

Of course if all else fails there is always two exposures and then blend in PS. But whats the fun in that?

I should also mention, that a major benefit of asking here is similar to thinking it out loud, or talking it out with people who actually know what they are talking about. I would be wasting my time asking many of the locals, and with some of the others, I would see similar on their FB page, before I even got a chance to try it out. Has not happened to me (close) but has happened to a friend.

Herman Surkis wrote:

Well yeah, if I get a cool result.

Like the assistant idea, if I could find one.

Ok, so the exposure will actually only be a matter of balancing the Fresnel lights and the strobe. Doable, if I take my time.

3sec exposure with the Fresnel's and balance the Einstein to match. Tell the dancer to start his move when he hears the shutter click, and I fire the Einstein when he reaches peak. Will do this Greenfield style, not looking through the viewfinder.

The only problem with doing this with one of the better male dancers in this town, is that if it works well it opens more doors, but if it fails...

Did I happen to mention that I was planning on a classical Hollywood/Film Noir style and lighting?

If I may offer one suggestion:

If at all possible, shoot tethered. You may have to begin the motion that triggers the flash just before the peak of motion, due to small delays that will exist all through the system, and shooting tethered will let you figure that out.

Ken Warren Photography wrote:

If I may offer one suggestion:

If at all possible, shoot tethered. You may have to begin the motion that triggers the flash just before the peak of motion, due to small delays that will exist all through the system, and shooting tethered will let you figure that out.

Shooting tethered is an excellent suggestion.
And if you don't mind one more idea, try a couple before and after peak to see if the asymmetry sings.

Mike Collins wrote:
So basically what you are doing is dragging the shutter and popping the flash in the middle of the exposure?  This will give you an image where your subject is blurred before and after the flash goes off with the subject frozen in the middle of the blur.  Is that what your after?  Sounds pretty straight forward.  Or I'm I missing something?  I'm not getting the use or need of two cameras thing.

Mike in essence that is what I will be doing.
My OP was regarding getting the flash to go off right in the middle of the exposure, say 2sec mark of a 3sec exposure. However as has been pointed out I would be best to fire the flash manually.

Trying to get around my old reflexes and timing, but no way around it. There is no way to know that the peak will be at the mid-point of the exposure, that will have to be a visual judgement call.

However lots of good ideas for when I need precise and repeatable flash firing.

I have tested burst mode, the Einsteins will do 8fps at 1/4 power, but the look is totally different.

In fact this is giving me ideas for future shoots where the images are similar but not the same.

Herman Surkis wrote:

Mike in essence that is what I will be doing.
My OP was regarding getting the flash to go off right in the middle of the exposure, say 2sec mark of a 3sec exposure. However as has been pointed out I would be best to fire the flash manually.

Trying to get around my old reflexes and timing, but no way around it. There is no way to know that the peak will be at the mid-point of the exposure, that will have to be a visual judgement call.

However lots of good ideas for when I need precise and repeatable flash firing.

I have tested burst mode, the Einsteins will do 8fps at 1/4 power, but the look is totally different.

In fact this is giving me ideas for future shoots where the images are similar but not the same.

Maybe consider getting a metronome or finding music that's at 60/90/120bpm  the dancer will have no problem timing the jump to hit the top at the 2nd second of a three second exposure if you start it on a down beat.

You might find it easier as well.

Michael Broughton wrote:
a laser trigger would do the trick.

That's what I was thinking.

http://www.adorama.com/CACLTLV5.html

Mercury Images wrote:
I'm sure they will work, but many of these suggestions seem overly complicated.

Put the camera on a tripod, plug in a remote shutter release, turn on live view and set the shutter to bulb.  Set the shutter speed to whatever you need.  Let the dancer say "GO" so that you don't have a lag due to communication.  Open the shutter on GO.  Hit the test button on your PW or other radio when they reach the apex.

Right?

Right.
or a variation.

All the responses to my OP have convinced me to go simple.

Some of complicated answers lead to a whole other type of shoot. Worth looking into.