Emily Danielle wrote:
Digital photography! It’s supposed to save time and money right?? And make the whole process easier, TFP/CD shoots, meaning no money is involved but the model gets a copy of the CD or photos from the shoot for his or her own use right? Well how long should it take for the model to get the CD?

Over a month ago now I went on a shoot with a MM photographer who calls himself professional, who said it would take two weeks for me to get the CD. Now it takes about 10 min to burn a CD, so two weeks sounded like a long time, but I said ok and was on my way. After 3 weeks and no mail I contacted him, he said he was “sorry he forgot.â€? Forgot... yes… he forgot, then he went on to say “I will write it on my calendar so I remember to send it.â€? Really… I don’t think he did because it has been over a month since the shoot and still no photos. I feel scammed. I traveled to work with the photographer who approached me, spent money on coming home from University, then more money on gas to travel to his small studio in MA. I worked with him for 3 hours, and for what? I have not yet gotten anything out of it. No photographs, nothing.

Has anyone else had this experience? How long should it take to get a CD from a shoot, REALLY? Sorry to rant but I feel as though I have been taken advantage of.

Well, priorities as someone mentioned.  He really could be swamped.  If he's using these images of you, then yeah, feel taken advantage of.  (Check his portfolio) But if they're not even up on his site, it's not like he's benefiting from the images either.  I actually had the worst thing happen to me a few months back. I shot with a model who traveled in from out of state (not specifically for the shoot, though) in godawful conditions (Murphy's Law ruled the day), we both worked hard for it, and Hurricane Katrina hit weeks later when I was resizing the images on the pc. And I LOST EVERY SINGLE IMAGE!!!  Model was pissed off (probably still is), and I'm pissed off because I worked hard too and I don't have a single image to show for it.  Sorry, getting off track. 
I sincerely hope it was something like my situation which is preventing your photographer from getting those images to you.  Because it gives us (photographers) a rotten name.  Just like when people call in sick at work and they're not really sick, and the people who really are sick get interrogated and hassled.  Karma, karma, karma.

-Jennifer Maria

EyeOnYouModels wrote:
Personally, I think two weeks is too long to wait, even considering the time it takes to edit them. I get the images edited and to the model in under 5 days without exception.

I agree that 5 days is a good time frame to deliver the images. I also go through the photos with the model just to confirm which images Ill tough up. However, I do have a policy of a maximun of 15 days. Sometimes Ill get several dozens of models in a short period of time that 5 days is just not possible to deliver the photos.

-Daniel

Semora wrote:
True. I guess it all depends on the prior agreement. I know i want my work/pix asap(i always bring a disk just in case).

That might be a little hard for me consider I don't own a laptop...yet.

But playing devil's advocate, do you work w/ photographers that don't give you every single solitary image? From seeing the stuff that some (not all) models post, I can see why they don't. In the past I've told models that they are for nonpublic posting, yet low & behold I see some of the rather awful outakes being posted on their port.

Depending on the experience level of the person that I work w/, I've been leaning that route lately.

Emily Danielle wrote:
Sorry to rant but I feel as though I have been taken advantage of.

Why be so quick to blame the photographer?  Perhaps you didn't live up to your end of the barter. 

There seems to be this feeling that just because a "model" shows up then they are deserving of images.  It is ultimately the decision of the photographer whether or not images are released and if model imaging presentation doesn't live up to the photographer standard of image release then they have every right to withhold the release of imaging.

By accepting TFP a person declaring themselves a model better perform like one.  If they don't, it is well within the right of the photographer to say, "I don't want images out there that reflect work with someone that didn't know what they were doing."

TFP is a barter.  The obligation is for both to perform to the standard set by the owner of the imaging.  That should be accepted, or the invitation to barter should not be accepted at all.

area291 wrote:

Why be so quick to blame the photographer?  Perhaps you didn't live up to your end of the barter. 

There seems to be this feeling that just because a "model" shows up then they are deserving of images.  It is ultimately the decision of the photographer whether or not images are released and if model imaging presentation doesn't live up to the photographer standard of image release then they have every right to withhold the release of imaging.

By accepting TFP a person declaring themselves a model better perform like one.  If they don't, it is well within the right of the photographer to say, "I don't want images out there that reflect work with someone that didn't know what they were doing."

TFP is a barter.  The obligation is for both to perform to the standard set by the owner of the imaging.  That should be accepted, or the invitation to barter should not be accepted at all.

Well said. I have had a couple TFP/TFCD as well as paid shoots come out all wrong. It just happens. When it comes to TFP/TFCD shoots, I obviously thought she was worth my time or I would not have wanted to work with her. If the TFP/TFCD shoot with her did not go well and I did not want the images used on my portfolio or hers, hardcopy or internet I would at least say let`s do one more shoot and see how that comes out but I do not in any way want these photographs out there.

Saryn Angel wrote:
I shoot anywhere from 70-150 sometimes 200 images per model. Many times I will touch up almost every shot and burn it to disk. I will only release the untouched images to certain models who I have seen the work they can do in photoshop.  I've seen images slaughtered by models... It's my artwork, I want the model to have the finished images, not the cold shots.

I have been one of those photographers who took ages to get images to a model. and believe me - It's cause I was lazy and didn't set aside the time to take care of things. OR I over booked. 

I have made it a policy to get a CD to models within 2 weeks.   I end up sitting in front of a computer touching up images (mostly just levels) all night at least twice a week.

I've been seriously considering setting up an FTP site. just for ease of getting images to models, and cause CD's are a pain, both in the fact that I go through them like mad and in that I have to make an effort to get to the post office. Not fun.

I don't think there is anything wrong with giving a model a link to download from.

done rambling...

I now have the models agree in the release that they do not edit the photographs. Like you say, it is my art.And to me, once someone else edits my art, it then becomes their art.  I only started this last year after seeing some shots of a model I worked with in her online portfolio that she had a friend edit with photoshop to the point where she looked like a plastic or wax  figure with no pores. I asked her about it and shes like, but dont you agree it looks even better? I said "no, if I had felt that looked good I would have done that in the copy I gave you. You worked with me because you liked my work. Then you go and have someone change my work? My name is attached to that work and everyone who sees your portfolio knows who did them. They are not seeing my style. They are seeing the style of your friend who re edited them."
She sees nothing wrong with it and still to this day has her friend re edit photos from other photographers. She is one I will not be working with anylonger. It`s a shame, she was fun and she is in my present MM portfolio.

Eric Foltz wrote:
I think all you photographers that think two weeks or more is okay need to go work as a PJ for a few months.

You will learn to quickly edit down your images to managable numbers and then optimize the one's you kept much quicker. Well, you'll either learn or you'll miss deadlines in which case you'll be fired. You need to work on your workflow and editing. After all, does any model really need 150 shots of her wearing the same outfit? Pick out the best of each pose/outfit and trash the rest.

I don't even have any commercial clients that will wait two weeks. One of the things alot of clients look for is quick turn around. If you can't provide it, they'll go find someone that can.

Eric Foltz

Most commercial clients just want one or two shots, though. Much different than a model who is doing TFP/TFCD with you in various outfits and styles for variety on her portfolio.

Paul Ferrara wrote:

That's a good approach.  Personally, I get pretty tired of hearing that it takes two weeks, four weeks, and longer for photographers to get these images out.  And on the same hand we have all these guys saying they don't use Photoshop.  Well, what the hell are they doing other than procrastinating?  I've had some models with godawful skin and it still took less than 15 minutes per image to retouch, resize and optimize for the web.  For the average model it takes me less than a minute or two per image.

Paul

I wish I had your skill.  It takes me about 2 hours just to cover dark hair on one arm.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Most commercial clients just want one or two shots, though. Much different than a model who is doing TFP/TFCD with you in various outfits and styles for variety on her portfolio.

No difference at all. The point I'm making is about workflow and I'll give you a couple of examples.

1. Shot a portrait and a wedding on the same day two weeks ago, exposed roughly 300 frames, within 24 hours both shoots were edited down to 150 keepers retouched, converted to B&W, etc.., and uploaded for them to buy prints. The wedding party had people on the east coast purchasing images the next day.

2. Had a commercial client redecorating their office and wanted 20 24x36" B&W prints of OC landmarks. Within 72hrs, I had gone through my files and got 12 shots scanned and ready for printing and shot 8 more at various locations, resized, converted and print prepped. All the prints were delivered within 1 week.

3. Shot two models last week exposing 300+ frames. Had them edited, touched up as necessary, resized and in the mail within 24 hours. If they want any additional retouching, they can email me with the file name and I'll take care of it. If I want to play around in PS and do something "artistic," I do it after I've sent her the images and email that one or two later.

Customer service is everything and fast turnaround is a big part of that. I shoot everything the way I shot as a PJ, I want it out so I can see it in the news the next day. You don't get the front page if your image doesn't make it to the paper for two weeks.

Eric Foltz

Eric Foltz wrote:
I think all you photographers that think two weeks or more is okay need to go work as a PJ for a few months.

I feel like an idiot. What's a PJ?

Farenell Photography wrote:

I feel like an idiot. What's a PJ?

Photojournalist.

Eric Foltz

Eric Foltz wrote:

Photojournalist.

Eric Foltz

Doit! I should've known that one.