Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Here is the deal.

Shoot is scheduled for 3:00pm.

I get home a little late, 3:15pm or so.

I call the model. She is about 15 minutes away. She tells me the MUA wants to make sure the shoot is happening and needs to call her. The MUA lives an hour away. I offer to call the MUA.

I call the MUA and she apologizes for not being on the way, but she wanted a final confirmation. Okay. No problem. She leaves and will arrive by 4:15 or so.

I call the model back and tell her the MUA is on her way.

I check my email.

An email from the model at 2:30pm asks to start the shoot at 6:00pm instead. But, she hadn't mentioned that on the phone, so I figured she was on her way.

At 4:30 the MUA shows up. No model.

The model calls. I tell her the MUA has arrived. The model again says she will be here soon.

The MUA and I start to get ready.

At 5:15 the model calls again. Says she will be there. I tell her okay, we've been waiting for an hour.

At 6:00 the MUA and I decide to cancel the shoot. As we are leaving out the door at 6:15, the model shows up.

I tell the model that the shoot is cancelled because I have other things to do that evening. (Which is true.)

The model asks, "Didn't you get my email saying I wanted to start at 6?"

"Um, yes, but you sent it 30 minutes before the shoot and in 3 phonecalls you said you'd be right here. That was 3 hours ago."

So, I'm sure at this point the model hates me and thinks I'm an asshole and won't work with me anymore. The question is, what do you think?

Am I at fault because I failed to confirm that she wanted to change the shoot time? Is she at fault because she never mentioned her desire to change the time during 3 different phonecalls?

I really felt bad for the MUA who drove an hour to get here. But, she had other errands to run too and couldn't stay.

Opinions?.......

never use her again ...i had the same thing happen once...(once) its been 2 yrs since
i have heard she very rarely gets work anymore...o maybe thats cuase i call the casting director afterwards i would never shoot with her again.i think so....lol

karma's a bitch

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Here is the deal.

Shoot is scheduled for 3:00pm.

I get home a little late, 3:15pm or so.

I call the model. She is about 15 minutes away. She tells me the MUA wants to make sure the shoot is happening and needs to call her. The MUA lives an hour away. I offer to call the MUA.

I call the MUA and she apologizes for not being on the way, but she wanted a final confirmation. Okay. No problem. She leaves and will arrive by 4:15 or so.

I call the model back and tell her the MUA is on her way.

I check my email.

An email from the model at 2:30pm asks to start the shoot at 6:00pm instead. But, she hadn't mentioned that on the phone, so I figured she was on her way.

At 4:30 the MUA shows up. No model.

The model calls. I tell her the MUA has arrived. The model again says she will be here soon.

The MUA and I start to get ready.

At 5:15 the model calls again. Says she will be there. I tell her okay, we've been waiting for an hour.

At 6:00 the MUA and I decide to cancel the shoot. As we are leaving out the door at 6:15, the model shows up.

I tell the model that the shoot is cancelled because I have other things to do that evening. (Which is true.)

The model asks, "Didn't you get my email saying I wanted to start at 6?"

"Um, yes, but you sent it 30 minutes before the shoot and in 3 phonecalls you said you'd be right here. That was 3 hours ago."

So, I'm sure at this point the model hates me and thinks I'm an asshole and won't work with me anymore. The question is, what do you think?

Am I at fault because I failed to confirm that she wanted to change the shoot time? Is she at fault because she never mentioned her desire to change the time during 3 different phonecalls?

I really felt bad for the MUA who drove an hour to get here. But, she had other errands to run too and couldn't stay.

Opinions?.......

No elaborate opinion, just funny how lack of communication can make a big mess! I feel bad for all three. I always state when, where, how, why and how much in all my phone conversations and emails. Glad she wasn't going to a big job interview!

Venus wrote:
The model, IMO, should have mentioned the time change on the PHONE before she sent you the e-mail.  And she confirmed 3 times that she was "on her way".  Meaning, to me, that she'll be there within half an hour.  I find it to be OKAY to be late to a shoot as long as there is communication and the photographer and everyone else involved is okay with it.  Besides, who cares if she thinks you're an asshole.  She's the one who showed up 3 hours late and expected you to just start shooting as soon as she got there.  Everybody has lives and time is too precious to waste.

I totally agree with Venus. It isnt your fault at all. If she wanted to change the time she should have told you over the phone or at least asked if you even got her email. What if you wouldnt have checked your email at all??? She was in the wrong and I wouldnt think twice about her or what she thinks about you.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Here is the deal.

Shoot is scheduled for 3:00pm.

I get home a little late, 3:15pm or so.

I call the model. She is about 15 minutes away. She tells me the MUA wants to make sure the shoot is happening and needs to call her. The MUA lives an hour away. I offer to call the MUA.

I call the MUA and she apologizes for not being on the way, but she wanted a final confirmation. Okay. No problem. She leaves and will arrive by 4:15 or so.

I call the model back and tell her the MUA is on her way.

I check my email.

An email from the model at 2:30pm asks to start the shoot at 6:00pm instead. But, she hadn't mentioned that on the phone, so I figured she was on her way.

At 4:30 the MUA shows up. No model.

The model calls. I tell her the MUA has arrived. The model again says she will be here soon.

The MUA and I start to get ready.

At 5:15 the model calls again. Says she will be there. I tell her okay, we've been waiting for an hour.

At 6:00 the MUA and I decide to cancel the shoot. As we are leaving out the door at 6:15, the model shows up.

I tell the model that the shoot is cancelled because I have other things to do that evening. (Which is true.)

The model asks, "Didn't you get my email saying I wanted to start at 6?"

"Um, yes, but you sent it 30 minutes before the shoot and in 3 phonecalls you said you'd be right here. That was 3 hours ago."

So, I'm sure at this point the model hates me and thinks I'm an asshole and won't work with me anymore. The question is, what do you think?

Am I at fault because I failed to confirm that she wanted to change the shoot time? Is she at fault because she never mentioned her desire to change the time during 3 different phonecalls?

I really felt bad for the MUA who drove an hour to get here. But, she had other errands to run too and couldn't stay.

Opinions?.......

If I were the model in the same situation, I would have made sure that you read the email and were aware that I needed to reschedule the time for 6pm, when I first spoke with you about contacting the MUA.  And I would not have said, "I am on my way", if I were not going to be there until atleast 6pm.

The email may have stood had the model not repeatedly stated, "I am on my way", each time you spoke with her. I feel bad for the MUA who drove so far to do her job and think the model should pay the MUA regardless.

But, flighty, stressed out or not, I would not work with the model again. Her behavior was not professional nor considerate of you or the MUA.

I have personally only had this happen to me once. I suggested we meet and discuss the possible shoot before we inked it in. I have been kinda crazy busy lately with everything, and explained that I needed to schedule the meet in downtown Atlanta
during the day, when I was less pressed for time. He agreed. He set up the meet  time and the cafe. I was there 10 minutes early. After 45 minutes, my call netted me ONLY voice mail. After an hour more of sitting and waiting without a callback, I left. He did not return the call until late the next day with an, "OOPS, I got busy and forgot the time." I accepted the "OOPS" explanation, but politely refused to reschedule. "OOPS" is not a justifiable cause or reason for no show, and it is NOT professional.

SBourriaux wrote:
I'm reaaly sorry to say that, but I do think that the organisation of the shooting was not really precise. When I organize a shooting, the day before I call everyone (MUA, hairstylist, model or Model Agency) to confirm that everyone will be at the right place at the right time.

I did do that. I called and emailed both the model and MUA on Saturday to confirm the time of 3:00pm on Sunday. Nevertheless, the MUA didn't leave for the shoot until I confirmed again on Sunday. The model sent an email at 2:30pm asking to reschedule, but didn't mention rescheduling on the phone before I spoke to the MUA, and I didn't read the email until after the MUA was already on her way.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I saw the fault lies with both of you but more on the model because she was misleading.  Your only fault was that after reading her e-mail, you should have mentioned it to her on the phone so that if she did confirm that was the intended time to show up, that'd have to cancel.

You just perfectly articulated why I feel bad about it and why I posted this thread in the first place.

I agree 100%. The second time I talked to the model, I should have said, "Hey, I just read your email saying you want to start at 6. What is up with that?"

The fact that I didn't do that is what is bothering me. An important lesson for me in not making assumptions.

But, here's the thing, I had NOT read that email when I told the model that the MUA was on her way. And the model never spoke up and said, "Oh, don't have her come yet. I can't be there for 3 more hours."

Naomi Jay wrote:
wow and I feel guilty if I am 10 minutes late lol

Well Naomi...you are a real 'professional' who takes what you do seriously...That is unfortunately not the attitude a lot of models have.

SBourriaux wrote:
I'm reaaly sorry to say that, but I do think that the organisation of the shooting was not really precise. When I organize a shooting, the day before I call everyone (MUA, hairstylist, model or Model Agency) to confirm that everyone will be at the right place at the right time.
You're not wrong, but you're not right too, you and the model have your own part of responsibility in what happened.

I agree 100%.

Effective communication is speaking in seventh grade terms, and doing so repetitively.

studio L wrote:

Effective communication is speaking in seventh grade terms, and doing so repetitively.

Could you explain what you are saying?

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
But, here's the thing, I had NOT read that email when I told the model that the MUA was on her way. And the model never spoke up and said, "Oh, don't have her come yet. I can't be there for 3 more hours."

And that's why she should have to pay the MUA or something.  As I wrote earlier, I've learned that on my way often means only that they are still planning on showing up...maybe.

Lapis wrote:
And, I would like to add that I feel being reliable has gotten me more jobs with good photographers...if you stand someone up, it does get around, especially if you do it alot.

Well, I never name names when things go bad. I just think it's rude. So I won't rat-out the model. I'll keep her anonymous.

I will say that the MUA was a great girl and had a great atitude and I look forward to the chance to work with her sometime. She was Ellen #32096 and I really think we'll do some cool shoots together eventually.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:

Lapis wrote:
And, I would like to add that I feel being reliable has gotten me more jobs with good photographers...if you stand someone up, it does get around, especially if you do it alot.

Well, I never name names when things go bad. I just think it's rude. So I won't rat-out the model. I'll keep her anonymous.

no, that is a good idea to never bad mouth someone...unless they have shit in your front lawn repeatedly. As was mentioned, there does seem to be some element of miscommunication here.

Lapis wrote:

Could you explain what you are saying?

The tip is from the book "The One Minute Manager", (highly recommended).

The comment means: "speak clearly (using simple language), repeat yourself often, assume nothing, and confirm that the listener has heard and understood your entire message".

Listen to pilots radioing a control tower...you'll get the idea. (smile)

Hartsoe wrote:
Do you ever think of making another schedule with her now or do just want this lesson rest in peace? Just curious...

Doubtful I will reschedule.

ILLIXIT wrote:
Why not wait another 15 minutes if prior to her showing up @ 615
you knew that shed be there around 6...
Going by the email you read after the calls but received before the appointment.

A valid question. The reason I was ready to cancel by 6:15 was because, despite her email saying she wanted to shoot at 6:00,  she told me on the phone at 3:15, 4:15 and 5:15 that she was 10 minutes away and she'd "be right there."

ILLIXIT wrote:
Did you inform the MUA of the email you received from her
where she states she wanted to reschedule

Yes. I told the MUA after the MUA was already on the road for about 40 minutes because I did not get check my email until she had already driven that far. Note the model did speak to me before I checked the email and I informed her that I would call the MUA and tell the MUA to start driving. Right then during that call, the model SHOULD have said, "Did you check your email, I need to reschedule for 6:00pm." The model did NOT do that. And at that point, I had not gotten her email. What the model DID say at that point was that she was 10 minutes away and she'd be at my place WAY before the MUA. So I had the MUA start her drive to the shoot.

ILLIXIT wrote:
If this was an issue of confusion...
why didnt you make another phone call and confirm what time she was actually arriving

Again, I did. The model spoke to me on the phone 3 times and never once mentioned she'd be there at 6. I didn't read her email until AFTER her first phonecall and during our first phonecall I told her I'd have the MUA start heading to the shoot. The model knew this and never said, "Don't cal the MUA now. I won't be there for 3 more hours."

ILLIXIT wrote:
Afterall shit happens, you were 15 minutes late for the original appointment...

You are right. And I do NOT get upset if someone is 15 minutes late. That's no problem. But in my opinion, she was 3 hours late. Keep in mind, yes, she emailed me to reschedule. But she sent that email at 2:30pm for a shoot that was to happen at 3:00.

You don't reschedule a shoot by 3 hours by email, 30 minutes before the original call time. That's just rude. And the question remains - why didn't she say something during our FIRST phonecall - when I hadn't even read her email yet.

StMarc wrote:
Yes, you were wrong. I can prove it logically.

1) You are a man.

2) She is a woman.

3) Therefore, you were wrong.

Good point. I should have known. Darla and her kind are always trouble.

StMarc wrote:
Yes, you were wrong. I can prove it logically.

1) You are a man.

2) She is a woman.

3) Therefore, you were wrong.

Glad I could help.

M

That depends.  If I understand women correctly,* if Eric is married, then his wife's position of being right supercedes all other women.  All we need to do is find out if his wife is aware of his position and has given approval of his position.  That would automatically make him right.

If he only has a girlfriend, I am less clear on the ruling though I suspect it may be the same as a marriage relationship.

If Eric is completely single and/or gay, then you are correct.



*Yes, I'm taking a huge risk to even suggest this as being possible.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Here is the deal.

Shoot is scheduled for 3:00pm.

I get home a little late, 3:15pm or so.

I call the model. She is about 15 minutes away. She tells me the MUA wants to make sure the shoot is happening and needs to call her. The MUA lives an hour away. I offer to call the MUA.

I call the MUA and she apologizes for not being on the way, but she wanted a final confirmation. Okay. No problem. She leaves and will arrive by 4:15 or so.

I call the model back and tell her the MUA is on her way.

I check my email.

An email from the model at 2:30pm asks to start the shoot at 6:00pm instead. But, she hadn't mentioned that on the phone, so I figured she was on her way.

At 4:30 the MUA shows up. No model.

The model calls. I tell her the MUA has arrived. The model again says she will be here soon.

The MUA and I start to get ready.

At 5:15 the model calls again. Says she will be there. I tell her okay, we've been waiting for an hour.

At 6:00 the MUA and I decide to cancel the shoot. As we are leaving out the door at 6:15, the model shows up.

I tell the model that the shoot is cancelled because I have other things to do that evening. (Which is true.)

The model asks, "Didn't you get my email saying I wanted to start at 6?"

"Um, yes, but you sent it 30 minutes before the shoot and in 3 phonecalls you said you'd be right here. That was 3 hours ago."

So, I'm sure at this point the model hates me and thinks I'm an asshole and won't work with me anymore. The question is, what do you think?

Am I at fault because I failed to confirm that she wanted to change the shoot time? Is she at fault because she never mentioned her desire to change the time during 3 different phonecalls?

I really felt bad for the MUA who drove an hour to get here. But, she had other errands to run too and couldn't stay.

Opinions?.......

You are ABSOLUTELY NOT at fault. If anyone wants to change the time..BOTH, or in your case ALL parties have to agree on the change, verbally, or in the email.

One person cannot just suggest a change and expect it to be granted. That is not how life works.

You are 100 percent NOT in the wrong here.

DigitalCMH wrote:
That depends.  If I understand women correctly,* if Eric is married, then his wife's position of being right supercedes all other women.  All we need to do is find out if his wife is aware of his position and has given approval of his position.  That would automatically make him right.

If he only has a girlfriend, I am less clear on the ruling though I suspect it may be the same as a marriage relationship.

If Eric is completely single and/or gay, then you are correct.

Not married. And in the words of Kid Rock ,"Never gay. No way. I don't play with ass. But watch me rock with Liberace flash!"

Lady Bronze wrote:
You are ABSOLUTELY NOT at fault. If anyone wants to change the time..BOTH, or in your case ALL parties have to agree on the change, verbally, or in the email.

One person cannot just suggest a change and expect it to be granted. That is not how life works.

You are 100 percent NOT in the wrong here.

I knew I liked you right from the start.

Jessica L wrote:
"GOD MOM! Get it together! YOU'RE going to make ME look bad if we're late!!! Give me the number so I can call! GEESH!"

Oh, don't blame her. I told her to say that. (chuckle)

Lapis wrote:
Could you explain what you are saying?

Dry Sense Of Humor

StMarc wrote:
Yes, you were wrong. I can prove it logically.

1) You are a man.

2) She is a woman.

3) Therefore, you were wrong.

Glad I could help.

M

Hehe - but it's ERIC! Can he be wrong?