Christophers Kamera wrote:

While early voting IS an issue, it's a minor one.  Some do it because they are a casual observer who just pops in for the first time.....but some do it because they either won't be back before closing and others see an image that immediately jumps out at them and they see no reason to not vote for it.

Regardless, it doesn't happen enough to taint the contest anymore than the other factors that are inherent to low participation contests like this.

I say let's not worry about it, and instead of getting bent out of shape and scolding the casual player who could turn into a regular player, let's thank them for showing up and hope they come back.

You're very naive if you believe that early votes are genuine votes. I can tell you for an absolute certainty that certain early votes had nothing to do with the voter liking the image.

If it's a minor issue, then lets simply make it stop. No regular participant is going to be deterred by the idea that you should look at more than 2-3 images before voting. In fact, I'll go farther, I don't think people who don't understand the value of a considered vote should be allowed to vote at all. How do you vote for your favorite image if it hasn't been posted.


Counting images should be no problem.

If it's going to be a time issue, I think 6am EST is reasonable as I'm sure there are some early risers and that should accomodate them.


The other option would be to change the start time to midnight.

EMB Images wrote:
Well last night I was staying up to vote, but I fell asleep in my chair here at the computer. I woke up at 1:50 AM. Hmmm I guess voting was over, sorry about the missed vote to ViperJoe. it really sux getting old and not being able to stay awake late anymore. Good group of pics yesterday!  Thanks for the votes people.

Are you saying that you were trying to wait for for the last minute to vote?


No one has ever suggested delaying the votes until the evening.

Mike Caffrey wrote:
If it's going to be a time issue, I think 6am EST is reasonable as I'm sure there are some early risers and that should accomodate them.

I can agree on a 6:00AM EST vote...it's the premature votejaculaors that dissapoint and discourage the early and morning entrants.
Sit back and enjoy the art and beauty before coming to a conclusion...
I still think, however, that 9:00AM EST(6:00AM PST)and 3:00PM in Europe is reasonable.

Christophers Kamera wrote:

I sense sarcasm. 

Do you think the quality will leave just because the quantity comes?  Is the contest 100% quality right now?

No, the breakdown is some experienced top level players and some inexperienced newbies who are trying to better themselves by competing with the experienced players.

Let's say the split is 60/40 right now.  My contention is the contest would be better off with 100 regular players with the same split as it is with 20 regular players of that split.

When you have 20 the competition is controlled by a select group of players, and the same genre and styles win over and over again.  That isn't because of any wrongdoing on their part, it's just because it's the way they vote.  The problem is when that happens the contest lacks variety, creativity, and credibility.

With more quantity comes more quality.

Yes, sarcasm reigns in a competition where folks vote within minutes of a 24 hour time frame and a few entries...it's discouraging to new players and repeat players alike.
Jeez, just hold it - stroke it after a fair amount of entries and contemplation.

dgold wrote:
Ah...the ole quantity over quality theory.

Ironic.

All of this vitriol and energy publicly offered over vote getting issues reduces the quality of this contest.

Everyone please step up to the plate - stop whining about one or two daily early votes.

Use the time you have invested in this to sharpen your game and show me the best photos you are capable of producing.

When you have done that, then come back to this pissing match.

Tommy Dee wrote:
Ironic.

All of this vitriol and energy publicly offered over vote getting issues reduces the quality of this contest.

Everyone please step up to the plate - stop whining about one or two daily early votes.

Use the time you have invested in this to sharpen your game and show me the best photos you are capable of producing.

When you have done that, then come back to this pissing match.

...we are, afterall, so described this past week as a nation of whiners.
Now back to sharpening my game.

dgold wrote:
...we are, afterall, so described this past week as a nation of whiners.

Missed this reference ...

dgold wrote:
Now back to sharpening my game.

... looking forward to seeing!!!

dgold wrote:

Ah...the ole quantity over quality theory.

Nothing old about it ... more players is more opportunity to see quality work ... I'm a glass half full guy ...

Christophers Kamera wrote:

I sense sarcasm. 

SNIP

With more quantity comes more quality.

Quoted again for emphasis ... lol

dgold wrote:

I can agree on a 6:00AM EST vote...it's the premature votejaculaors that dissapoint and discourage the early and morning entrants.
Sit back and enjoy the art and beauty before coming to a conclusion...
I still think, however, that 9:00AM EST(6:00AM PST)and 3:00PM in Europe is reasonable.

What you're proposing wouldn't bother me at all. I'm just shooting for the minimum that cuts the problem votes because people seem to think setting a time is a big deal.

There were a few days of early votes recently that prompted this discussion, but there were also a few others before that, but since our last big discussion. I figured I'd keep quiet, but this is an annoying issue that's going to keep coming up until there's a rule change.

Voting after seeing fewer than 5-10% of the images is nonsensical and the early votes rarely influence who wins which is equally an argument for creating a rule since it doesn't matter if they're lost.

People aren't going to be discouraged from entering photos because they can't vote simultaneously. If people want to see the photos, they cant look the next day even if they didn't get to vote.

Somehow we seem to be conflating a contest run by a private organization with out constitutional right to vote. I'm not for excluding people, just for creating some minimal requirement - actually looking at some photos - in order to vote. If people are going to vote for their friends or the model they have a crush on, what's the point?

Tommy Dee wrote:

Ironic.

All of this vitriol and energy publicly offered over vote getting issues reduces the quality of this contest.

Everyone please step up to the plate - stop whining about one or two daily early votes.

Use the time you have invested in this to sharpen your game and show me the best photos you are capable of producing.

When you have done that, then come back to this pissing match.

I've hit the limit of my skill and can not improve no matter how much more time I put in to it, so here come the warm jets.

Amedeus wrote:
Betcee let me finish the shoot early so I could make the vote this time ... lol

I'm guessing this is a joke with no element of truth to it?

Complaining about early votes is not the same as suggesting that votes should be held to the last minute.

Wet Ltd wrote:
Means I will probably lose votes, but those always feel like "dirty" votes.

Jeff your consistently upbeat, friendly and useful contributions to these threads are duly noted.

Can you please explain what makes those votes "dirty"?

You should know that I have no horse in this race ... James was cracking wise about Tommy voting 136 seconds late months before some of those whining about early votes even knew this contest existed.

Recently I was up late and knew that I had a full day coming: likely wouldn't be able to even log in until after the contest closed.

Someone entered an image that was far better than good - was excellent. I've been shooting for a couple of days and know what I like. I have also been entering and watching this contest since it began.

So given that this image was excellent in all ways, plus was very much to my liking (an imortant part of the voting here IMHO) ... I felt 99.999999999% certain that there wasn't going to be a superior entry placed to dethrone it.

Very much out of character for me, I voted for it. Was this a "dirty" vote?

In fact I retracted the vote when several of the regulars PM'd me suggesting that my vote would be viewed by some as a political statement. My reply to them was that I seriously doubted that a better image would be entered - and that if one was I would publicly rescind my vote.

The image that received my "dirty vote" was the winner for that day ... but my "dirty vote" cheapened this contest???

Edit:
God I love being free of Windoze for these last few years ... and keeps getting better!

A rare crash (bad USB driver methinks) ... rebooted and the above unposted form field was still intact.

Not many are ready but think about migrating from Micro$oft to Debian. Or Ubuntu. Or ...

Mike Caffrey wrote:
I've hit the limit of my skill and can not improve no matter how much more time I put in to it, so here come the warm jets.

After what, three shoots? Have you considered say euchre?

Wet Ltd wrote:
So today we have person A calling out person B that the image they entered in the contest (which was also my vote for today) is also being used by the model as her avitar. First, I think the image is clearly 18+ with the milk splashing over the models nude body (which was a great capture..I have tried this a couple time never with that good of an effect..hat's off to you) and a nipple clearly popping out there.  So now the rant..way too many people are out of line with their Avitars that I feel are way over the line and I am a little miffed that the mods are not stopping clearly r rated images to be used cause they are small.  Ok..rant ended now on with the review.

That was me, so I might as well man up and clarify as well.  I definitely did not intend to call out the photographer, as I agree with you that the image was clearly 18+.  If I intended to call out anyone it was the model, who had not tagged it 18+ and was using it as her avatar in pretty clear  violation of the rules - but honestly all I really intended to do was point out the humor in the inconsistency.  Naturally by doing so I broke a contest rule, and I'll say again My Bad™ - I really do know better.

As for the mods, I think you're being a little hard on them - the photo is what, ten days old?  And the mods don't spend their time 24/7 trolling the site looking for violations; they mostly respond to what members point out to them (which I do frequently enough that I sometimes wonder if they roll their eyes whenever they see a new CAM message from me).  Apparently nobody had done that yet; they're not psychic, y'know?

By the way, I'm guessing that it wasn't milk at all.  Usually real milk doesn't create that beautiful an effect, it has to be some kind of white paint or thick flour-water.  MDI care to fess up?

Tommy Dee wrote:
In the full understanding that this will precipitate a spate of Yosemite Sam-like dances from some of the newbies:


Jeff your consistently upbeat, friendly and useful contributions to these threads are duly noted.

Can you please explain what makes those votes "dirty"?

More than happy to explain the dirty vote feeling.  As many of you know I don't like playing vote getting games and days I help James out with the contest I usually manage to tick more folks off then make feel good about things.  So I don;t have friends voting just cause they know I just posted something. When I see an early vote it makes me usually go look to see if the voter has any link (even remote ones) that would make the vote more than random vote of image.  usually I find some connection.  Other times I look at the port of the voter and think to myself they just were playing gwc with their vote (my dirty vote if you will).  This last group seems to be the ones I have attracted when I get an early vote.  Even when my friends here do vote for me they at least wait till the last two hours most of the time.  Guess that  is why I support the min-time to start of voting concept be it xhours or a given time ET.

Hope that all helps explain my dirt vote world

Topless New York wrote:
By the way, I'm guessing that it wasn't milk at all.  Usually real milk doesn't create that beautiful an effect, it has to be some kind of white paint or thick flour-water.  MDI care to fess up?

Thanks much for your explanation...I see lots of images that should not be used as avatars but I draw a pretty tight line, but also believe in live and let you hang yourself, so I never really ever CAM cause as you say, they are over worked and under loved. 

Last time out with the Milk I actually used half and half that I let sit out for a few hours then poured into a glass milk jug for the model to pour over herself..actually worked pretty good...otherwise was going to step it up and add corn starch as a stiffening agent.  PS Love the risks you take with your location work,,thought I had balls till I saw your work.

Wet Ltd wrote:
PS Love the risks you take with your location work,,thought I had balls till I saw your work.

Thanks, that's nice of you to say!  It helps that it's completely legal, but I still get a nervous thrill out of it.  I've got plans to step it up a notch or two in the coming months, too.  If you know any models who play basketball, be sure to send 'em my way.  :-)

And you do have balls, just less urban ones.

Tommy Dee wrote:
LOL ... how appropriate!


After what, three shoots? Have you considered say euchre?

There are no auto features in euchre.

I just want to establish myself as being at a skill level that will allow me to continue in the pissing contest about early votes. I guess I don't have to be at my skill limit, just a a level that 5 minutes of posting a day isn't holding me up.

Wet Ltd wrote:

More than happy to explain the dirty vote feeling.  As many of you know I don't like playing vote getting games and days I help James out with the contest I usually manage to tick more folks off then make feel good about things.  So I don;t have friends voting just cause they know I just posted something. When I see an early vote it makes me usually go look to see if the voter has any link (even remote ones) that would make the vote more than random vote of image.  usually I find some connection.  Other times I look at the port of the voter and think to myself they just were playing gwc with their vote (my dirty vote if you will).  This last group seems to be the ones I have attracted when I get an early vote.  Even when my friends here do vote for me they at least wait till the last two hours most of the time.  Guess that  is why I support the min-time to start of voting concept be it xhours or a given time ET.

Hope that all helps explain my dirt vote world

Yep to both points.

Wet Ltd wrote:
MC2
https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=7217210
18+

The more I have looked at this image the more that I find I like about it.  Really like the way the light falls over her breast and pubic mound. Would have been my love today but I was taken by another..would have loved to see what would have happened if you ran milk down her body!

Well, thats all I have time for this evening.  Have a bunch of prints coming in tomorrow for a show on Sunday so I might miss the vote, but I will try really hard.

Jeff

Thanks for the review.


Which image did you vote for? For some reason I can't tell from your comments. Am I jsut overlooking it?

Amedeus wrote:
Following images stayed on my screen till the end

alternative analog
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=7334771 18+
Love the image, great post processing ... beautiful model but I personally miss the connection with the viewer .. (hair is a bit distracting)

Joan Lee
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic … id=7512994 18+
Not on the list ? Where is the list ?

Viperjoe
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic … id=6770240 18+
Not on the list ?

Daxwax
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic … id=7447742 18+

Love the image softness ... not totally sure what post processing you used ... beautiful model but I didn't feel *the* connection in the end.

Tommy Dee
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=7508879 18+
Love the toning, pose and expression of the model ... there's connection .. the table edge runs nicely into the corner like Cherrystone remarked ... lol ... personally I would have like to see a bit more at the top ... just too tight but not a show stopper ... got my VOTE

Other images I had up on the screen were EMB Images and Bobby G ... they just didn't stop me in my tracks tonight

Congrats to EMB Images !

Joan Lee should be on the list...added quite some time ago! Would still love any thoughts..three images in last week~

Tommy Dee wrote:

Missed this reference ...


... looking forward to seeing!!!

Phil Gramm, a John Mc Cain advisor ,  made the "Nation of Whiners" comment last week describing Americans and the state of the economy and was in the national news and target sight of Mc Cain.
...it was an ill advised political comment.

Joan Lee wrote:
Joan Lee should be on the list...added quite some time ago! Would still love any thoughts..three images in last week~

Yep saw you on th list lastnight afr I hit my refresh for th page I had open that had my reference list.  Howver by that time I really neede to cut things short but will surely catch up with you this week

PS sorry for typing/spellig..need a new keyboard onmy desktop machine

Topless New York wrote:
That was me, so I might as well man up and clarify as well.  I definitely did not intend to call out the photographer, as I agree with you that the image was clearly 18+.  If I intended to call out anyone it was the model, who had not tagged it 18+ and was using it as her avatar in pretty clear  violation of the rules - but honestly all I really intended to do was point out the humor in the inconsistency.  Naturally by doing so I broke a contest rule, and I'll say again My Bad™ - I really do know better.

As for the mods, I think you're being a little hard on them - the photo is what, ten days old?  And the mods don't spend their time 24/7 trolling the site looking for violations; they mostly respond to what members point out to them (which I do frequently enough that I sometimes wonder if they roll their eyes whenever they see a new CAM message from me).  Apparently nobody had done that yet; they're not psychic, y'know?

By the way, I'm guessing that it wasn't milk at all.  Usually real milk doesn't create that beautiful an effect, it has to be some kind of white paint or thick flour-water.  MDI care to fess up?

It's was a straight out of the carton dairy product, found at any grocery store, and completely untampered with.  No additives or thickening agents used.

MDI Studios LLC wrote:

It's was a straight out of the carton dairy product, found at any grocery store, and completely untampered with.  No additives or thickening agents used.

An awesome photograph !!
Got Milk ?
...do we ever.

MDI Studios LLC wrote:
It's was a straight out of the carton dairy product, found at any grocery store, and completely untampered with.  No additives or thickening agents used.

Cool, thanks for letting us know.

Note to self:  Try Ragu.

Topless New York wrote:

Cool, thanks for letting us know.

Note to self:  Try Ragu.

Spaghetti sauce??

SLE Photography wrote:

Spaghetti sauce??

Yeah, I was just imagining the spaghetti sauce equivalent of MDI's milk photo.    Fun, if nothing else.

Joan Lee wrote:
Joan Lee should be on the list...added quite some time ago! Would still love any thoughts..three images in last week~

Joan Lee
18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_ … id=7512994 18+
Not on the list ? Where is the list ?

Couldn't find the list when I wrote this ... went back a couple of pages and the loading was slow ... sorry ...

About the image ... I'm in general a sucker for natural window light ... what caught my attention here is the tonal range in the picture, the light fall off in the background and your contemplative mood evoked by your expression ... very relaxed feel yet one know you're miles away

Well done !

From a technical perspective, I didn't go for the right vertical brick edge ... either show more as part of the composition if it works that way or crop it out ... but that's just me nitpicking ...

Rudi.

EMB Images wrote:
emb images
http://photos.photosig.com/photos/02/66 … 48132c.jpg
18+

How to make shadows sexy in 2 easy steps...get beautiful wife to model for you..get sun into correct position to cast shadow of step 1.  Love that location that you used perhaps you can explain it's purpose other than be a stunning backdrop for great photos.  Looks like something the old Life magazine would have shot if they did nudes.


The location of this image Jeff is called the Zigurat. It is this bright yellow cylinderical structure that has a spiral walkway from bottom to top. It sticks out in the middle of no-where near Crestone, Colorado which is in the SW portion of the state in the San Luis Valley. As I understand it some Middle Eastern Royalty dude built it for his wife to be. But she split on him and all that remains is this photographic prop with nothing around it for miles.

I'm feeling a road trip with Abigail coming on!

SLE Photography wrote:
AUGH.
I have a tough tie between 2 excellent images of beautiful women.
Dammit.

Awe, poor thing!

I have tons of new 18+ images! You will be seeing new images daily!

Sexy CeeCee wrote:

Awe, poor thing!

I have tons of new 18+ images! You will be seeing new images daily!

I like today's 

SLE Photography wrote:

I like today's 

Ty very much!