This thread was locked on 2008-11-07 11:19:54
Model
ABeautifulDisaster
Posts: 239
Hamilton, Alabama, US
I don't understand models who insist on escorts-especially if their boyfriend is the escort.
I personally don't like bringing people to a shoot with me. It takes away my focus. And I would not bring my boyfriend to a shoot with me. That's a recipe for disaster. No matter how supportive and awesome he is-I mean, *MY* boyfriend would never be one of those crazy jealous ones that interfere with the shoot right? Until he thought I was being too sexy, or thought the photographer was looking the wrong way at me, etc. No WAY would I take the chance of bringing the boyfriend along! And risk a jealous, testosterone motivated rage that forever ruins any chances I have of being taken seriously?!
My boyfriend does drive me to shoots once in awhile since my car was stolen, but he doesn't stick around. He did once-the photographer was one I worked with before and invited him, he sat in another room and read some golf magazine bored to tears and probably never wants to do it again.
Photographer
Mark Brummitt
Posts: 40527
Clarkston, Michigan, US
Sharon vanderHorst wrote:
My husband has been my escort.... but he came up with a great way to "eliminate" the need. Set up a model/photographer meeting first. He is there too, and we all chat about the idea. See if we all gel. I feel that is fair. As he is a photographer/videographer, he understands, and respects the need for "creative space". I can't believe you guys are "whining" about escorts... figure out a way to get around it!
Do you offer to provide the model with references (other models, for instance) with their phone numbers and contact info so the model can check you out if she doesn't know you? I think that if a model wants an escort present... maybe you should explain your "need" for creative space and offer to provide such information as a "background check".
You don't think this is fair? I, personally don't like traveling alone... not because I'm "scared".. but because I hate traveling alone.
Some of you are putting your ego and alleged talent above another person's perceived "safety" in the form of comfort zone. I don't think that is fair. TRUST is earned... not demanded. I find nothing at all wrong with what you have said.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Savvy O wrote:
My mom is my personal assistant at photo shoots  Because you are 17, she should be at the shoot!
Photographer
ChanStudio
Posts: 9219
Alpharetta, Georgia, US
The only model that I required to bring an escort is this model: ![https://modelmayhm-4.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/070925/20/46f9a617ddb51_m.jpg]() She was 16 when I took that and she is 17 now.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Sharon vanderHorst wrote:
Do you offer to provide the model with references (other models, for instance) with their phone numbers and contact info so the model can check you out if she doesn't know you? I think that if a model wants an escort present... maybe you should explain your "need" for creative space and offer to provide such information as a "background check". Oh, you're going to LOVE ME next week :-)
Model
Elle Enjoli
Posts: 8
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
SLE Photography wrote:
Ok, first the stock answer to the "assistant" thing:
- An "escort" is NOT an assistant. If you need an assistant, hire one or recruit a student from your local photography school or partner with another photographer to help each other out.
- An "escort" has NO training and so might botch the job or damage equipment, potentially deliberately or accidentally doing something like dropping a $150 reflector in a mud puddle. Assistants are there to work with the equipment.
- An "escort' has no stake in the shoot or listening to you, and so is apt to wander off in boredom or to answer a cell phone call right when you need them, or just not follow directions. An assistant is there for YOU.
- The "escort" might be tempted to "goof off" and do things like flash light from a reflector in a model's eyes, and putting the escort in the model's sight-line sets up the potential for distraction, seeking of "approval," or directions from the "escort". An assistant fades in to the background like a piece of equipment.
- An "escort" doesn't know what to watch for. Clothing out of sorts? Hair in the model's face? Bad reflection the photographer can't see? An "escort" won't notice, but the assistant should know what to look for and say something or jump in to fix it.
- By putting an "escort" to work you're risking TREMENDOUS insurance liability! If the "escort" burns a hand on a hot light bulb you could be ruined. An assistant should be covered under your policy & is less likely to file BS suits against you.
I SERIOUSLY question the professionalism & smarts of ANY photographer who's happy to have the model bring someone so the photographer can use that person as "free labor."
Beyond that, aside from an MUA or stylist models generally have NO NEED for an assistant & they're using that term as a COVER for someone who's really there as a bodyguard.
Again, I can show you NUMEROUS examples of people discussing how they lie about this or advocating that others lie about it to get boyfriends or husbands on the set. Wow! clearly everyone has had different experiences with "escorts" but I think it really depends on WHO u bring. For instance, when I go on shoots with a photographer and crew whom Ihavent worked with, i do bring an escort BUT my escorts are models too so they know how to conduct themselves at a photoshoot..
Model
_Blip_
Posts: 6703
Tampa, Florida, US
MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
That is probably the worst person to bring to a shoot.......another "photographer". It really depends on the situation and the rapport between the photographers involved (assuming they know each other). Every scenario is different and should be assessed separately. But, the final say should be from the photographer with whom the model is shooting.
Photographer
Mark Reese Photography
Posts: 21622
Brandon, Florida, US
Andrea Acailawen wrote:
It really depends on the situation and the rapport between the photographers involved (assuming they know each other). Every scenario is different and should be assessed separately. But, the final say should be from the photographer with whom the model is shooting. Quoting this for truth.
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31812
Riverside, California, US
Ell Enjoli wrote:
Wow! clearly everyone has had different experiences with "escorts" but I think it really depends on WHO u bring. For instance, when I go on shoots with a photographer and crew whom Ihavent worked with, i do bring an escort BUT my escorts are models too so they know how to conduct themselves at a photoshoot.. Another of the we're-supposed-to-take-your-word-for-it-that-your-escort-will-be-fine replies.
I particularly like the "i do bring an escort BUT..." touch. ![https://photoworks.ws/images/icons/icon_rofl.gif]()
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31812
Riverside, California, US
Andrea Acailawen wrote:
..But, the final say should be from the photographer with whom the model is shooting. It's a negotiation. Either party has the "final" say.
Photographer
Class Act Photography
Posts: 6376
STUDIO CITY, California, US
Curt Burgess wrote:
It's a negotiation. Either party has the "final" say. You sound like an intelligent fellow. I'd have to take your word on the subject.
Model
_Blip_
Posts: 6703
Tampa, Florida, US
Curt Burgess wrote:
It's a negotiation. Either party has the "final" say. I don't think you read me correctly. I was saying that the final say as to whether another photographer would make a suitable assistant on a shoot is up to the photographer who is shooting.
MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
That is probably the worst person to bring to a shoot.......another "photographer". Andrea Acailawen wrote:
It really depends on the situation and the rapport between the photographers involved (assuming they know each other). Every scenario is different and should be assessed separately. But, the final say should be from the photographer with whom the model is shooting.
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31812
Riverside, California, US
Curt Burgess wrote:
It's a negotiation. Either party has the "final" say. Andrea Acailawen wrote:
I don't think you read me correctly. I was saying that the final say as to whether another photographer would make a suitable assistant on a shoot is up to the photographer who is shooting. I would agree with that - it's not really controversial. I didn't "read that correctly" because it wasn't in what you said and the person replying to you didn't include the preceding context.
It's still a negotiation ... there are no rights to an escort or rights to refuse one. It's not a "rights" issue. I'm always amused by those who behave as though this is in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31812
Riverside, California, US
Curt Burgess wrote:
It's a negotiation. Either party has the "final" say. Class Act Photography wrote:
You sound like an intelligent fellow. I'd have to take your word on the subject. Only on this topic! 
Photographer
Actionpixpro
Posts: 84
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Alexandria M. wrote:
good idea!! however you know some girls are only going to feel "comfertable" with their boyfriend there... Boyfriends come and GO.... Photographers are forever... LMAO
Model
_Blip_
Posts: 6703
Tampa, Florida, US
Curt Burgess wrote:
I would agree with that - it's not really controversial. I didn't "read that correctly" because it wasn't in what you said and the person replying to you didn't include the preceding context.
It's still a negotiation ... there are no rights to an escort or rights to refuse one. It's not a "rights" issue. I'm always amused by those who behave as though this is in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. No worries. My response was to Melissa, but I could have elaborated a bit. 
Photographer
Black Bag Photography
Posts: 102
Fontana, California, US
I say if the model wants to use her boyfriend as her "assistant", I'll have a bunch of my beer drinking buddies stand around and leer as my "assistants", and the MUA can bring a few friends to "assist" them, and then all the "assistants" can bring to "second assistants" and that we we can all throw any sense of professionalism right out the window! There's a time and place for everything- but the studio gets awefully crowded with everyone building an army to protect themselves from the other armies building up....
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
Ell Enjoli wrote:
Wow! clearly everyone has had different experiences with "escorts" but I think it really depends on WHO u bring. For instance, when I go on shoots with a photographer and crew whom Ihavent worked with, i do bring an escort BUT my escorts are models too so they know how to conduct themselves at a photoshoot.. Wait, even if there is a crew there, you bring an escort?
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
Andrea Acailawen wrote:
It really depends on the situation and the rapport between the photographers involved (assuming they know each other). Every scenario is different and should be assessed separately. But, the final say should be from the photographer with whom the model is shooting. On a scale of one to ten of people who shouldn't tag along with no notice, which is what I was responding to, another photographer is a twelve.
Photographer
Mr Banner
Posts: 85322
Hayward, California, US
if you call someone a MUA, they should have references that I can check out, right?? Don't bring your cousin bertha and tell her to put your eyeshadow on.
Photographer
KK-
Posts: 63
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
In my case, I work with an all female crew and I've not had anyone have an escort with them outside of them being dropped off at the set. Only had a mother come once on-set, but that was a few years back. All in all, everything works out just fine.
Photographer
pullins photography
Posts: 5884
Troy, Michigan, US
one of these days, the "escort" threads and discussions should come to an end...it's like discussing politics and religion...everyone thinks they have the right answer and will fight to the death defending their position, when in actuality, those who want to go right, should go right, and those who want to go left, go left!
Just leave me in the middle, and in peace!
Model
Pantera Noelle
Posts: 5300
Tucson, Arizona, US
Alexandria M. wrote:
good idea!! however you know some girls are only going to feel "comfertable" with their boyfriend there... they should make their bf learn makeup and hair.
I bring my ex on my bondage shoots because he can easily pick me up and reposition me, fix my hair and clothes, all that stuff
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
I've suggested the whole "bring your stylist as your escort" thousands of times before.
It comes down to the model wanting their boyfriend there. That's it.
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
Daniela Victoria wrote:
I've suggested the whole "bring your stylist as your escort" thousands of times before.
It comes down to the model wanting their boyfriend there. That's it. Excellent point.
A photo shoot is not a date. It's not a bonding experience. It's not foreplay (unless you're fucking your photographer). It's work, dammit!
Photographer
Mr Banner
Posts: 85322
Hayward, California, US
Daniela Victoria wrote:
I've suggested the whole "bring your stylist as your escort" thousands of times before.
It comes down to the model wanting their boyfriend there. That's it. but he's her manager.
this issue will never be easily solved. never. well, it could be solved if new models stop thinking they are so hot that every man wants to rape them. And will stop when people (unrelated to modeling and photography) stop raping and murdering other people.
Photographer
Kruppaworks
Posts: 400
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Stephen,
I understand what you're getting at with this thread, and if everyone has a professional attitude then your points are useful. It seems, though, that the essence of this problem is unprofessional attitudes/behavior, and tiptoeing around the issue through semantics won't solve that.
For me, the model and photographer must communicate well before a shoot and if either side is uncomfortable, then simply don't do the shoot. This is mostly a hobby for me, and I don't really feel compelled to be around people I'm not going to be comfortable with. If it's a paying gig, then the issue should also not be in play.
Photographer
StephenEastwood
Posts: 19585
Great Neck, New York, US
Daniela Victoria wrote:
It comes down to the model wanting their boyfriend there. That's it. Thats not a model thats a girl who wants to pretend she is a model. A model woudl want someone who can be helpful on set and serve a purpose of making the shoot better and making her feel more secure.
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
Photographer
Fotographia Fantastique
Posts: 17339
White River Junction, Vermont, US
I freely admit that I have not read this entire thread.
I have read the first page, and some of the second.
I still maintain that checking references is still the best method.
Hell, that is the single best thing about MM, it is a networking site - what could be easier?
ALSO
I totally agree with Melissa about bringing another photographer.
That's like bringing your pal who works for Pepsi to the marketing meeting at your job for Coke.
(and yes, back when I did allow escorts I had a shoot where the escort actually pulled out a camera and started shooting over my shoulder)
Photographer
StephenEastwood
Posts: 19585
Great Neck, New York, US
Damon Banner wrote:
but he's her manager.
this issue will never be easily solved. never. well, it could be solved if new models stop thinking they are so hot that every man wants to rape them. And will stop when people (unrelated to modeling and photography) stop raping and murdering other people. Managers do not come on set, they may give input to what is required if its for them, or what is allowed if its contract based, otherwise they have no place there. MUA/HS/WS/Assitant, all have places. Hell do any ofyou have any idea how much I could charge rich guys to just come and watch a photoshoot? should they be allowed? I mean they have as much business there as an escort with no purpose, more maybe since they are perhaps funding the whole shoot
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
Photographer
JLC Images
Posts: 11615
Phillipsburg, New Jersey, US
Fotographia Fantastique wrote:
That's like bringing your pal who works for Pepsi to the marketing meeting at your job for Coke.
(and yes, back when I did allow escorts I had a shoot where the escort actually pulled out a camera and started shooting over my shoulder) Or your new girlfriend bringing her ex on your first romp session!
Photographer
Mr Banner
Posts: 85322
Hayward, California, US
StephenEastwood wrote:
Mamagers do not come on set, they may give input to what is required if its for them, or what is allowed if its contract based, otherwise they have no place there. MUA/HS/WS/Assitant, all have places. Hell do any ofyou have any idea how much I could charge rich guys to just come and watch a photoshoot? should they be allowed? I mean they have as much business there as an escort with no purpose, more maybe since they are perhaps funding the whole shoot
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com Good idea.
*steals it and goes to craigslist*
Photographer
StephenEastwood
Posts: 19585
Great Neck, New York, US
Fotographia Fantastique wrote:
I still maintain that checking references is still the best method.
Hell, that is the single best thing about MM, it is a networking site - what could be easier?
(and yes, back when I did allow escorts I had a shoot where the escort actually pulled out a camera and started shooting over my shoulder) Only problem I see here is that as a psycho stalker photographer they would not likely give you names as references to those who have filed restraining orders against them
Although the real dumb ones just might.
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
Photographer
StephenEastwood
Posts: 19585
Great Neck, New York, US
JLC Images wrote:
Or your new girlfriend bringing her ex on your first romp session! My ex is bi so her ex is another woman, she can bring her so long as I approve and they have a position to be in........, I mean well you get the idea
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
StephenEastwood wrote:
Thats not a model thats a girl who wants to pretend she is a model. You know that, and I know that.
And many know that.
Just not her.
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
Damon Banner wrote:
but he's her manager.
this issue will never be easily solved. never. well, it could be solved if new models stop thinking they are so hot that every man wants to rape them. And will stop when people (unrelated to modeling and photography) stop raping and murdering other people. Here's what I don't get.
If a chick is convinced that her sheer hotness means every man wants to rape her, how does she even leave the house each day, let alone go to photo shoots?
I'm terrified of squirrels (I have issues, I know). So I avoid going into the woods or somewhere with a lot of trees that have squirrels. I don't make my (non existent) boyfriend walk with me in the forest so he can battle any furry things that jump out at me. How is that not a common sense thing?
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
I'm terrified of squirrels (I have issues, I know)............ *bites tongue*
Photographer
StephenEastwood
Posts: 19585
Great Neck, New York, US
Daniela Victoria wrote:
You know that, and I know that.
And many know that.
Just not her. She will learn when she cannot get a shoot that is worth anything and has to go back to the checkout line working at walmart.
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
StephenEastwood wrote:
Managers do not come on set, they may give input to what is required if its for them, or what is allowed if its contract based, otherwise they have no place there. MUA/HS/WS/Assitant, all have places. Hell do any ofyou have any idea how much I could charge rich guys to just come and watch a photoshoot? should they be allowed? I mean they have as much business there as an escort with no purpose, more maybe since they are perhaps funding the whole shoot
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com Stephen, if we ever shoot, you have my permission to charge admission. 
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
StephenEastwood wrote:
She will learn when she cannot get a shoot that is worth anything and has to go back to the checkout line working at walmart.
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com She may learn. But she won't care.
And frankly, there are enough photographers that enable this escort policy who will give her pictures that she deems hot. And that's all that matters, to her.
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Don't bring your cousin bertha and tell her to put your eyeshadow on.
