Posted by NuruExpressions: 
I see this a lot on profiles. If I didn't know any better, I would think that people are just copying each other thinking that this is some kind of filtering mechanism to intimidate the amature GWC. Unfortunately "exceptional" is not what I see in the portfolios of many of these models who request it. So again I ask, what is an "exceptional photographer"? Be careful of what you think your standards are. You'll miss many opportunities of some good shoots. 

I know exactly what you're speaking of. It looks like from one  or two of the answers the question wasn't clear.

Say you're looking at a models port on MM. Normally when the model says she'll work with "exceptional photographers" (another phrase would be "select photographers", same thing) it's almost always in the same sentence with with TFP/TFCD.

"I will do some TFP work with exceptional photographers.
I'm willing to do topless shots depending on the pay and/or photographer."

"I'm needing paid assignments but will consider TFP for the right photographer.
- Rates depend on travel & assignment and start at $75/hour. (Nothing outside OH for now) I bring an escort to all shoots, NO EXCEPTIONS!
- A CD copy of images and two weeks notice."

"interested in paid assignments, but TFCD's will be considered on an individual basis depending on the project and the professionalism of the photographer."

"I have done several TFCD and Paid shoots this past year. I am looking for tear sheets, further paid opportunities, and TFCD with select photographers."

"reliable model looking for pa$d assignments or TFP/CD with select photographers."

"I will consider doing TFP with select Photographers only."

"IM LOOKING FOR PAID WORK , AND I WILL DO VERY SELECT TFP,TFP/CD WITH EXCEPTIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS THAT I FEEL WILL ENHANCE MY BOOK"

(Personally I think the one below figured it out.)

"At the moment I'm only really considering paid projects, but if I particularily like your work I might consider TFP/CD."


Yeah, it's mostly the blind leading the blind with using the same phrases. And the majority I've seen saying these things have portfolios that are like a bad joke. I've stopped telling models I haven't worked with what they should use or have instead of the garbage they have up. Unfortunately to them their pics look like Vogue tears (although the other day a model on here did what I said, amazing).

When they say "exceptional/select", I believe they would say if asked, "great images of course". The majority wouldn't know a great, no... make that a decent pic if it flew in the room and hit them in the face.

So what's an exceptional photographer to the models Nuru is referring to? Anything they want them to be.

There are no standard rules for "exceptional", only what one perceives according to their thinking.

Posted by flameon: 
These shutterbugs are what I would consider " exceptional photographers " and would love to work with one day.

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photograph … P_ID=19038

http://www.striffler.com/fashion-site.html

http://www.thebecker.com/galleries.html

http://www.riverclark.com/fashion1.html

http://www.israelcolonphoto.com/pagehtml.html

Flameon, if you want to get past being an amateur MUA I would avoid making posts like that. It's unprofessional and it will turn some photogs off and they will not work with you.

Just some experienced advice.

Posted by Mary: 

5) knows how to present his book to clients, his book has nothing but perfect shots in it, not one B  model can be found in it.

I would suggest that an exceptional photographer is not limited to shooting A models. An exceptional photographer can shoot anything and make it interesting, even a B model or a C model or a fat old lady.

Posted by Glamour Studio /Gary: 

Posted by NuruExpressions: 
I see this a lot on profiles. If I didn't know any better, I would think that people are just copying each other thinking that this is some kind of filtering mechanism to intimidate the amature GWC. Unfortunately "exceptional" is not what I see in the portfolios of many of these models who request it. So again I ask, what is an "exceptional photographer"? Be careful of what you think your standards are. You'll miss many opportunities of some good shoots. 

I know exactly what you're speaking of. It looks like from one  or two of the answers the question wasn't clear.

Say you're looking at a models port on MM. Normally when the model says she'll work with "exceptional photographers" (another phrase would be "select photographers", same thing) it's almost always in the same sentence with with TFP/TFCD.

"I will do some TFP work with exceptional photographers.
I'm willing to do topless shots depending on the pay and/or photographer."

"I'm needing paid assignments but will consider TFP for the right photographer.
- Rates depend on travel & assignment and start at $75/hour. (Nothing outside OH for now) I bring an escort to all shoots, NO EXCEPTIONS!
- A CD copy of images and two weeks notice."

"interested in paid assignments, but TFCD's will be considered on an individual basis depending on the project and the professionalism of the photographer."

"I have done several TFCD and Paid shoots this past year. I am looking for tear sheets, further paid opportunities, and TFCD with select photographers."

"reliable model looking for pa$d assignments or TFP/CD with select photographers."

"I will consider doing TFP with select Photographers only."

"IM LOOKING FOR PAID WORK , AND I WILL DO VERY SELECT TFP,TFP/CD WITH EXCEPTIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS THAT I FEEL WILL ENHANCE MY BOOK"

(Personally I think the one below figured it out.)

"At the moment I'm only really considering paid projects, but if I particularily like your work I might consider TFP/CD."


Yeah, it's mostly the blind leading the blind with using the same phrases. And the majority I've seen saying these things have portfolios that are like a bad joke. I've stopped telling models I haven't worked with what they should use or have instead of the garbage they have up. Unfortunately to them their pics look like Vogue tears (although the other day a model on here did what I said, amazing).

When they say "exceptional/select", I believe they would say if asked, "great images of course". The majority wouldn't know a great, no... make that a decent pic if it flew in the room and hit them in the face.

So what's an exceptional photographer to the models Nuru is referring to? Anything they want them to be.

There are no standard rules for "exceptional", only what one perceives according to their thinking.

Thank you!

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
"exceptional" = "paying"

HAHAHA!!!

Posted by Cristan: 
You ever noticed that many models looking for exceptional photographers are ussually the same ones exceptional photographers want nothing to do with them?

Amen to that!  You hit the nail right on the head.

Posted by Sara Green: 
Mary summed it up nicely.

I would say based on Glamour/Gary's posting, that "exceptional" is a short way of the model saying "If a great opportunity comes up - i.e. legendary photographer, amazing exposure, etc. - of course I'd take it without pay" -and/or- "For TFP/CD I need images that are better than the ones in my portfolio." In other words, you need to be able to deliver images and the images of a quality the model is seeking.

I say - it never hurts to ask politely - "Will you work TFP/CD with me?" - just be prepared for the model to say "No" or "Pay me"

Yes, I agree

Posted by flameon: 
These shutterbugs are what I would consider " exceptional photographers " and would love to work with one day.

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photograph … P_ID=19038

http://www.striffler.com/fashion-site.html

http://www.thebecker.com/galleries.html

http://www.riverclark.com/fashion1.html

http://www.israelcolonphoto.com/pagehtml.html

Flameon I concur 100% some exceptional photographers there for sure, thanks for sharing.

The 21st of this month: http://www.wunderground.com/US/NJ/Hoboken.html

Just some experienced advice lol.

Posted by rickOPIOLA: 

Posted by Mary: 
1)  knows lighting
2) knows compostition
3) knows good makeup and and styling when he sees it.
4) understands what a glamour model is, a fashion model, a commercial model.  Understands the industry enough to know who works for what shot.
5) knows how to present his book to clients, his book has nothing but perfect shots in it, not one B  model can be found in it.
6) He can shoot what you ask for and not just what he is good at. 


I know a real pro when I look at someones work and it doesn't all look the same.  (insert model here)  you know, the ones that shoot the same lighting, same scenery, same stuff over and over.

7)  He is as good at natural light photography as he is in studio.  Look around at portfolios, 90% of the photographers are great at one and suck at the other.   Its the difference between understanding lighting (the really good photographers) and  learning a set formula (most)

hey mary... love the work you're doing...
just wondering how do i score on your *exceptional photographer skills torture test*?
i'm really serious about this... no joke... i value your opinion as a working pro mua...
rick

Thanks for the compliment, I know some don't agree with my formula, it's my formula, not to be mistaken for the industry standard.....it's the forumla I look for myself. 

Posted by nikitta: 

Posted by flameon: 
These shutterbugs are what I would consider " exceptional photographers " and would love to work with one day.

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photograph … P_ID=19038

http://www.striffler.com/fashion-site.html

http://www.thebecker.com/galleries.html

http://www.riverclark.com/fashion1.html

http://www.israelcolonphoto.com/pagehtml.html

Flameon I concur 100% some exceptional photographers there for sure, thanks for sharing.

The 21st of this month: http://www.wunderground.com/US/NJ/Hoboken.html

Just some experienced advice lol.

Hmmmmmmmm

Posted by Mary: 
1)  knows lighting
2) knows compostition
3) knows good makeup and and styling when he sees it.
4) understands what a glamour model is, a fashion model, a commercial model.  Understands the industry enough to know who works for what shot.
5) knows how to present his book to clients, his book has nothing but perfect shots in it, not one B  model can be found in it.
6) He can shoot what you ask for and not just what he is good at. 

..snip...

Correct me if I am wrong, but number 4 and 5 presumes that every Photographer in the entire online community is aspiring to be a full time Commercial Fashion Photographer. Whether you're aware of it, or not, you're also setting a precedent on two levels:

1) That models shouldn't work with Photographers who don't satisfy #4 and #5.

2) Photographers shouldn't join this community if they don't satisfy #4 and #5.

A photographer (and a model) does not and should not always have to meet these kinds of criteria. Otherwise, all we're doing here is establishing an elitist society. There are people who just love doing it for the fun of it and it's not our place to establish some kind of Photography and Modeling Government.

Sites like OMP and Model Mayhem are not always and should not always have to be about "the Industry". Okay?

Sometimes I see these posts and it strikes me as punishing people for trying to do something with a camera they bought, or got for christmas. Then, when it comes to people who want to pose, they use a site's category system and get chastized for using "Model".

To answer the top question, "what makes them exceptional?", is simply when the modeling, or photography they do garners the interest and admiration by hundreds of people, or more. It shouldn't be the accolades and approvals from Industry professionals, because don't forget, working professionals need to work at establishing the same kind of fan base.

Posted by Glamour Studio /Gary: 
Full moon?

Good, thought it was early.

From your work hun you need all the advice you can get. LOL
Just hate when a newbie acts like a 2 year old because she happens to fit the subject of this post. Only four of the same pics in a port and 2 photogs taking the same pic, the one you were looking at and the one on the side, a real pro. A real joke.
And I'm so upset you aren't my friend anymore, awwe.

I'm done wasting my time with you. When you have a port that actually says something then you might just have something to say. Do you honestly think I care what someone like you says? Get real.

Hmmmmmmmm not an " exceptional " quote.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 

Posted by Mary: 
1)  knows lighting
2) knows compostition
3) knows good makeup and and styling when he sees it.
4) understands what a glamour model is, a fashion model, a commercial model.  Understands the industry enough to know who works for what shot.
5) knows how to present his book to clients, his book has nothing but perfect shots in it, not one B  model can be found in it.
6) He can shoot what you ask for and not just what he is good at. 

..snip...

Correct me if I am wrong, but number 4 and 5 presumes that every Photographer in the entire online community is aspiring to be a full time Commercial Fashion Photographer. Whether you're aware of it, or not, you're also setting a precedent on two levels:

1) That models shouldn't work with Photographers who don't satisfy #4 and #5.

2) Photographers shouldn't join this community if they don't satisfy #4 and #5.

A photographer (and a model) does not and should not always have to meet these kinds of criteria. Otherwise, all we're doing here is establishing an elitist society. There are people who just love doing it for the fun of it and it's not our place to establish some kind of Photography and Modeling Government.

Sites like OMP and Model Mayhem are not always and should not always have to be about "the Industry". Okay?

Sometimes I see these posts and it strikes me as punishing people for trying to do something with a camera they bought, or got for christmas. Then, when it comes to people who want to pose, they use a site's category system and get chastized for using "Model".

To answer the top question, "what makes them exceptional?", is simply when the modeling, or photography they do garners the interest and admiration by hundreds of people, or more. It shouldn't be the accolades and approvals from Industry professionals, because don't forget, working professionals need to work at establishing the same kind of fan base.

Joe,  As I said before, this is what I look for in a photographer, and as I said before, I'm not trying to represent the industry standard.

My standards are not the same as everyone elses, thats pretty clear but I wanted to give my input from my perspective.  I assumed the original post was asking for individual criteria, what an individual looked for and not an industry standard because there really isnt an  industry standard because the industry is made up of people making money on national BCBG campaigns, commercial shoots, people making money on modeling portfolios and people  just playing around..GWC.   There is room in the indusrty for everyone but there are tiers, we have a few at the top and thousands at the bottom and in between their are climbers that would like to be at the top.  I am giving my criteria for the exceptional, when I say exceptional I am talking about those near the top of that pyrimid. 

Posted by Mary: 
1)  knows lighting
2) knows compostition
3) knows good makeup and and styling when he sees it.
4) understands what a glamour model is, a fashion model, a commercial model.  Understands the industry enough to know who works for what shot.
5) knows how to present his book to clients, his book has nothing but perfect shots in it, not one B  model can be found in it.
6) He can shoot what you ask for and not just what he is good at. 


I know a real pro when I look at someones work and it doesn't all look the same.  (insert model here)  you know, the ones that shoot the same lighting, same scenery, same stuff over and over.

7)  He is as good at natural light photography as he is in studio.  Look around at portfolios, 90% of the photographers are great at one and suck at the other.   Its the difference between understanding lighting (the really good photographers) and  learning a set formula (most)

I know this is MODEL mayhem after all, so we can assume that 95% of the folks on here are actual or aspiring commercial, fashion, glamour models and photographers,  but there are some of us here that come from the other world, the nebulous region of fine art photography. 

If one isn't in the industry of glamour, fashion, commercial, stock, product photography, then it's not as important to be on tp of industry standards.   And portfolio standards are different in FAP.  Models aren't generally the product nor are they pitching it, so "b" models work, if the images work.

With that I'd agree with 1, 2, 3, 6, 7. 

Posted by alexwh: 
"If one isn't in the industry of glamour, fashion, commercial, stock, product photography, then it's not as important to be on tp of industry standards. And portfolio standards are different in FAP. Models aren't generally the product nor are they pitching it, so "b" models work, if the images work."

Dear KM,

Here I would pleasantly disagree with you! I have found that many if not most of my experimental/art shoots have led to discovering a technique that has immediate use in the commercial field. Art directors in the commercial field (specially in the magazine side of things) are more apt to allow you to experiment if you have previous results to show. 

Actually I was responding to Mary's post item #4 which specifically was in reference to knowing the difference between model types.  I agree that technical expertise is important for ANY photographer to stay on top of, or in control of.  But I was saying that FAP don't have to stay abreast of who is top fashion model whether it's Giselle or Adriana this week or Martina or Ixtiana the next.

Posted by NuruExpressions: 

Posted by Cameron Watson: 
man my spelling sucks... does it reflect in my photography?

Only if you mispell your copyright.

lol none of you guys can spell

Posted by Hugh  Jorgen: 
The ability to recreate that Awsome shot over and over again..And improve!!
It does not matter what area the photographer is in..
they could be shooting baby photos !!

As usual, he said it! I mean, you know confidence when you see it ;;D and really, the photographer that keeps you coming back for more is really worth working with.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
Correct me if I am wrong, but number 4 and 5 presumes that every Photographer in the entire online community is aspiring to be a full time Commercial Fashion Photographer. Whether you're aware of it, or not, you're also setting a precedent on two levels:

1) That models shouldn't work with Photographers who don't satisfy #4 and #5.

2) Photographers shouldn't join this community if they don't satisfy #4 and #5.

I agree with your first point; Mary's points 4 and 5 are largely aimed at commercial and/or fashion. That doesn't make them wrong; it simply puts them in a non-universal section. (That is, an exceptional commercial and/or fashion photographer should meet those requirements.)

Even so, your conclusions don't follow from your observation. They don't make sense based on either what she said herself, or what the thread asked, either. She answered what she felt 'defined' an exceptional photographer, not one who is worth shooting with at all (your first point), nor whether they're photographers at all (your second).

There are many competent but not exceptional photographers--by definition alone.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
A photographer (and a model) does not and should not always have to meet these kinds of criteria. Otherwise, all we're doing here is establishing an elitist society.

Doesn't that sound like you're expecting the answer to the question "what is a photographer", rather than "what is an exceptional photographer?

Posted by Joe K. Perez:
To answer the top question, "what makes them exceptional?", is simply when the modeling, or photography they do garners the interest and admiration by hundreds of people, or more.

That still begs the question, though. Saying that they're exceptional because they're exceptional isn't a helpful answer.

Posted by Kevin Connery: 

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
Correct me if I am wrong, but number 4 and 5 presumes that every Photographer in the entire online community is aspiring to be a full time Commercial Fashion Photographer. Whether you're aware of it, or not, you're also setting a precedent on two levels:

1) That models shouldn't work with Photographers who don't satisfy #4 and #5.

2) Photographers shouldn't join this community if they don't satisfy #4 and #5.

I agree with your first point; Mary's points 4 and 5 are largely aimed at commercial and/or fashion. That doesn't make them wrong; it simply puts them in a non-universal section. (That is, an exceptional commercial and/or fashion photographer should meet those requirements.)

Even so, your conclusions don't follow from your observation. They don't make sense based on either what she said herself, or what the thread asked, either. She answered what she felt 'defined' an exceptional photographer, not one who is worth shooting with at all (your first point), nor whether they're photographers at all (your second).

There are many competent but not exceptional photographers--by definition alone.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
A photographer (and a model) does not and should not always have to meet these kinds of criteria. Otherwise, all we're doing here is establishing an elitist society.

Doesn't that sound like you're expecting the answer to the question "what is a photographer", rather than "what is an exceptional photographer?

Posted by Joe K. Perez:
To answer the top question, "what makes them exceptional?", is simply when the modeling, or photography they do garners the interest and admiration by hundreds of people, or more.

That still begs the question, though. Saying that they're exceptional because they're exceptional isn't a helpful answer. 

Thanks Kevin, that sums it up for me.

I also noticed your portfolio, very nice.  You work with Christy Scott!!!    A beautiful human being and a wonderful artist

Posted by Kevin Connery: 

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
Correct me if I am wrong, but number 4 and 5 presumes that every Photographer in the entire online community is aspiring to be a full time Commercial Fashion Photographer. Whether you're aware of it, or not, you're also setting a precedent on two levels:

1) That models shouldn't work with Photographers who don't satisfy #4 and #5.

2) Photographers shouldn't join this community if they don't satisfy #4 and #5.

I agree with your first point; Mary's points 4 and 5 are largely aimed at commercial and/or fashion. That doesn't make them wrong; it simply puts them in a non-universal section. (That is, an exceptional commercial and/or fashion photographer should meet those requirements.)

Even so, your conclusions don't follow from your observation. They don't make sense based on either what she said herself, or what the thread asked, either. She answered what she felt 'defined' an exceptional photographer, not one who is worth shooting with at all (your first point), nor whether they're photographers at all (your second).

There are many competent but not exceptional photographers--by definition alone.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
A photographer (and a model) does not and should not always have to meet these kinds of criteria. Otherwise, all we're doing here is establishing an elitist society.

Doesn't that sound like you're expecting the answer to the question "what is a photographer", rather than "what is an exceptional photographer?

Posted by Joe K. Perez:
To answer the top question, "what makes them exceptional?", is simply when the modeling, or photography they do garners the interest and admiration by hundreds of people, or more.

That still begs the question, though. Saying that they're exceptional because they're exceptional isn't a helpful answer. 

Posted by Mary: 
...snip...
Joe,  As I said before, this is what I look for in a photographer, and as I said before, I'm not trying to represent the industry standard.
...snip...

Right. I accidentally skipped the previous post where you wrote that.