Posted by XtremeArtists: 
You have stuff for sale on the site, so it may not seem selfless to outsiders.

Non profit organizations pay salaries to employees.

Irina sells the merchandise, she owns the company. I just provide a link on MY site, so if people are interested in purchasing professional tools, its easier for them.

I DONT profit in any way, which is why I said its non profit. I get no personal gain, or make any money for how many "hits" my site gets. She didn't pay me to put her up there either, I chose to..... I linked to her site because I wanted to make life easier for people who wanted the brushes etc. Thats IT. Sheesh....


I guess I am getting stoned to death b/c I have other model's interests at hand *gasp*

Posted by Veronica121679: 
It was a very extensive program and to say it means ZERO, simply is your opinion. I agree to disagree, so be it. I don't know where YOU are, but in NJ you have to be certified to practice makeup legally, as far as I have been taught, and be licensed to perform facials, do eyebrow waxing, nails and things of that nature. Maybe I'll call Irina and get the specifics, since certain people here are hanging on every word I type........

Please look it up for yourself, don't listen to your instructor.

In fact, I'll help you out.  NJ has an entertainment clause in the state board regulations.  If you are working solely on models and actors for print, production, and theater, then you don't need a license or certification.

If you are working on civilians, this means the everyday woman, the brides, the prom girls, the mothers, the grandmothers, then you must be licensed by the state of NJ.

Certification does not mean you are licensed.  It means you paid money to someone, and they then wrote your name on a certificate.  Nobody cares.  Really.  You can buy certificate paper at the local office supply and write your own name on it and be certified to do whatever you want.

If you actually believe you are covered to work on brides, in NJ, without a license, you are simply wrong.  If your teacher told you that, she lied.

Since I seem to be on trial here; here is my teacher's bio: http://www.image-and-beauty.com/biography.htm.

She learned from magazines and then taught in Russia for 10 years.  She came over here and was taught by a couple people I've never heard of (and got certified!) and now teaches herself.  But what's her resume really?  Based on her site, all I could find were some before and after shots.  Some were fine, some were a bit scary.  She's teaching celebrity makeup, but I see NO shots of celebs anywhere on her site, no resume suggesting she's worked with that level of client.  What QUALIFIES her to teach this stuff?

Btw, the women in Russia are STILL wearing their makeup as if it's the 80's.  It's her background in Russia that sets the pace for the singular style makeup I saw on her site.

The rules you mention on your site are indeed outdated, and don't work for most of what I do.  Unless I have an 80's shoot coming up.


To help you out some more, here's the link to the NJ state board. 
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/nonmedical/coshair.htm

And, if you do makeup in another state, you should look up those states as well.  NY's laws are very different.

Posted by Makayla: 
Ok while on the subject of foundation... Does anyone know of a good foundation for body? ie. to use on scars, blemishes, red areas etc.

I've tried Dermablend, and unless they changed their formulation, I personally wouldn't go back.

I love Cinema Secrets for coverage, it's a lot easier to use, a lot cheaper, and you don't need a chisel (or special cleaner) to get it off.

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Herb Way: 
Veronica, you're my kind of lady!  Some people let a little moderator status go their heads.

Because I wasn't blunt before I was a moderator?

Yes, blunt and obnoxious and you wear it like a badge of honor.  Apparently, you really get off on being MM's version of Simon. 

Could one of you twentysomethings or thirtysomethings out there please explain to this baby boomer just what there is about popular culture that makes being rude and obnoxious such a cool thing?

Posted by Veronica121679: 
Oh and Theda, I don't understand what your problem is. Why your choosing to single me out like I am some bad guy. Seriously if you think I am trying to get any type of personal gain by sending them to curvytrends, your seriously delusional. Hey, your in NYC right? I am 15 minutes away if you'd like to come discuss this. haha.

First of all, YES I am trying to HELP models who are starting out and YES I have a web site for that. That is why I created CurvyTrends.com to begin with, to help aspiring models who wanted to do this as a career choice, but didn't know how to start out.

Why wouldn't I send someone there? Where I KNOW they are getting valuable info and they don't have to visit 20 different web sites with all types of different information. I personally did the research, talked to the industry professionals, seasoned models, agencies, photographers; had the personal experiences and put it all on one page for THEM. Its not any sort of self promotion, I PAY for the site out of pocket, NO ONE ELSE. I built it and I designed it & keep it running.

It is COMPLETEY NON PROFIT.

I am merely helping models who need advice, and some basic knowledge. That is my only intent. Now if that makes you want to single me out and respond to every post I make in a rude, unprofessional and condescending way, then you really need to find a better hobby, or "pick on" someone who deserves it, I work too damn hard to be judged by someone who has the "holier than thou" syndrome.

Get off my f'n back.

Posted by Herb Way: 
Could one of you twentysomethings or thirtysomethings out there please explain to this baby boomer just what there is about popular culture that makes being rude and obnoxious such a cool thing?

It's similar to how the old farts are judgemental and think they are the arbiters of taste and propriety.

Young people get to be the judge of coolness.

Posted by leokitty2012: 
I'm sorry to hear that- yea, I forgot you said you had sensitive skin- hopefully the Loreal will work on you.  It also has a great SPF in it too.  Best of luck with your makeup endeavors.

Isn't sun screan one of the primary things to avoid in make-up for print work?

Posted by Weldphoto: 
Stepping into a cat fight may be stupid, but here goes.
It would be helpful to me and perhaps to others if the MUA here could suggest to us photographers who really don't understand this make-up stuff but rely on it a lot, a book which will help us when a new girl needs help and the services of a wonderful MAU are not available?  Something simple, remember we are mostly men and even worse, photographers. Lots of pictures would help.

Here are a bunch of books:  http://www.makeupfaq.com/html/resources.html
There's a new one coming out that Amazon doesn't know about yet, by Vincent Kehoe and Joe Blasco. 

I'm serious. I know next to nothing about this magic other than Prep- H helps under eye bags... or is that even right?

No, not anymore.  They removed the ingredient that made it work.

You may want to consider hiring an artist to teach you the basics, and you can also learn what to look for in how to find a good artist for your budget.


(edited to try to make a clickable link, but it's not working)

Posted by theda: 

Isn't sun screan one of the primary things to avoid in make-up for print work?

Yes, if there's a flash involved in the shot.  The titanium dioxide used as the SPF will create an ashy, light, flashback effect.

I simply avoid SPF foundations, and go straight to the print/film/theater brands like Cinema Secrets, Kryolan, etc.

Posted by Weldphoto: 
Stepping into a cat fight may be stupid, but here goes.
It would be helpful to me and perhaps to others if the MUA here could suggest to us photographers who really don't understand this make-up stuff but rely on it a lot, a book which will help us when a new girl needs help and the services of a wonderful MAU are not available?  Something simple, remember we are mostly men and even worse, photographers. Lots of pictures would help.
I'm serious. I know next to nothing about this magic other than Prep- H helps under eye bags... or is that even right?
Thanks, and be nice. We all need to learn. At least I do.

sounds like you're begging for another shameless plug and so, I'll insert one here.

RCMA has a great pallet for every skin tone.  If you have these in your sudio there isnt anyone that they wont cover.  WWW.CameraReadyCosmetics.com  See 16 color RCMA pallet, there are 2, a KO and a SHINTO.  This makeup and Cinema Secrets is what I use on everyone and so you can see it in action www.TheMakeupArtist.com   I also cover with the oil blotting compact found in the same on-line store.  This will cover every skin color and won't build up. 

The best advice I can give photographers is to pay attention to the makeup. If it doesnt look right dont assume it's going to look any better when the film comes back (if you're still a film guy).  If you see unblended makeup that looks garish, point it out...if you see that face is a different color then the body point it out....a professional makeup doesn't change color in photographs.  The best photographers that I work with will not shoot if the makeup isn't perfect, they know good makeup hair and styling....pay attention to it in magazines, get familiar with what it should look like (not what you see on the web but in W, Vogue, etc)

Posted by theda: 
I did look into dermablend once. the lightest shade was too dark and too yellowish for me.

Are there hypoallergenic print quality make up brands? Investing in a very expensive make up pallette only to discover I can't wear it has me avoiding buying good make up entirely.

Theda, go visit Alcone, they have two locations in NYC.  You can also visit The Makeup Shop (they custom blend there).  One Alcone location is just a couple blocks from The Makeup Shop.

You will find a lot of pro level makeup to choose from, and the people will help you find your matching color.  You may even be able to test the products for sensitivity.

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by theda: 
I did look into dermablend once. the lightest shade was too dark and too yellowish for me.

Are there hypoallergenic print quality make up brands? Investing in a very expensive make up pallette only to discover I can't wear it has me avoiding buying good make up entirely.

Theda, go visit Alcone, they have two locations in NYC.  You can also visit The Makeup Shop (they custom blend there).  One Alcone location is just a couple blocks from The Makeup Shop.

You will find a lot of pro level makeup to choose from, and the people will help you find your matching color.  You may even be able to test the products for sensitivity.

Thanks. I'll try that.

Posted by leokitty2012: 
Makayla-

Loreal has a new foundation out called "infallible", it supposedly lasts about 16 hours (double the time of most), and leaves a very smooth finish- I can attest to the staying power, because the first time i used it was at a scorching hot shoot in the aptly named Valley of Fire, NV.  Altough she was profusely sweating during the shoot, the only thing i had to do was pat the sweaty areas dry, and the makeup hadn't budged.... I was amazed....lol
But back to the point-  I normally start with a basic concealer, pat it over the problem areas, and continue on with the foundation, makeup and then finishing powder, and then you're done.  I have been very pleased with this foundation.  (it can be found in pretty much every drug store/grocery store).  Another product to consider is this new spray on airbrush that I have been experimenting with- it's very smooth, and gives the fresh faced look.  It can also be found at most drug store/grocery store, and i think the brand was Sally Hansen...

Mary- great point on the fact that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.  You don't use the same procedure on every model, it's impossible.  There are little things like bone structure, blemishes, eye shapes, etc. , etc. that vary from model to model.  To think that there is a standard makeup practice is absurd.... that's why we're called makeup "artists". 

Anywho, i think I am done.  it just bothers me to see a "professional" mua who doesn't know their craft in its entirety, but yet wont take practical advice.  It's fine not to know everything (no one does) but atleast be open to advice, and realize it is possible to be wrong about something.  It's all learning baby, and some of the most skilled people are self taught, or learn from others who are ACTUALLY IN THE INDUSTRY.     

Wow, i wrote a lot.... sorry

First of all, I haven't read any good advice on here for me to take on this thread. I was blatantly told my teacher's worth is shit and everything she has taught me was shit, & the certificaation is meaningless. A few cast stones because I sent them over to the web site because I was taught there is in fact a very general procedure, I thought I'd share.

Also if you read one of my last posts, I agreed 110% that everyone is different, and yes that IS why we are the artists. I never said I worked with fashion models all day either, I worked with many aspiring models from OMP/musecube, along with special occasions, weddings, and things of that nature. I have only been practicing makeup since October, and have done quite well for myself since then. I love what I do; therefore to try to insult my integrity as an artist b/c you don't feel I'm not "actually in the industry," simply proves you know absolutely nothing about me, my career, or my life.

Posted by Veronica121679: 
First of all, I haven't read any good advice on here for me to take on this thread. I was blatantly told my teacher's worth is shit and everything she has taught me was shit, & the certificaation is meaningless. A few cast stones because I sent them over to the web site because I was taught there is in fact a very general procedure, I thought I'd share.

Also if you read one of my last posts, I agreed 110% that everyone is different, and yes that IS why we are the artists. I never said I worked with fashion models all day either, I worked with many aspiring models from OMP/musecube, along with special occasions, weddings, and things of that nature. I have only been practicing makeup since October, and have done quite well for myself since then. I love what I do; therefore to try to insult my integrity as an artist b/c you don't feel I'm not "actually in the industry," simply proves you know absolutely nothing about me, my career, or my life. 

You can go ahead and believe everything your instructor taught you.  But I guarantee that state board regulations trumps what your instructor said about certification.  And if she's honestly wrong about that, it is in fact possible that she's wrong about something else.

Go take classes from real pros in the industry, people with solid resumes and photos to back them up.  Learn from them.  Irina is far from the only game in town, and certainly doesn't represent the majority of the pro level world.

Furthermore, I'd recommend getting out of NJ, at least educationally speaking.  In NYC, you will find The Powder Group and The Makeup Shop, both excellent resources offering excellent classes.

Do you just want aspiring OMP models and brides for your career?  Then stay put.  Do you actually want to grow in this field?  Do you want agency models?  Do you want $500-$1000 a day jobs?  Take other classes.  Learn from other experts.  Don't listen to us on a forum, we've cleary proven (to you) we have nothing to offer.

First of all, I haven't read any good advice on here for me to take on this thread. I was blatantly told my teacher's worth is shit and everything she has taught me was shit, & the certificaation is meaningless. A few cast stones because I sent them over to the web site because I was taught there is in fact a very general procedure, I thought I'd share.

You could have learned (had you listened with an open mind) more on this one thread then you did taking the entire course you took.  You learned here you do not need a certificate (wouldn't that have helped you before you spent the money?)  You learned that people lie on their resumes, actual schools do it all the time.  You learned that you were taught application that has not been done in this country since the 80's.   

None of this was meant to attack you, but thats the way you decided to take it, thats a shame because thats going to hinder progress you would otherwise make in this business.

Really good artists change every day, makeup and hair like fashion changes before you get the last tecnique down....thats why a book on straight makeup application would be a waste of paper.

  Photography changes constantly so what we do for print one day will not necessarily apply the next....thats whats dangerous about schools...these peolpe if they ever were in the industry leave it to teach, as they are teaching the industry is changing around them but they're clueless. They stay stagnent with the info that was true when they exited the industry (or makeup counter in most cases)

Workshops where you have an active industry professional doing a one or 2 day class would be more benificial. 

Posted by Weldphoto: 
I know next to nothing about this magic other than Prep- H helps under eye bags... or is that even right?
Thanks, and be nice. We all need to learn. At least I do.

Yes that trick does work because of the witch hazel in prep-h.

Also can everyone just shut up about who's better than who here? I don't care if you learned makeup from a magizine or midget. Its the results that matter. Eveyone does things a little differently but if it works for you than go with it.

Posted by Mary: 

First of all, I haven't read any good advice on here for me to take on this thread. I was blatantly told my teacher's worth is shit and everything she has taught me was shit, & the certificaation is meaningless. A few cast stones because I sent them over to the web site because I was taught there is in fact a very general procedure, I thought I'd share.

You could have learned (had you listened with an open mind) more on this one thread then you did taking the entire course you took.  You learned here you do not need a certificate (wouldn't that have helped you before you spent the money?)  You learned that people lie on their resumes, actual schools do it all the time.  You learned that you were taught application that has not been done in this country since the 80's.   

None of this was meant to attack you, but thats the way you decided to take it, thats a shame because thats going to hinder progress you would otherwise make in this business.

Really good artists change every day, makeup and hair like fashion changes before you get the last tecnique down....thats why a book on straight makeup application would be a waste of paper.

  Photography changes constantly so what we do for print one day will not necessarily apply the next....thats whats dangerous about schools...these peolpe if they ever were in the industry leave it to teach, as they are teaching the industry is changing around them but they're clueless. They stay stagnent with the info that was true when they exited the industry (or makeup counter in most cases)

Workshops where you have an active industry professional doing a one or 2 day class would be more benificial.   

Thank you and EmElle for your thought out posts and responses.....there is no bad blood, we are all artists, and we should all be there for one another.

I am very open minded, but trust me, just imagine how YOU would feel if you were ganged up on (seemingly) and told everything you were taught was crap?? Lets be realistic.

I have only been practicing makeup since October, and believe it or not, I have taken everything you have said, especially the last posts by both of you very seriously.

Posted by Leila: 

Posted by Weldphoto: 
I know next to nothing about this magic other than Prep- H helps under eye bags... or is that even right?
Thanks, and be nice. We all need to learn. At least I do.

Yes that trick does work because of the witch hazel in prep-h.

Also can everyone just shut up about who's better than who here? I don't care if you learned makeup from a magizine or midget. Its the results that matter. Eveyone does things a little differently but if it works for you than go with it.

nobody on this thread has been of the "better then the other" mindset that I can see.  We are all in different places in our journey.  I'm more towards the end of the journey and I can tell someone at the beginning where the potholes are...thats what I'm doing.

If you see advice given here like an "I'm better" mentality I can honestly say you are reading into the posts things that are not there.  Try to read posts with an open mind, not defensively but try to take them exactly as they are written.

Veronica, if you ever have questions feel free to email me.

Posted by Leila: 

Posted by Weldphoto: 
I know next to nothing about this magic other than Prep- H helps under eye bags... or is that even right?
Thanks, and be nice. We all need to learn. At least I do.

Yes that trick does work because of the witch hazel in prep-h.

Also can everyone just shut up about who's better than who here? I don't care if you learned makeup from a magizine or midget. Its the results that matter. Eveyone does things a little differently but if it works for you than go with it.

Cheers to that!



Mary.....thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.