Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.

I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

Generally, I'd say just let it go.  Chances are they will never find you from her page which is where they would be looking for references and while what you are doing may be the right thing to do other people may view it is unneeded drama.

It isn't worth the effort.  Chalk it up to part of doing business  on MM and move on, in my opinion.

David Cajio Photography wrote:
It isn't worth the effort.  Chalk it up to part of doing business  on MM and move on, in my opinion.

I'm with David on this, it's what happens, move on.  Don't sweat the small stuff.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
But you didn't work with her.

I don't understand.

He is doing it in a round about way to get people ask for a reference.  Which they never will and it won't matter to her anyway.  If she flakes do you think she gives a shit who says what about her?  Just move on.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

Black lists are a bad idea.  Any time I see a black list on a model's profile, I simply pass on her.  I don't do TF so I am choosing not to book and hire the model.  I hire hundreds of models every year.

The way I see it, I never know if a complaint about someone is legitimate or if the complainer is the problem, so I just ignore the person who complained.  The last thing I want is someone pounding their chest about me when they were the cause of the failure.

Black lists make you look worse than the offender.  My advice, don't list her.

David Cajio Photography wrote:
Generally, I'd say just let it go.  Chances are they will never find you from her page which is where they would be looking for references and while what you are doing may be the right thing to do other people may view it is unneeded drama.

It isn't worth the effort.  Chalk it up to part of doing business  on MM and move on, in my opinion.

Good Point

I forgot to consider how people would find me.

Everyone is right, it's not worth sweating.

Plus like I said I'm not upset. Just would have been nice to spare others the same waste of time.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.

I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

  Maybe have a list named:

"Models I almost worked with."

Frank Stephens III wrote:

Good Point

I forgot to consider how people would find me.

Everyone is right, it's not worth sweating.

Plus like I said I'm not upset. Just would have been nice to spare others the same waste of time.

You should be upset and have every right to.  It is rude and inappropriate behavior.  Just don't let it get to you and expect it to happen.  This is MM and it happens daily, sadly.

Good attitude, just keep on chugging and things will get better.

David Cajio Photography wrote:

You should be upset and have every right to.  It is rude and inappropriate behavior.

I don't get upset because, to me, getting upset would just allow that flaky model to waste even more of my time and energy that should be going towards doing something productive.

Besides there's no way to channel that anger.
Writing her a nasty email would only make me look like the bad guy anyways.

But hopefully I can learn from this and be better at spotting flakes in the future.

Frank Stephens III wrote:

Good Point

I forgot to consider how people would find me.

Everyone is right, it's not worth sweating.

Plus like I said I'm not upset. Just would have been nice to spare others the same waste of time.

Just keep a private list in case anyone asks in the future.

It's funny to me that someone can have an opinion on shitty service at a restaurant or a bad dye job from a hair stylist and yet MM has such an issue over outing some rude model who didn't have the common courtesy to call. Personally I rarely have flakes any more but those who did in the past won't ever get a paid gig from me in the future. You call it drama, I call it covering my ass.

The Falcons Nest wrote:
Whats really hilarious is when a week after the no call no show, they answer another one of your casting calls. Just move on.

Oh man, those are the best.  I haven't had a flake in forever, but that does bring back memories

Danny DD wrote:
Just make note of her for your own sake, so she won't do this to you a second time.  Public blacklisting seems illegal, but it may help sharing private blacklists with people in your area.  It's often the same names returning for flaking, and they don't seem to care the least, and even like someone said they might contact you again in future themselves, not even realizing they flaked on you before...

how is a public blacklist illegal?

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
how is a public blacklist illegal?

I know it's illegal where I live (has to do with privacy law, slander, etc).  I don't know how it is in the USA, but I noted that here on MM people can't put names to flakers either or the post will be deleted.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.

I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

Don't even give it a second thought. At least in terms of concerning yourself with a flake. Your choices are a) move on b) choose to give her another shot if and when you ever hear from her again or c) harbor a grudge and place her on your profile as someone you would not recommend. I, personally, would opt for option A as flakes just aren't worth the time and effort.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
=========

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

=======

OP, what you do is this:

Put the flakes on your favorites list, then about every 6 months go back and you will probably notice they have not updated their portfolios, but still have lofty comments about how much they love to be a model and want someone to help them.

Then 6 months later go back and see the same old images, same old comments.  Then just smile and get on with life.

I have 4 models on my favorites list like this. 

In other words, there is no need to tell anyone about them;  they usually do that by themselves.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.

I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

My opinion...

Your profile is for making a positive first impression. 
Focus your profile on your successes, your abilities, and you aspirations.
You didn't work with that model, so listing her in your "Worked With" list is a lie.
Devoting any part of your profile to negative vibes is never a good idea.

So, I wouldn't.

I wonder -- did you check references for this model?  If not, then why do you expect other photographers to check references on her with you?

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

I actually think you're solution is the best one I've heard on here.  Pretty genius.  Blacklists, as others have said, are a bit lame.  They make you look slightly petty and aren't really considered a good idea.

However, just listing her under your "models worked with" removes the stigma of a blacklist.  Then if somebody was looking for references and contacted you, you could still give them your experience without publicly "outing" the model.  I think you've stumbled across a pretty good solution, IMO.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others

What should a dentist do if a patient doesn't show for an appointment?
What should a brake specialist do if someone doesn't show up with their car?
What should any professional do when someone is a no-show?

Get over it . . . move on to the next . . . don't try to change the world.

I'm sure you can spend some extra time in photoshop or doing your taxes or anything else productive with the free time that suddenly became available

KM

Chris Vinnit wrote:
I actually think you're solution is the best one I've heard on here.  Pretty genius.  Blacklists, as others have said, are a bit lame.  They make you look slightly petty and aren't really considered a good idea.

However, just listing her under your "models worked with" removes the stigma of a blacklist.  Then if somebody was looking for references and contacted you, you could still give them your experience without publicly "outing" the model.  I think you've stumbled across a pretty good solution, IMO.

ROFL....  The conversation goes like this?

Hey, I noticed yo worked with _____________.  What about her?
I didn't work with her, she flaked?
But you have her on your list of "models I worked with"?
Yeah, I just did that so I could warn other photographers.
So then you didn't tell the truth about working with her?
Nope.
OK. I believe you, I guess, but wait... hey... never mind.

Then that photographer might just remember there are always two sides to a story.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

My opinion...

Your profile is for making a positive first impression. 
Focus your profile on your successes, your abilities, and you aspirations.
You didn't work with that model, so listing her in your "Worked With" list is a lie.
Devoting any part of your profile to negative vibes is never a good idea.

So, I wouldn't.

I wonder -- did you check references for this model?  If not, then why do you expect other photographers to check references on her with you?

You've long advocated that checking references is a way to avoid flakes. The OP's option is pretty much the only way that your method would work. It's a tautology: The only references available are the ones for whom the model showed up.

Danny DD wrote:

I know it's illegal where I live (has to do with privacy law, slander, etc).  I don't know how it is in the USA, but I noted that here on MM people can't put names to flakers either or the post will be deleted.

It is not slander if it's fact (slander is spoken anyway, libel is written). Simply stating "Had a shoot booked with X model who did not turn up, and I have had no further communication from her" is not illegal, even in Belgium.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.

I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.

But I was wondering.

Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?

I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

don't let it get to you

I don't do too many TFs but I have a flake today as well.
like you it was a TF, on location shoot.
I had mua and location was booked in advance,
she did not show up as I suspected.
I knew  she would not show up as she stopped exchanging e mail, and pms, sms text 7 days ago, I haven't heard a peep from her since last Friday. After 2 pms, 2 e-mails and 2 sms texts I knew..

What a waste of time considering it took us more then a month to schedule this.

Probably she is busy with her finals and such, because I know she is a student.
Avoid all shoots from mid May to Mid June with all hobbyist/student models.
Their priorities are more important.
I hope she is not sick or something bad happened to her, causing her week long silence. As my last pm to her 2 days ago shows as "unread"

I would not expose her, put in black lists and brag about how badly it affected my work etc.
it is bad carma.
In life what goes around comes around

matt-h2 wrote:

You've long advocated that checking references is a way to avoid flakes. The OP's option is pretty much the only way that your method would work. It's a tautology: The only references available are the ones for whom the model showed up.

I disagree.

We in Portland enjoy an extensive network of similar minded photographers of all experience levels.  We share references, both good & bad. 

There are lots of ways to check references...
...  The names provided by the model,
...  The photographers referenced in her portfolio,
...  The photographers & models & MUAs local to the model,
...  The photographers, etc. local to you.

The listing of the model under a "Who I've Worked With" list doesn't play into the process at all.  If anything, it gives the impression of an implied recommendation -- see, here's another photographer who has  worked with this model.

My position:  if you don't do the homework, you shouldn't complain about the results.

Frank Stephens III wrote:
Well, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later.
I had my first model flake and not show for a TF shoot and haven't heard a peep from her.
I really don't feel the need to get bent out of shape about it.
But I was wondering.
Should I list her under my "Models Worked With" list so I can warn others in case they contact me for a reference?
I wasn't sure what the etiquette was on that?

Black list her. You local black lists do wonders. They do work!

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
What should a dentist do if a patient doesn't show for an appointment?
What should a brake specialist do if someone doesn't show up with their car?
What should any professional do when someone is a no-show?

With all due respect Ken, You know I'm one of your admirer. But I have to disagree with you on this. Totally different situations. Dentists, brake specialists, or any other professionals, that's the price they pay for doing business. But I don't think op's situation is business aka paid job.

You see if you say move on and live, would the Dentists, brake specialists, or any other professionals move on if you don't pay your bills? No, they will put your on collection.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I disagree.

We in Portland enjoy an extensive network of similar minded photographers of all experience levels.  We share references, both good & bad. 

There are lots of ways to check references...
...  The names provided by the model,
...  The photographers referenced in her portfolio,
...  The photographers & models & MUAs local to the model,
...  The photographers, etc. local to you.

The listing of the model under a "Who I've Worked With" list doesn't play into the process at all.  If anything, it gives the impression of an implied recommendation -- see, here's another photographer who has  worked with this model.

My position:  if you don't do the homework, you shouldn't complain about the results.

That sounds like a good system. I would observe that Portland is a much smaller market than the SF Bay Area, for example, so what works in one place (or for one photographer) might not work for others.

Nelia wrote:
After a rash of 'Model" pulling "no shows / no call", I created a "I can not recommend " list.  I only have 2 "Models" on the list, but I have had a couple of Photographers ask about one of them and I tell them the facts about her no show no call for the shoot.

Models flake for lots of reasons. None professional, but nonetheless, lots of reasons. I see no connection that if a model flakes on you that she'll flake on me.

Perhaps she got cold feet right before your shoot and bailed, thinking she'd be wasting your time if she couldn't go though with the nude work. And she was too embarrassed to say so. Perhaps I am offering something very different and more desired by the model so it rates higher on her priority list.

Who knows. But when we work with MM people, we have to accept the responsibility that this isn't so much a professional resource as much as a social networking site. No one is hanging their reputation on the line with any shoot scheduled here.

It's still frustrating as all hell, but creating a "can not recommend" list just seems spiteful and childish.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
but creating a "can not recommend" list just seems spiteful and childish.

Thank you so much for your opinion!  I wish I could say that I care what you think!  In this day of easy communications (cell phones, e-mail, land line phones), there is absolutely no reason to be professional enough to call and cancel. If you changed your mind about the shoot, then so be it and just say so!   A lot of time & planning go into these shoots most time and to waste other people's time and money is not acceptable at all!

One of the Photographers that contacted me about a "Model" was being to feel like he was being jerked around by the model, I just confirmed his suspisions.  I do not see the difference in my having a list stating that "I can not recommend" versus giving a reference and stating the same thing.

Again, your opinion means absolutely nothing to me.  The OP asked what people do in the situation and I stated it!  I will do what works best for me... please continue to do what works best for you!

Photography by BE wrote:
  Maybe have a list named:

"Models I almost worked with."

Hehehe...got a chuckle out of that.

How about a photo of an empty set?
With credits duly noted...