MelissaAnn  wrote:
The other side of that argument would be this: It could be perceived as truly narcissistic to expect a response from every random person that you send an unsolicited offer to, especially when you're messaging people with much better reputations and quality of work than your own.  If some llamas (or photographers for that matter) answered every inquiry they received, there would be no time left in the day for them to get any actual work done.  I don't think you realize how many messages some people receive, and how much traveling some people need to do. Unfortunately, answering every message is just not always possible.

following your logic, not to respond sending message not that you are bussy and do not have time but that you are "too high in the clouds" to talk to normal people here at the gound.

someone can read that like: you are small person not important for my response. how narcissistic is that?

reading your responses to other MM members I see your stand: my way or highway.

You are not responding to e-mails you receive and if that's OK with you, who are we to complain about it or critisize you? If that's how you see professionalism in any business. good luck.

what people here trying to say is that in any business there must (or at least should) be some professionalism. respond to normal e-mail should be sent back. it is a matter of manners and business relations (I see llamaing/photographing as mode of business mixed with pleasure (professional one), don't you?).

and none of us is that bussy not to have 3 minutes to type simple e-mail in 2 weeks time. no one.

your unrealistic high opinion about your self is stunning.

denis071 wrote:

following your logic, not to respond sending message not that you are bussy and do not have time but that you are "too high in the clouds" to talk to normal people here at the gound.

someone can read that like: you are small person not important for my response. how narcissistic is that?

reading your responses to other MM members I see your stand: my way or highway.

You are not responding to e-mails you receive and if that's OK with you, who are we to complain about it or critisize you? If that's how you see professionalism in any business. good luck.

what people here trying to say is that in any business there must (or at least should) be some professionalism. respond to normal e-mail should be sent back. it is a matter of manners and business relations (I see modeling/photographing as mode of business mixed with pleasure (professional one), don't you?).

and none of us is that bussy not to have 3 minutes to type simple e-mail in 2 weeks time. no one.

your unrealistic high opinion about your self is stunning.

It's more like "my way or the sucks for you but you have no input on what I do or don't do so it's just my way"

DougBPhoto wrote:
Perhaps you misunderstood me.

I was NOT saying that I agreed with "no response is a response", I was simply saying that it is a VERY common opinion on this site, and very common in the real world.   I did NOT say whether I thought it was good or bad, JUST that it is common.

You commented that replying is a matter of cultural respect, I see you are writing from Sarajevo, I am writing from the USA and the USA is where a majority of MM's users are from.  Your culture may still look at this question that way, but what is common in the USA may be different, and may more closely follow the information I was trying to share.

You can feel free to disagree with me about how common it is on the site, I have no problem with that.  (Although you've been on the site for a year, I'm going on 5 years here, 31,000+ forum posts compared to your 45,  it seems quite possible that I've heard this matter discussed in the forums frequently enough to get a feeling for how common it is.)

However, to state you disagree with me on what I personally believe (I did not express my beliefs, only my observations) and make disrespectful comments about how much I respect myself when I was simply expressing my observations.

I'm sorry, that is uncalled for and disrespectful of you.

My post wasn't disrespectful at all.

Read it again and it says that one who doesn't answer is sending disrespect to a sender. if you found your self there, sorry, it is up to you.

on the other hand, if you get used not to get answers to your questions, it is ok with me. I can hardly accept it as modern way of communication, something that is common thing among people etc etc etc. it looks like that people are forgetting just to be nice to each other and send simple 1 line, few words response.

and at the end, I can hardly see that the number of posts and years spent here can be relevant for any discussion which is excahnge of opinions, experience and beleives, not counting the number of posts in forum.

respect.

Miser Photography wrote:
Not one person networking on this site is too busy to simply reply with a "not interested because ...."

If the photographer takes the time to look at your portfolio, read your profile and decide to contact you for possible work, you should at least take the time to be courteous enough to reply.

There is rarely an excuse to not reply. There is no "this is the new model for business communication" as people here have stated. If you took the time to offer a quick reason as to not wanting to work, you would get a lot more respect and less mire raking over it.

Look at it this way......if you see a photographers work you like a lot and you know can help your portfolio; you contact them and they don't reply to you....how would you feel?


Treat others as you wish to be treated. Plain and simple

Agree on all points.  I give full details, make sure I'm contacting the right kind of model within my area, etc etc.  I do everything right.  So when a model reads and doesn't reply, it just makes me think they're rude pieces of shit, that would probably pull a no-show anyway. So I just delete them from my friends and block their worthless asses.  I'm too old to deal with this kind of bullshit.

Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
I do everything right.  So when a model reads and doesn't reply, it just makes me think they're rude pieces of shit, that would probably pull a no-show anyway. So I just delete them from my friends and block their worthless asses.

Aren't you a darling.

Miser Photography wrote:
Not one person networking on this site is too busy to simply reply with a "not interested because ...."

If the photographer takes the time to look at your portfolio, read your profile and decide to contact you for possible work, you should at least take the time to be courteous enough to reply.

There is rarely an excuse to not reply. There is no "this is the new model for business communication" as people here have stated. If you took the time to offer a quick reason as to not wanting to work, you would get a lot more respect and less mire raking over it.

Look at it this way......if you see a photographers work you like a lot and you know can help your portfolio; you contact them and they don't reply to you....how would you feel?


Treat others as you wish to be treated. Plain and simple

Well how about the people like me who prefer not to get a no, thanks? I would rather have a no reply then a reply. So maybe some models feel that way and they go by your moto?

Most photographers including me do not get the barrage of emails that the good models get. It is a big deal to write 50 no thanks a day. Why you guys can't see that is a mystery.

Babalon Salome wrote:

Aren't you a darling.

Don't be impolite to him by being unresponsive, and you'll be rewarded with what I'm sure is a very sweet acceptance of his shoot request rejection.

Miser Photography wrote:
Not one person networking on this site is too busy to simply reply with a "not interested because ...."

If the photographer takes the time to look at your portfolio, read your profile and decide to contact you for possible work, you should at least take the time to be courteous enough to reply.

There is rarely an excuse to not reply. There is no "this is the new model for business communication" as people here have stated. If you took the time to offer a quick reason as to not wanting to work, you would get a lot more respect and less mire raking over it.

Look at it this way......if you see a photographers work you like a lot and you know can help your portfolio; you contact them and they don't reply to you....how would you feel?


Treat others as you wish to be treated. Plain and simple

Totally agree.  If one is so busy that you can't reply with a simple "sorry, not at this time..."  you have maxed out your networking and don't need this site anymore.

JadeDRed wrote:
This is subject to me is like eating meat/vegetarianism. Both reasonable stances, with valid reasoning behind them.

And yet the insecure little babies have to cry and whine and abuse the other side for not being the same as them, or even try to force them to conform to their beliefs.

Sad.

"You are in cattle country, eat beef you bastards!"

Australian Pro-beef car sticker.

FiveOne November wrote:
It's kind of like walking past someone in a hallway, saying "hello" and having that person completely ignore it.  It says more about the person who doesn't respond than the person who says "hello".

Actually if you often get snubbed by people in public places that probably says a lot about you.

JadeDRed wrote:
Actually if you often get snubbed by people in public places that probably says a lot about you.

It was a simile.  There was no indication of frequency of occurrence.

But I revise my statement to "it says something about each person equally." The one person reaches out to a stranger with a simple friendly greeting.  The other person is unable or unwilling to respond to a simple friendly greeting!

FiveOne November wrote:

It was a simile.  There was no indication of frequency of occurrence.

But I revise my statement to "it says something about each person equally." The one person reaches out to a stranger with a simple friendly greeting.  The other person is unable or unwilling to respond to a simple friendly greeting!

It's not friendly if it's obligating me to do something for fear of being judged. Then it's aggressive and rude.
If it really were just friendly, my response or lack thereof is irrelevant.

Damianne wrote:
It's not friendly if it's obligating me to do something for fear of being judged. Then it's aggressive and rude.
If it really were just friendly, my response or lack thereof is irrelevant.

This may be why I never promise to return comments on the main MM page. It's just too darn stressful to keep track! 

Miser Photography wrote:
Not one person networking on this site is too busy to simply reply with a "not interested because ...."

If the photographer takes the time to look at your portfolio, read your profile and decide to contact you for possible work, you should at least take the time to be courteous enough to reply.

There is rarely an excuse to not reply. There is no "this is the new llama for business communication" as people here have stated. If you took the time to offer a quick reason as to not wanting to work, you would get a lot more respect and less mire raking over it.

Look at it this way......if you see a photographers work you like a lot and you know can help your portfolio; you contact them and they don't reply to you....how would you feel?


Treat others as you wish to be treated. Plain and simple

When I dont get a response to my emails, I assume the answer is No and I move on. I prefer that over some lame attempt to not hurt my oh so precious feelings in turning me down.

So...I guess I AM treating others how I wish to be treated, and its working out pretty well for me. Thanks for the advice


And youre right, its absolutely not a new business llama for communication at all. Its a very old one.

Go put in some random job applications at your local shopping mall. Complain how rude they are when none of the ones that dont want you call you to personally tell you that you were not accepted. None of those international chains that make millions of dollars know how to run a professional business, obviously. Its really going to damage their reputation.

Mercia Productions wrote:
...To be blunt, I don't want to work with models who are rude and inconsiderate and I feel that the refusal to send even a simple "no thank you" puts them in that category.

the no response indicates the choice of working together wasn't yours.

Lanna_ wrote:
If someone sends me an inquiry that looks something like this, I can almost certainly guarantee that I will get a response back in a timely manner.  It may be a yes or no, but it will be a response.

Hi Lanna, (note how they used my name - I can tell it's not a completely blatant copy/paste)

I like your look, I especially like the work you did with (insert evidence of looking at my portfolio).


I'm looking to shoot a half day of (insert genre) and I have a mood board up here (link to evidence of actually putting thought into the shoot).

I'm hoping to shoot (insert range of dates) in (name of town).   

I (will or will not) have MU/H/styling available. (List who's on the team, if there is one.)

Take a look at my portfolio here (link to professional portfolio) and let me know if you're interested.

In return for your time, I can offer (TF edited images, money, barter, etc)

Thanks,
Coherent Non-creepy Photographer

I'm a bit late to the thread and I'm not trying to hijack it by any means but rather seek help.  The thread has definitely been helpful hearing from both photogs and esp. from the models.   Anyone who would be willing to take the time out of there busy day and PM me to help me would be greatly appreciated.   

The post above is very similar to what I will make my first message out to be.  I don't message any models who haven't accepted my friend request.   I don't ask any model to do any sort of shoot that doesn't coincide with the genres they have listed.  I  don't message any model outside a a 15 mile radius.  I never tell a model how hot they are, I want to take them out, basically (to my knowledge) I don't say anything creepy.   

I don't usually give a specific date because I work as a freelance cinematographer/gaffer and my shed.  is week by week and usually flexible (which I explain). 

I also usually explain that I prefer working with natural light (cuz I tend to work with lights all day at my job) and that I tend to not like using MUAs  cuz again I like a more natural, stripped down, raw look. 

I also might explain how I completely understand both of those aspects are needed for some specific ideas and I'm not closed to either. 

I do tell them that the shoot is TF ( I won't request that to anyone who's profile states they don't shoot TF) but that I'm not completely opposed to paying for a model.   I also offer that I'll pay for transportation and any other production costs

I message models who's profiles say "message me if you'd like to shoot" so I don't consider my messages to be "unsolicited" (which not to get off topic but isn't by joining MM, that's the point?)  I don't believe I am delusional in my view towards my own port.  (I know it's not gods gift to photography) but I believe I only message "models" with ports that are equal or lesser than mine.

So I'm obviously trying to figure out why models MAY not be answering my messages when I blatently see they are reading them and what can I do to change this. 

Is it my lack of credits (this is my first initial thinking) but frustrating at times just like when u go to apply for jobs that ask for 5+ years of experience..where to get my credentials if no one will give me a start!?

Does my port actually suck that much? (again I know my port isn't breathtaking by any means, but I feel I have avg. shots and can def.  improve)

Am I reaching out to the wrong models..should I suck it up and offer pay to them them or what even if they say they will do TF.

I have had some luck getting responses back and even have a couple shoots set up for te near future but I'd like to increase the %.   I don't get buttsore by any means when a model doesn't respond but I do get a bit frustrated thinking to myself "what am I saying or NOT saying to invoke a response"

Thank you in advance to anyone who offer up advice.   

Lastly,
I will flat out admit I do have models "friends" who's ports are out of my league but I tend to FR those who I believe I'm on par with based on their ports and what they write in their profiles.   

I'd love to hear from models as to why one would even accept a FR if you have zero intention of ever working with them?  Not to say this is always the case..I'm sure models have complete intentions on working with some photogs then get a message and decide not to collaborate based on what was written...but I'm sure what I hinted at is also an occurance.

denis071 wrote:
following your logic, not to respond sending message not that you are bussy and do not have time but that you are "too high in the clouds" to talk to normal people here at the gound.

someone can read that like: you are small person not important for my response. how narcissistic is that?

reading your responses to other MM members I see your stand: my way or highway.

You are not responding to e-mails you receive and if that's OK with you, who are we to complain about it or critisize you? If that's how you see professionalism in any business. good luck.

what people here trying to say is that in any business there must (or at least should) be some professionalism. respond to normal e-mail should be sent back. it is a matter of manners and business relations (I see modeling/photographing as mode of business mixed with pleasure (professional one), don't you?).

and none of us is that bussy not to have 3 minutes to type simple e-mail in 2 weeks time. no one.

your unrealistic high opinion about your self is stunning.

Very interesting logic.

I don't have a high opinion of myself at all.

There is no double standard here.  I don't take it personally when people don't respond to me, in fact, I usually don't give it a second thought.  I don't think I'm important enough to deserve a response from everyone, and I don't expect others to feel they are so important that they should automatically be entitled to a response from me (a perfect stranger who may have no desire to establish a relationship with them). 

See?  I wouldn't expect someone to do something that I wasn't willing to do myself, because I don't see myself as anything special.  I *don't* deserve any sort of preferential treatment, and I would never ask for it.....I just find it funny when others do.

I don't think people who choose to respond to all their messages are "wrong" (I never said that anywhere) and I'm certainly not going to try and convince them that they should start doing things my way.  I realize that my way is not the only "right" way to do things, which is why I'm not harping on the people who choose to respond to every message.  I'm simply disagreeing with the people telling me that *my* way is wrong, and those thinking it's realistic to expect a response from everyone.  Neither way is wrong.  Did you read the thread?

People should do what works for them, and stop trying to control the behavior of others.  I understand people who choose to respond to all messages, and I accept that their way of doing things may be right for them. I never said otherwise anywhere in this thread.

Damianne wrote:
Don't be impolite to him by being unresponsive, and you'll be rewarded with what I'm sure is a very sweet acceptance of his shoot request rejection.

My point exactly.

Also I am sure he is the loveliest human being to be around.

Laura UnBound wrote:

When I dont get a response to my emails, I assume the answer is No and I move on. I prefer that over some lame attempt to not hurt my oh so precious feelings in turning me down.

So...I guess I AM treating others how I wish to be treated, and its working out pretty well for me. Thanks for the advice


And youre right, its absolutely not a new business model for communication at all. Its a very old one.

Go put in some random job applications at your local shopping mall. Complain how rude they are when none of the ones that dont want you call you to personally tell you that you were not accepted. None of those international chains that make millions of dollars know how to run a professional business, obviously. Its really going to damage their reputation.

I guess you missed my point completely. By rationalizing the rudeness instead of excelling beyond it.

In Balance Photography wrote:
I think the erroneous thinking here is that by virtue of being a photographer one automatically has a professional relationship with a model.

I don't consider it rude to not to reply to junk mail, or calls from recruiters, or calls from telemarketers. That's because there's no relationship between them and I.

..and when a model doesn't respond to an offer, it could be very well because they think it the equivalent of junk mail. I know that can sting, but that's the reality.

This is how I feel.

Models messaging me travel dates when Ive never talked to them ever is spam IMO. If I want a model I'll cast or do my own search..

Just like castings.. its a casting there is no "call back" unless they want You, period. I reply to the ones I want that replied to my casting, I dont even open messages from the others, they dont make the cut.. I also state this in my castings. "I'll reply if I like your look"

People who get all butt hurt are just whiners. people can call me rude if they want I just tell it like it is.

Miser Photography wrote:
I guess you missed my point completely. By rationalizing the rudeness instead of excelling beyond it.

Oh, you mean "excelling" beyond a common business practice than many others *don't* consider rude?  Your still not grasping the *fact* , that the idea "not responding is rude" is only an *opinion.*  Your never going to get everyone to agree with your *opinion*.

So many successful people here (and elsewhere) are so "rude."  Gosh, I just don't see how all these "rude" people are becoming so successful, and I especially don't see how they can possibly not care what *you* think of their behavior.

KA Style wrote:

This is how I feel.

Models messaging me travel dates when Ive never talked to them ever is spam IMO. If I want a model I'll cast or do my own search..

Just like castings.. its a casting there is no "call back" unless they want You, period. I reply to the ones I want that replied to my casting, I dont even open messages from the others, they dont make the cut.. I also state this in my castings. "I'll reply if I like your look"

People who get all butt hurt are just whiners. people can call me rude if they want I just tell it like it is.

^^^  Yes.

291 wrote:
the no response indicates the choice of working together wasn't yours.

Ah, i think now i am beginning to see, the 'i dont want to work with models who dont answer emails as they are rude and inconsiderate, in fact i block any model who does not respond to me' rants are a way of pretending that the rejected has the control, the model has turned you down and your ego is bruised so you pretend that it is you that is rejecting the stuck up, rude model. It all makes sense, sour grapes.

(General 'you' not aimed at 291)