Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I am a former Ford model. I have been in the industry for 15 years, with a college break. I am only accepting trade portfolio work if the photographer has stronger work than me or a badass concept because at this point, my heart is in it for art's sake. I can usually tell when a photographer had a good model vs just an awesome photographer who could make a plank of wood look like Linda Evangelista! (funny visual) However, I may be off my mark lately because sometimes during a shoot, their idea of creativity is in really poor taste. They think throwing a prop out makes it more interesting but I have been doing this for years, I know that every single object in a photograph must have a purpose. A lot of photographers I've done trade with lately have been upsetting the moral code I pose by.It just feels like I'm doing someone a favor and saving them $1000 on a Ford quality model, who can "pose like a motherf*cker" according to the fashion photographer who shot me today... anybody else misjudge who they were working with and end up regretting a trade shoot on account of quality?
Also, are they delusional about their work or do they just not read my profile?

Harold Rose wrote:
I have hard time accepting the lack of quality in your portfolio..   You would do well to  publish  good proffesional prints and photographs..   Hire you a good professional photographer...

I'm sorry, but WHAT??????????

Harold Rose wrote:

I have hard time accepting the lack of quality in your portfolio..   You would do well to  publish  good proffesional prints and photographs..   Hire you a good professional photographer...

I do believe she's trying to have her portfolio current, and not using images of when she was still at Ford models... prob when she was 13-16? ...as there are photographers and even models who do have images of 10 years ago in their portfolio..

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
@ op. why haven't you tried photographers assistants for folio/test whatever their usually the next up and coming photographers especially if they work for a know photographer.

Very good point! Thanks for the advice! Your work is awesome and I respect your opinion. In my experience, if you keep working for free nobody is every going to hire you unless you attract the right attention.

Rays Fine Art wrote:

Not only have I felt that I was doing the model a favor, I've gone into shoots intending to do the model a favor.  And I've had models knowingly do me a favor by posing with me.  It's just part of the give and take of TF.  Some folks treat it as a way of beefing up their portfolios only and some consider that one possible goal among many.

I often look at portfolios and wonder why anyone in his right mind would put this or that picture up, and I can guarantee that others have had the same view of some of mine (I sometimes open myself up in the critique forums, so believe me, I know! ) Taste is individual, largely a matter of one's experience, and not really teachable, although fortunes have been lost in the attempt to "learn" good taste.  Grandma Moses, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Jackson Pollock, Alberto Vargas and Walt Disney are all artists of stature, but they could all be dismissed as talentless hacks by anyone applying too restrictive a set of criteria.

Judging by your post, you've been around the berry patch often enough to know how to avoid the thorns.   And you've been around the berry patch lpng enough to know that there are always thorns.  Everybody has a bad pose, a bad shot, a bad day whether they're hobbyist photographers or $1,000.00 a shoot Ford models.  And they are all equally likely to be delusional in their evaluation of their work. 

I would assume that they've reviewed your profile and portfolio before contacting you, but if you're having that much of a problem, I have to wonder if you are reviewing theirs before accepting their invitations to shoot.

All IMHO, as always.

EDIT:  After seeing some of OP's subsequent comments--Some folks, models, performers, photographers, painters, etc. are essentially technicians in that they tend to work and think within certain prescribed parameters.  Others are essentially fine artists in that their thinking and way of working are more exploratory and more open to trying things just to see what the results will be.  Not that either approach is intrinsically better or worse than the other, it's a matter of application.  You certainly wouldn't an aircraft designer, for example, to say, "Lets put the engines here and see what happens."

My suggestion to the OP would be to spend some time over a cup of coffee with potential TF collaborators to find out how the other person thinks and works.  If they are too different in their approaches, the shoot is almost always going to be disappointing to one or the other and probably to both.  I know some people think pre-shoot meets are a waste of time, but I've found them to be very valuable.

And still very much IMHO.

Very very good advice, and I will definitely have to incorporate that into the TF work I consider now. Emails, and phone conversation will never compare to that face to face connection. However, scheduling is a big deal and distance too but if they are local and a 5 minute cup of coffee is too much than that would weed out a lot of the bad seeds...I will definitely incorporate that into my selection process. Thanks so much!

T-D-L wrote:
The first thing I noticed:

You're testing with ModelMayhem photographers, and complaining that they aren't living up to your expectations.  Probably because as a "15 year vet from Ford" you were used to testing with photographers of a different breed through the agency.  Can you see why this might be a problem?  I'm also not sure why you'd say it's a "favor" and they're getting a $1k model at no cost.  You do realize that 1k, and even 5k+/day rate models are free of cost if the right photographer just emails the booker to test right?  Sometimes you get 1 or 2 usable photos, sometimes a dozen, just the way it is.  Your former rate for actual gigs is irrelevant, so I would suggest to not think of it as "I'm a former (insert agency here) model, been doing it for (xyz) years and I used to get paid (random #)."  while on MM, those only matter to noobs who are easily impressed. 

Focus your efforts instead on doing what your booker used to do for you, and that is discuss in advance the concept, ask for a mood board, find out info about the team members and look at their work, and then double check the photographers work for consistency.

And to answer your questions:

1) Yes, but it's usually with new makeup artists...but then again, it's only a test so I find ways to work with what I have and make the best out of it despite being disappointed with what I'm given.

2) Delusional doesn't really have anything to do with these disappointing photographers.  If anything it's a lack of communication.  You should ask yourself why during the discussion about concepts for example you haven't brought up how simply involving a prop isn't good enough for you..

Experience definitely matters, I disagree with everything you said regarding that but I do respect your opinion and see where you are coming from and in no way shape or form do I ever expect photographers to be something that another one is. I've been around and learned athing or two. I just haven't quite figured out how to navigate MM yet. And it's been very good to me, I have not had any actual bad experiences on here like I have heard from some girls. I think it's just that I was going into shoots expecting photographers to be their best image in their port, and that isn't always the case. So, yes double checking and an initial meeting is necessary at this point, I think. Thanks so much for your words, I will definitely take them to heart on this one.

JOEL McDONALD wrote:
The problem may be that you're a Ferrari among Fords.

My suggestion is to be far more selective about the photogs you do trades with and go with photogs that have truly interesting and/or well thought out and planned concept shoots.

Check their MM portfolios at the very least to see if they're up to the task of utilizing you to your utmost potential.

Words of wisdom, my friend! :-) Well, spoken.

Harold Rose wrote:

I have hard time accepting the lack of quality in your portfolio..   You would do well to  publish  good proffesional prints and photographs..   Hire you a good professional photographer...

The fact that you do not use correct grammar and cannot even spell professional speaks volumes.

Now...
The photographers in my portfolio shoot A list celebrities, bands, top models, campaigns, galleries, and everything in between. One of them works with David Lachapelle, one with Michael Bay, and one is personal friends with Brad Pitt. I am LUCKY that they choose to shoot me for fun and have been truly honored to work with them. I couldn't afford them if I took out a loan! ;-) But I definitely believe that for aspiring models, paying a photographer who is a full time photographer by profession with published work in the magazines, books, and art galleries she wants to be in will be very beneficial to her career. My post was about my experience with misjudging the quality of trade shoots that were meant for portfolio use and artistic concepts. I was simply wondering if other models/photographers have made the same mistakes on their trade shoots.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Actually, I love Amanda.  She is a wonderful model and great to work with.  In my view, what she is running into is a bit of reality.  It is hard to know who will deliver something you need.  Portfolios are filled with people's best work (or at least that they want to show).  It is hard to say what they do day in and day out.  Likewise, there is no way to know what the chemistry is going to be.

I am remembered of an article I read some years back written by one of Arnie Frietag's apprentice assistants.  He dreamed of being a photographer and eventually went on to become a writer instead.   He explained how he would shoot things or come up with ideas and take them to Arnie for critique.  He rarely got the feedback he expected.  More often than not, the reply was "good try, go back and rethink it."

I think that Amanda has a genuine frustration that I have seen often throughout the years.  It is a real problem, but there is no real solution.  Most people here shoot for fun.  Amanda's gotten to work in the show.  Now she has to learn to deal with the world of MM.

She will do well.  She's a great model.

Thank you so much. It's easy for some people to say what they want while sitting behind a keyboard and not knowing that I bust out 110% on my shoots, whether it's the first time they picked up a camera or the millionth. I've just learned to be more selective.

KonstantKarma wrote:
If you feel like you have information to teach, and photographers could use instruction, why not host educational workshops?

You'd get your rush of creating art, have more control over the situation, and charge a few bucks. Your clients would be less-than-perfect photographers but if you're just looking to make the world prettier though art it should be fun anyway.

This sounds like a great idea. If I was a photographer I would really love to learn how to get better with working with models from a model's point of view.